Chlapik has played on the PK in both NHL and AHL and been really good in both leagues. He’s arguably the best defensive forward prospect in our system. White has also killed penalties the last couple of years, and hasn’t been awful.
- sensarmy_11

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Neither Chlapik or White has played any kind of significant PK time in the NHL... least of all Chlapik... so I have no idea where you're getting that impression. This is a summary of their games played/SH ice time for the past 3 seasons (nhl.com)...

Filip Chlapik
2017/18 20GP, 0:00min/GP (SH)
2018/19 5GP, 0:00min/GP (SH)
2019/20 31GP, 0:01min/GP (SH)

Colin White
2017/18 21GP, 0:02min/GP (SH)
2018/19 71GP, 0:13min/GP (SH)
2019/20 61GP, 0:01min/GP (SH)

For reference, 0:13min/GP is nothing close to regular SH time... over a dozen forwards played more SH ice time than that in 2018/19, including Formenton during his 9GP stint as an 18year-old. That's exactly why Paquette/Watson are playing the actual PK in the actual NHL, because they actually have proven they can. Now, I don't disagree that White and Chlapik could be developing into that role - but there's literally no evidence whatsoever to suggest they're at that point right now.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Neither Chlapik or White has played any kind of significant PK time in the NHL... least of all Chlapik... so I have no idea where you're getting that impression. This is a summary of their games played/SH ice time for the past 3 seasons (nhl.com)...

Filip Chlapik
2017/18 20GP, 0:00min/GP (SH)
2018/19 5GP, 0:00min/GP (SH)
2019/20 31GP, 0:01min/GP (SH)

Colin White
2017/18 21GP, 0:02min/GP (SH)
2018/19 71GP, 0:13min/GP (SH)
2019/20 61GP, 0:01min/GP (SH)

For reference, 0:13min/GP is nothing close to regular SH time... Formenton got more SH min/GP than that in his 9GP stint 2 seasons ago. That's exactly why Paquette/Watson are playing the actual PK in the actual NHL, because they actually have proven they can. Now, I don't disagree that White and Chlapik could be developing into that role - but there's literally no evidence whatsoever to suggest they're at that point right now.
- khawk

My bad, I thought they played PK in the NHL. Chlapik did in the AHL for sure, and was very good.

Now to your point, that Paquette and Watson have proven they can play the PK......the team is rocking a 75% pk.....so really, how much worse would it be with players who were actually good players.

Paquette and Watson are not NHL caliber players.........PERIOD

Surprisingly, no.

Man, are we supposed to be happy with a boner that Nick Paul is doing well. Really? I'm not singling out your statement but I can't believe we are using Nick Paul as a standard. I get that we waited with him and it's worked out but the guy is 26 years old and has a career high of 20 pts. lol. Like we need to see the centers develop here with White, Norris, and LOGAN BROWN, otherwise that's a failed pick and we need to call things as we see them.

Personally I like Galchenyuk, Watson in. I'm not sold on Paquette and Anisimov. Those 2 are just plugs for IF White and L.Brown get and take adv of their spots
- AlfieisKing

Why is it ridiculous to use Nick Paul as an example of being patient with a prospect? I'm not sure why it is seen as outrageous. He's actually been one of the most consistent players so far. He did not have a easy road solidifying an NHL spot. I said he was a top 9 forward. Not a star or anything. Do enlighten me. You are complaining about young players not getting NHL ice time. I presented an example of a similar prospect who had a tough road to get such ice time who now has it.

My bad, I thought they played PK in the NHL. Chlapik did in the AHL for sure, and was very good.

Now to your point, that Paquette and Watson have proven they can play the PK......the team is rocking a 75% pk.....so really, how much worse would it be with players who were actually good players.

Paquette and Watson are not NHL caliber players.........PERIOD
- sensarmy_11

19th in the league, so it could be worse. Also important to note PK and PP percentage fluctuates massively in the early goings of a season.

Patrik Laine - 306 GP, 250 P
Pierre-Luc Dubois - 239 GP, 159 P
Mikhail Sergachev - 232 GP, 107 P (stanley cup)

Laine was taken 9 spots ahead of Logan Brown
Dubois was taken 8 spots ahead of Logan Brown
Sergachev..... only 2

L.Brown is 40th in games played from that draft despite being drafted 11th
- AlfieisKing

We must put him in because other players have played more games!!! Do you think DJ Smith and Pierre Dorion are aware of this, man? Can you give them a call?!?! Maybe a text? I see Dorion on his phone during most games. This is outrageous! This has never, ever happened before in the history of prospect development. Won't someone think of the children!!




L. Brown hasn't been able solidified a spot on one of the worst rosters in the NHL. Maybe, just maybe, he isn't as good as we hoped when we drafted him? Or is that a ridiculous statement and all of the Sens prospects are guaranteed greatness?

