Keith isn’t the Keith of four or five years ago but on a contending team I can see him as a solid second pairing guy who is on the first penalty killing unit. On Chicago he’s basically playing on a third rate or rebuilding team. I think his mistakes are a combination of his distaste of having a rebuild thrust on him, his age obviously and the fact there are so many non NHL caliber players on the roster. I watched Florida take advantage of the fact Keith had few or no pass options and pounded the crap out if him. Look at Kane, without some solid line mates he’s not the player he was last season either. The best player in the NHL, Connor McDavid makes allot of dumb mistakes because he’s surrounded by so many lousy team mates.

I’d like to see Keith, Kane and possibly Toews moved to put the glory days behind us, to capture cap space and to get as many draft picks and prospects as possible.
- paulr

If they are truly unhappy, it is entirely in their hands whether they are moved or not. These two can get solid return for their services at their contract numbers. Seabrook and Toews, obviously that is not an option (at least right now).

There are exceptions, but I’d classify CC as an elite goalie in his prime, and he was in net for 2 Cups. Detroit thought it was important enough to go get Hasek, who may be the best goalie to ever live.

Good goaltending gives you a chance every night.
- scottak

CC is a great example. First, the team was loaded, then they added him.

Last year's Bolts - great team built, then added the Russian.

Previous winners - excellent team built, added Binnington.

Not saying a solid goalie ain't important - and I was always a CC guy - but teams don't start with a goalie and then build around him. Canadians are still trying to build around Price, and The King got old waiting for the build.

I’d rather have Lehner. And I thought that was a reason Stan picked him up when he did, to have a high end NHL goalie in place to fall back on if he decided to move on from CC. They can afford the $5M CAP hit.

You build a team from the net out.
- scottak

Problem was more timing than anything. When they were negotiating with Lehner's agent and the TDL happened, Covid hadn't happened yet.

No increase in the Cap due to Covid brought Lehner's demands down to $5M. Before that he was looking for between $7-$8M according to "rumors".

Owen Power, D from Michigan. Who the red wings are getting.
- wingz4life

Already fixing the balls are they?

I think the biggest problem is it feels like the Hawks are in the first year of a re build that should be in its 3rd or 4th year. I read a hockey writers article on the top 100 prospects not in the nhl as of the end of last season.
The Hawks had one Reichal (I believe in the 50's). That's not good and sorry that falls on Bowman . As bad as we have been there should more then one. I know we have Dach and Boquist but in the nhl but most teams have good young players on their roster too.
Wiz ,Theo and others do you agree that the Hawks prospects are far behind other teams?
- HamiltonHawk

There are two things that compound this. First, is that up until this offseason, the Hawks were still trying to ice a truly competitive team. Don't get me wrong, they've turned over an enormous number of players in the last three years, but they were still doing it with the playoffs in mind (whether that was the outward impression or not).

Your best prospects are typically the highest draft choices. In the last 5 drafts the Hawks' highest picks have been:

Reichel
Dach
Boqvist
Jokiharju
ADB

All but Reichel are in the NHL right now and having varying degrees of success. Dach was the highest pick at #3, ADB was the lowest at pick #39.

The second picks from those drafts are as follows:
Commesso
Vlasic
Beaudin
Mitchell
Krys

Beaudin and Mitchell are either playing or on the taxi squad. Kyrs is starting to come into his own. Commesso and Vlasic are still in College and need some seasoning.

The difference between the Hawks and a lot of other teams right now is that they forced the younger guys into the lineup (or were forced to). How many high end rookies are in TB's lineup (or any other top rated team)?

Do they need more high end prospects? Sure, but they were still in the mode of trading away high picks at the TDL to acquire ready players as recently as 2016. Not to mention they had been picking at the later ends of rounds for years before that. I'm not saying it doesn't suck. It just is what it is.

Accurate. Although, I don't see them as "trying" to get the #1 overall pick, that will likely be around where they are picking. I said before the season started, I will have very specific purposes for watching the team this year because they will likley not be competing for the PO's. I want to see which young players rise to the top and see some progress in playing together as a team instead of 5 individuals on the ice.

BTW... Blackhawks and Flyers fan? 2010 must have either been euphoria or torture for you.
- Chunk

I believe we could see TDL action this year. Guys like Soderberg, the Walbergs, Shaw, Murphy, de Haan, and Strome could go for picks/prospects. Probably anyone who is not going to be here when they're good again in several years.

I also hope they use the LTIR space as a weapon. They have a chance to get their own very high pick this year, and add a bunch of picks/prospects. Imo, if they don't, Stan will have failed.

