yes, you are so much cooler than babcock...
- MaximusAurelius

Probably, since badcock is one of the dullest individuals in the nhl.


But yeah not surprised YOU got that out of what I said.

He’s actually doing a good job all on his own. Why is this so hard to acknowledge? They pair together well but Muzzin isn’t all over the place covering up for Holl.
- Canada Cup

I would say Holl has only ever looked good with Muzzin though.

We saw the same thing last year. Holl looked good for a stretch paired with Muzzin, got himself the contract, and then struggled when Muzzin got hurt.

He is a bottom pairing defenseman who can play in the top 4 with the right partner. Worth 2 million in my books all day.

Holl has been playing really well considering his qualities (he's a bottom pairing D).
Let's not pretend he's Heiskanen or Provorov though.
- MaximusAurelius

He was scratched for 71 freaking games by Babcock. Think about what a big, strong defensive RH D would have done for us earlier.

And he's signed for 1.8 per AND Dubas found him in the ECHL

He was scratched for 71 freaking games by Babcock. Think about what a big, strong defensive RH D would have done for us earlier.

And he's signed for 1.8 per AND Dubas found him in the ECHL
- RogerRoeper

he's not strong defensively.
he's just ok.
and yes - Dubas is God's second son for sure

he's not strong defensively.
he's just ok.
and yes - Dubas is God's second son for sure
- MaximusAurelius

What?


He's been more than solid defensively. The eye test says so, the stats say so.


How has he not been strong defensively?

Top 4 have been good. Even Dermott and Bogo have been less horrible. Overall defensive commitment is improving. 9 GA in first two games and 10 in last five.

Too bad that doesn’t fit the overall Leafs D or Freddie (choose one) narrative
- Canada Cup

I'll chose the former rather than the latter.

Fun fact: Auston Matthews has 161 career goals. Tyler Bozak has 162 career goals.



Should’ve drafted Dubois, so we could’ve traded for Laine.
- Steven_Seagull

I wish we could have done that, because then Craig Button/Anthony Stewart would have said we have the best center depth in the North/league

What?


He's been more than solid defensively. The eye test says so, the stats say so.


How has he not been strong defensively?
- burn

I think he has improved this year. I feel like his blocked shots are up this year. Seems to be doing more. I think id still like a top 2 dmen in trade to push him down the lineup, but im just being greedy

he's not strong defensively.
he's just ok.
and yes - Dubas is God's second son for sure
- MaximusAurelius

HIs defensive analytics are amongst the best in the NHL...

Leafs have their big, shutdown D pair and they are damn good.

I would say Holl has only ever looked good with Muzzin though.

We saw the same thing last year. Holl looked good for a stretch paired with Muzzin, got himself the contract, and then struggled when Muzzin got hurt.

He is a bottom pairing defenseman who can play in the top 4 with the right partner. Worth 2 million in my books all day.
- Leafs43

Well since he has the right partner, it’s a good shut down pairing. Leafs are in trouble if Muzzin is hurt. Leafs are in trouble if Rielly is hurt. Leafs are in trouble (to a slightly less degree) if Brodie is hurt and I’m not sure who could step in and do what Holl is doing with Muzzin right now

LOL I am still reading comments about Andersen "Bailing-out" the Leafs. Jesus..

Leafs-.8th fewest avg shots against

Andersen-save % .898

What?


He's been more than solid defensively. The eye test says so, the stats say so.


How has he not been strong defensively?
- burn

Just ignore him Burn.

As near as I can tell, going back to last year, Holl is being criticized for not being Lidstrom or Pronger or Niedermayer. The guy got a ridiculous amount of blame for the 5 game loss to CBJ. Some people even went so far to say he was overpaid at 2 million.

I honestly don't know what some people are watching.

Just ignore him Burn.

As near as I can tell, going back to last year, Holl is being criticized for not being Lidstrom or Pronger or Niedermayer. The guy got a ridiculous amount of blame for the 5 game loss to CBJ. Some people even went so far to say he was overpaid at 2 million.

I honestly don't know what some people are watching.
- Aetherial

In the offseason we had to hear Dubas "Overpaid": Holl. ROTFL. 1.8 per and he's in his prime.

First Dubas signs him from the ECHL, they win a Calder. Then signs him in the NHL for a cheap deal. And the guy is big. I thought Dubas hated big guys?

Dubas brought in 2 big, guys who are strong defensively and area top shutdown pair in MUzzin and Holl

NY Islanders are 30th in GF, yet spend more on forwards than the Leafs.

NY Islanders are 30th in GF, yet spend more on forwards than the Leafs.
- RogerRoeper

Is it random fact day already?

In the offseason we had to hear Dubas "Overpaid": Holl. ROTFL. 1.8 per and he's in his prime.

First Dubas signs him from the ECHL, they win a Calder. Then signs him in the NHL for a cheap deal. And the guy is big. I thought Dubas hated big guys?

Dubas brought in 2 big, guys who are strong defensively and area top shutdown pair in MUzzin and Holl
- RogerRoeper

It's 2 million. Still a fine a deal.

Is it random fact day already?
- Scabeh

Yes, random facts. No playoffs for them. And they arv old and in cap hell. And Devon Toews looks great

Is it random fact day already?
- Scabeh

It's always "random facts that support my biases and narratives" day.

It's always "random facts that support my biases and narratives" day.
- Leafs43

In fairness, is me looking at that roster and saying that's not a good team biased?

Just ignore him Burn.

As near as I can tell, going back to last year, Holl is being criticized for not being Lidstrom or Pronger or Niedermayer. The guy got a ridiculous amount of blame for the 5 game loss to CBJ. Some people even went so far to say he was overpaid at 2 million.

I honestly don't know what some people are watching.
- Aetherial

Guy is making 2mil which is league avg, based on the last 2 years playing in the top 4 as a shutdown pair he's been decidedly more than average. Not sure what more people want or expect.


He's been very good.

It's always "random facts that support my biases and narratives" day.
- Leafs43

I see.

Well a flying squirrel can hover a distance of over 40 meters.

And that's why the Canucks are going to have a difficult season.

In fairness, is me looking at that roster and saying that's not a good team biased?
- RogerRoeper

Their results in the last two years compared to the Leafs should probably tell you to take a step back before saying stuff like that, yes.

Their results in the last two years compared to the Leafs should probably tell you to take a step back before saying stuff like that, yes.
- Scabeh

That kind of thinking is what made Canuck fans say they had the best team in the North division.

Irrelevant. It's about the now and that's a poor roster.

Leafs are better than the Islanders. No one is taking that roster over the Leafs,.

In fairness, is me looking at that roster and saying that's not a good team biased?
- RogerRoeper

I'm not biased.

But everything Dubas does is great and everything Lou Lamoriello does is bad and nobody is ever fair to the Leafs but I am fair to everyone.

I'm not biased.

But everything Dubas does is great and everything Lou Lamoriello does is bad and nobody is ever fair to the Leafs but I am fair to everyone.
- Leafs43