19th in the league, so it could be worse. Also important to note PK and PP percentage fluctuates massively in the early goings of a season.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Sure. But if the ONLY reason you have Paquette and Watson in the lineup, as opposed to actual good players, is the 2-3 minutes a game they play on the PK.......if MICH rather have players in there who may be slightly worse on the PK, but who aren’t MASSIVE liabilities at all other times in the game.

The ONLY thing Paquette and Watson bring is below average penalty killing abilities......that’s it, that’s all they’re able to contribute.

Why is it ridiculous to use Nick Paul as an example of being patient with a prospect? I'm not sure why it is seen as outrageous. He's actually been one of the most consistent players so far. He did not have a easy road solidifying an NHL spot. I said he was a top 9 forward. Not a star or anything. Do enlighten me. You are complaining about young players not getting NHL ice time. I presented an example of a similar prospect who had a tough road to get such ice time who now has it.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

People don't want to associate the wait for the better prospects with a player who was 25 before seeing time in the Nhl. Even if it a real possibility.

And while you are right that fans over value their prospects and underestimate the road to the NHL, most of the players we're talking about put up much better numbers at younger ages than Paul ever did.

Whether that means will be anyone's guess.

Sure. But if the ONLY reason you have Paquette and Watson in the lineup, as opposed to actual good players, is the 2-3 minutes a game they play on the PK.......if MICH rather have players in there who may be slightly worse on the PK, but who aren’t MASSIVE liabilities at all other times in the game.

The ONLY thing Paquette and Watson bring is below average penalty killing abilities......that’s it, that’s all they’re able to contribute.
- sensarmy_11

So we are replacing them with slightly better offensive players playing similar minutes and having a worse PK?

While your argument has merit you are failing to see the argument to play guys who are better in areas you seem to not take as of importance.

Watson I feel has played alright. I like his hustle on the PK and when he is out there 5 on 5. I think he will be there for the majority of the season. I tend to agree with Paquette. I don't love his game so far but has the intangibles to be a decent 4th liner. Now that he is injured, he might find himself on the outside looking in, especially with Stuzle coming back into the lineup.

People don't want to associate the wait for the better prospects with a player who was 25 before seeing time in the Nhl. Even if it a real possibility.

And while you are right that fans over value their prospects and underestimate the road to the NHL, most of the players we're talking about put up much better numbers at younger ages than Paul ever did.

Whether that means will be anyone's guess.
- david22

Decent points. Just makes guys like Logan Brown look even worse. I was providing an example to make him look a little better.

Some fans just can't admit a prospect might be a bust until we sign them to a dumb deal and trade them for next to nothing.

So we are replacing them with slightly better offensive players playing similar minutes and having a worse PK?

While your argument has merit you are failing to see the argument to play guys who are better in areas you seem to not take as of importance.

Watson I feel has played alright. I like his hustle on the PK and when he is out there 5 on 5. I think he will be there for the majority of the season. I tend to agree with Paquette. I don't love his game so far but has the intangibles to be a decent 4th liner. Now that he is injured, he might find himself on the outside looking in, especially with Stuzle coming back into the lineup.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

You’re replacing them with prospects who need to be given ice time and a chance to develop.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Neither Chlapik or White has played any kind of significant PK time in the NHL... least of all Chlapik... so I have no idea where you're getting that impression. This is a summary of their games played/SH ice time for the past 3 seasons (nhl.com)...

Filip Chlapik
2017/18 20GP, 0:00min/GP (SH)
2018/19 5GP, 0:00min/GP (SH)
2019/20 31GP, 0:01min/GP (SH)

Colin White
2017/18 21GP, 0:02min/GP (SH)
2018/19 71GP, 0:13min/GP (SH)
2019/20 61GP, 0:01min/GP (SH)

For reference, 0:13min/GP is nothing close to regular SH time... over a dozen forwards played more SH ice time than that in 2018/19, including Formenton during his 9GP stint as an 18year-old. That's exactly why Paquette/Watson are playing the actual PK in the actual NHL, because they actually have proven they can. Now, I don't disagree that White and Chlapik could be developing into that role - but there's literally no evidence whatsoever to suggest they're at that point right now.
- khawk

Maybe we can start our own Sens-goggles-free group for the next few days....

Decent points. Just makes guys like Logan Brown look even worse. I was providing an example to make him look a little better.

Some fans just can't admit a prospect might be a bust until we sign them to a dumb deal and trade them for next to nothing.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

The kid has been phenomenal in the AHL, but has only been given limited games, with mostly 4th line plugs as linemates......how can you call him a bust when he hasn’t been given a real chance.

In his 20 or so games last year, he got about 10mins per game, with plugs as linemates, and still put up 10pts. Batherson put up the same amount of pts, in roughly the same amount of games, playing 5 mins per game more, and with better linemates.