There are two things that compound this. First, is that up until this offseason, the Hawks were still trying to ice a truly competitive team. Don't get me wrong, they've turned over an enormous number of players in the last three years, but they were still doing it with the playoffs in mind (whether that was the outward impression or not).

Your best prospects are typically the highest draft choices. In the last 5 drafts the Hawks' highest picks have been:

Reichel
Dach
Boqvist
Jokiharju
ADB

All but Reichel are in the NHL right now and having varying degrees of success. Dach was the highest pick at #3, ADB was the lowest at pick #39.

The second picks from those drafts are as follows:
Commesso
Vlasic
Beaudin
Mitchell
Krys

Beaudin and Mitchell are either playing or on the taxi squad. Kyrs is starting to come into his own. Commesso and Vlasic are still in College and need some seasoning.

The difference between the Hawks and a lot of other teams right now is that they forced the younger guys into the lineup (or were forced to). How many high end rookies are in TB's lineup (or any other top rated team)?

Do they need more high end prospects? Sure, but they were still in the mode of trading away high picks at the TDL to acquire ready players as recently as 2016. Not to mention they had been picking at the later ends of rounds for years before that. I'm not saying it doesn't suck. It just is what it is.
- Chunk

Beating a dead horse you are correct and it's been said multiple times in the past. No blame game is going to rationalize us to an otherwise different position.

Problem was more timing than anything. When they were negotiating with Lehner's agent and the TDL happened, Covid hadn't happened yet.

No increase in the Cap due to Covid brought Lehner's demands down to $5M. Before that he was looking for between $7-$8M according to "rumors".
- HawkintheD

The problem is that Lehner makes them artificially better right now. There is only one reason to get him now - to be better right now. That gets them to mediocrity. That's the McD route. He got fired.

Lehner would move them up to a team that still misses the playoffs; at the cost of several spots in the draft order for every round. For what? So some impatient internet fans will feel better about today's team?

There are two things that compound this. First, is that up until this offseason, the Hawks were still trying to ice a truly competitive team. Don't get me wrong, they've turned over an enormous number of players in the last three years, but they were still doing it with the playoffs in mind (whether that was the outward impression or not).

Your best prospects are typically the highest draft choices. In the last 5 drafts the Hawks' highest picks have been:

Reichel
Dach
Boqvist
Jokiharju
ADB

All but Reichel are in the NHL right now and having varying degrees of success. Dach was the highest pick at #3, ADB was the lowest at pick #39.

The second picks from those drafts are as follows:
Commesso
Vlasic
Beaudin
Mitchell
Krys

Beaudin and Mitchell are either playing or on the taxi squad. Kyrs is starting to come into his own. Commesso and Vlasic are still in College and need some seasoning.

The difference between the Hawks and a lot of other teams right now is that they forced the younger guys into the lineup (or were forced to). How many high end rookies are in TB's lineup (or any other top rated team)?

Do they need more high end prospects? Sure, but they were still in the mode of trading away high picks at the TDL to acquire ready players as recently as 2016. Not to mention they had been picking at the later ends of rounds for years before that. I'm not saying it doesn't suck. It just is what it is.
- Chunk

This is a really good analysis. What the Hawks have been missing is a generational talent (or talents) to replace Kane, Toews, and Keith. Franchises are lucky to get one, and the Hawks got three. It is too soon to tell if any of their current roster of young players are that calibre or not. We just need to accept the "pain" of watching them grow up. Sustaining excellence is really hard. We just are not there yet.

This is a really good analysis. What the Hawks have been missing is a generational talent (or talents) to replace Kane, Toews, and Keith. Franchises are lucky to get one, and the Hawks got three. It is too soon to tell if any of their current roster of young players are that calibre or not. We just need to accept the "pain" of watching them grow up. Sustaining excellence is really hard. We just are not there yet.
- hpk90

This is 100% accurate, especially the bolded.

This is 100% accurate, especially the bolded.
- mohel

we did have panarin. and we have $1mil retained and a #5 D to show for it.

we did have panarin. and we have $1mil retained and a #5 D to show for it.
- kmw4631

He arrived during the maintenance portion of the cycle, and was too old to be able to be part of the rebuild. He'll be 30 in October, and 32 when it matters. The Hawks need great players 10 years younger than Panarin.

The problem is that Lehner makes them artificially better right now. There is only one reason to get him now - to be better right now. That gets them to mediocrity. That's the McD route. He got fired.

Lehner would move them up to a team that still misses the playoffs; at the cost of several spots in the draft order for every round. For what? So some impatient internet fans will feel better about today's team?
- mohel

Agree. With the ups come the downs and a true fan of this game as it exists today understands this and sucks it up.

The problem is that Lehner makes them artificially better right now. There is only one reason to get him now - to be better right now. That gets them to mediocrity. That's the McD route. He got fired.

Lehner would move them up to a team that still misses the playoffs; at the cost of several spots in the draft order for every round. For what? So some impatient internet fans will feel better about today's team?
- mohel

I agree and am glad they traded him for a 2nd rounder and Subban. While the rebuild was questioned because there wasn't a total teardown, the unintended benefit of Toews unfortunate news and Dach's injury will likely still get what most agree would be best for the team...a top 3-5 pick.

Afa trading all those guys you mentioned, I hope they are able to flip guys for picks/prospects but could also see a virtually non-existent trade market panning out due to the Pandemic and everything that goes along with it.

Agree. With the ups come the downs and a true fan of this game as it exists today understands this and sucks it up.
- 6628

Hello, 66. Just watched the TV series Yellowstone. They had a phrase - "Cowboy Up".

I agree and am glad they traded him for a 2nd rounder and Subban. While the rebuild was questioned because there wasn't a total teardown, the unintended benefit of Toews unfortunate news and Dach's injury will likely still get what most agree would be best for the team...a top 3-5 pick.

Afa trading all those guys you mentioned, I hope they are able to flip guys for picks/prospects but could also see a virtually non-existent trade market panning out due to the Pandemic and everything that goes along with it.
- HawkintheD

I still think teams will trade at the deadline - the allure of Cup glory is strong.

I don't think all those guys will go, but some will, I hope. Also Murphy and Strome can be had in the off-season, before the draft.

This Friday a titanic clash will take place. Two original six foes. Chicago vs. Detroit. The first match up in a season long battle for hockey's most important trophy, who will get the #1 lottery pick?

Theo, no mention of Kurashev? Looking hard for bright spots, but I think he is one. I like the line of Strome, Kubalik, and Kurashev. Hope they are kept together for awhile, they seem to have some chemistry.

BTW, no matter how slow Strome is, he is the only forward on the team 5 on 5 who is making any plays in the offensive zone
- LAHawk

I like the line of Strome, Kubalik, and Kurashev actually. Agree that Kurashev has played well. He has defensive awareness and can generate offense.

Strome has been much better this season. As you pointed out, he's really the only player setting up plays on offense at ES, even compared to Kane.

Like DeBrincat, Kubalik is getting his chances more and more to shoot the puck. Kubalik needs to help create his own fortune, too. He'll come around.

Theo- With Keith, could it be that he is just out of position more and not managing gaps, or could it be that is how he always played, but had the ability earlier in his career to close better because of his speed?
- RaleighHawk

I think Keith's quickness is fine and think it's poor gap management and decision making. Many of his errors are of his own doing so blame can't be passed to babysitting an inexperienced partner (not saying you said this but this reason has come up in the past).

I think the biggest problem is it feels like the Hawks are in the first year of a re build that should be in its 3rd or 4th year. I read a hockey writers article on the top 100 prospects not in the nhl as of the end of last season.
The Hawks had one Reichal (I believe in the 50's). That's not good and sorry that falls on Bowman . As bad as we have been there should more then one. I know we have Dach and Boquist but in the nhl but most teams have good young players on their roster too.
Wiz ,Theo and others do you agree that the Hawks prospects are far behind other teams?
- HamiltonHawk

Chunk had a nice breakdown earlier of the Hawks top two picks in the past 5 years.

To answer yor question, I don't think the Hawks are terribly behind as pundits make it out to be.

Many of these same pundits also claim Quenneville is a top prospect. He's just closest to the NHL but that doesn't mean he's a top prospect who will be part of the long-term future in Chicago.

Are the Hawks top 5 or 10 in the league for prospect pools? No, but I don't think they're in the bottom third either. Middle third it is.

If the currency of best pipelines is sheer number of blue chip talent, then the Hawks are no where near that.

But the Oilers have had that type of pipeline yet haven't come close to being a Cup contender.

Agree with the post and hoping to see some of the same things you are. This year's a throw away year, other than looking for some young players to develop or continue developing.

The bolded cracked me up. Keith hasn't been good but he's not quite Kimmo bad yet.
- HawkintheD

hahah....not saying he's Kimmo but he's the guy I think they would be open to dealing who could fetch a decent return. Playoff battle tested, top 4 d men usually get a hefty return from desperate GMs around deadline time....and Keith has a very sweet cap hit, so Bowman could possibly leverage that on his asking return.

Outside of that....agreed. Top 5 pick, if not a top 3 pick, and ride the wave of what will be an up/down year with young guy's progressing.

Keith isn’t the Keith of four or five years ago but on a contending team I can see him as a solid second pairing guy who is on the first penalty killing unit. On Chicago he’s basically playing on a third rate or rebuilding team. I think his mistakes are a combination of his distaste of having a rebuild thrust on him, his age obviously and the fact there are so many non NHL caliber players on the roster. I watched Florida take advantage of the fact Keith had few or no pass options and pounded the crap out if him. Look at Kane, without some solid line mates he’s not the player he was last season either. The best player in the NHL, Connor McDavid makes allot of dumb mistakes because he’s surrounded by so many lousy team mates.

I’d like to see Keith, Kane and possibly Toews moved to put the glory days behind us, to capture cap space and to get as many draft picks and prospects as possible.
- paulr

I dont disagree and why I respectfully debated those last year on this board who said it was the player's "right" to retire and play out their deals as they wish. Sure....for those who NTCs, and NMCs but Bowman got Campbell to waive and at some point some of these guys on the tail end of their careers will get fed up with the losing and want another shot at winning. I mean outside of 2007-08 Toews/Kane really dont' know losing, except for a random season here or there.

This is a on full rebuild.

Out of the 3, Kane gets you the most back....but I don't see any GM being able to navigate a 10.5 cap hit in season. That's likely an offseason move where they make that work.

I also think Keith, like you said, isn't what he was but he's still a lot better than most contenders have in their 4-6 slots and with his cap hit....he's an attractive piece to add.

Toews....I fear his deal will end up like Seabrook's. It's going to be tough to move and I love Johnny Toews like all of us do, but for his cap hit and what he gives on a nightly basis....that's a tough add. That's before you even look at his injury/illness history and I just don't see it.

The problem is that Lehner makes them artificially better right now. There is only one reason to get him now - to be better right now. That gets them to mediocrity. That's the McD route. He got fired.

Lehner would move them up to a team that still misses the playoffs; at the cost of several spots in the draft order for every round. For what? So some impatient internet fans will feel better about today's team?
- mohel

I've never done the review to see who says "they need to tank for the number 1" and cross-reference that against who is upset with how they are playing. It's not to point fingers or anything, but I just find it funny that people complain that people get upset about getting what they want because it is not gotten "how" they want.

I, along with everyone else, would like to see competence, and solid hockey. Well, competence and solid hockey wins more games. We have a mish-mosh of players on this team, one top-6ish center, with three not-so-appealing options in goal.

Yup... it's gonna suck for a while.

What I do find heartening is that a lot of the younger guys are showing up and playing quite well. Mitchell, Suter, ADB, Highmore, Kurashev, all look like they are putting in the effort and generally in the right place doing the right things. They all need to clean certain things up, but I'm happy with that aspect.

I dont disagree and why I respectfully debated those last year on this board who said it was the player's "right" to retire and play out their deals as they wish. Sure....for those who NTCs, and NMCs but Bowman got Campbell to waive and at some point some of these guys on the tail end of their careers will get fed up with the losing and want another shot at winning. I mean outside of 2007-08 Toews/Kane really dont' know losing, except for a random season here or there.

This is a on full rebuild.

Out of the 3, Kane gets you the most back....but I don't see any GM being able to navigate a 10.5 cap hit in season. That's likely an offseason move where they make that work.

I also think Keith, like you said, isn't what he was but he's still a lot better than most contenders have in their 4-6 slots and with his cap hit....he's an attractive piece to add.

Toews....I fear his deal will end up like Seabrook's. It's going to be tough to move and I love Johnny Toews like all of us do, but for his cap hit and what he gives on a nightly basis....that's a tough add. That's before you even look at his injury/illness history and I just don't see it.
- SteveRain

First question on Toews is whether he can play again.

He arrived during the maintenance portion of the cycle, and was too old to be able to be part of the rebuild. He'll be 30 in October, and 32 when it matters. The Hawks need great players 10 years younger than Panarin.
- mohel

I am trying to be realistic in how many years I think it will take for them to be a playoff team again, legit, where it will be a constant push. Including this year....I think I am at 3-4 years.

I was very excited to see Dach....the Dach we saw precovid vs the Dach we saw in the summer was night and day. I am hopeful there will be another jump once he gets his wrist mended.