Say whatever you want about camp, but until the kid is given an actual chance to play in games, with actual decent linemates, you can’t suggest he’s a bust.

Maybe we can start our own Sens-goggles-free group for the next few days....
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Will this group be looked at through glasses that are perennially half empty?

Maybe we can start our own Sens-goggles-free group for the next few days....
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

You should, and take that granpa guy with you

The kid has been phenomenal in the AHL, but has only been given limited games, with mostly 4th line plugs as linemates......how can you call him a bust when he hasn’t been given a real chance.

In his 20 or so games last year, he got about 10mins per game, with plugs as linemates, and still put up 10pts. Batherson put up the same amount of pts, in roughly the same amount of games, playing 5 mins per game more, and with better linemates.

Say whatever you want about camp, but until the kid is given an actual chance to play in games, with actual decent linemates, you can’t suggest he’s a bust.
- sensarmy_11

I flip back and forth on this. I see his numbers in the AHL, and think he should be able to make the team. Then once again he fails to make the team.

And it bears mentioning that Batherson and Norris both managed to make the team (and are younger), so it can't just be a thing against prospects.

The kid has been phenomenal in the AHL, but has only been given limited games, with mostly 4th line plugs as linemates......how can you call him a bust when he hasn’t been given a real chance.

In his 20 or so games last year, he got about 10mins per game, with plugs as linemates, and still put up 10pts. Batherson put up the same amount of pts, in roughly the same amount of games, playing 5 mins per game more, and with better linemates.

Say whatever you want about camp, but until the kid is given an actual chance to play in games, with actual decent linemates, you can’t suggest he’s a bust.
- sensarmy_11

He might be a bust, as time goes on, it looks more and more that way. I won't call him one yet. However, good centres make players around them better. If he needs skilled wingers to look any good, then that concerns me. That's exactly what has happened with Colin White. Gets to play with Mark Stone, puts up good numbers. No more Mark Stone, is numbers take a hit. Now can't even crack the lineup regularly.

There is still time for guys like Brown, etc to get their chance. There isn't any weird conspiracy against young players. If you are good enough, you will find a way to play. Stay patient buddy.

I flip back and forth on this. I see his numbers in the AHL, and think he should be able to make the team. Then once again he fails to make the team.

And it bears mentioning that Batherson and Norris both managed to make the team (and are younger), so it can't just be a thing against prospects.
- david22

he looked good in his NHL games last year, didn't look out of place at all. he was great in the AHL.

if they give him a legit shot and he sucks, then so be it.......but if they're just going to let him rot in the AHL until he has no value, then just trade him.

what they're doing right now is the worst of all worlds. they aren't developing him, they're making him bitter, and they're killing whatever value he still has in a trade.

like people, including gord, were complaining about poor asset management when it came to duclair.......they way they're managing this asset (L. Brown) is a million times worse. like (frank), dorion went to the media and said he was the most talented prospect in their system........

Now to your point, that Paquette and Watson have proven they can play the PK......the team is rocking a 75% pk.....so really, how much worse would it be with players who were actually good players.
Paquette and Watson are not NHL caliber players.........PERIOD
- sensarmy_11

Well, more than 1/3 of the league has a worse %PK, and this is a team that's currently 2nd worst in GA/GP with the worst record in the league, so I don't think that measure really proves anything. Plus, I really can't agree that Watson and Paquette aren't NHL players, because most NHL teams have very similar players on their 4th lines. However, they really shouldn't be beyond the principle of earning their ice time, just because they add a physical presence. Plus, if they're going to be 4th line depth veterans on a rebuilding team, there should always be a focus on mentoring younger players, especially the likes of White/Chlapik, who project more as two-way forwards.

He might be a bust, as time goes on, it looks more and more that way. I won't call him one yet. However, good centres make players around them better. If he needs skilled wingers to look any good, then that concerns me. That's exactly what has happened with Colin White. Gets to play with Mark Stone, puts up good numbers. No more Mark Stone, is numbers take a hit. Now can't even crack the lineup regularly.

There is still time for guys like Brown, etc to get their chance. There isn't any weird conspiracy against young players. If you are good enough, you will find a way to play. Stay patient buddy.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

he doesn't need wingers to look good....he looked perfectly fine when he played last year.....but when you're a center, and your wingers are plugs, then the nice set up plays you make aren't going to be burried, or when you get open, your teammates aren't good enough to find you.

if they aren't going to give him a real chance, in the top six.....then they need to cut bait. they can't just keep sending him down until he has no value anymore. Dorion is probably the worst GM i've ever seen at holding onto assets too long, and then only moving on from them when they have zero value......and it seems like that's exactly what they're going to do with Brown

he looked good in his NHL games last year, didn't look out of place at all. he was great in the AHL.

if they give him a legit shot and he sucks, then so be it.......but if they're just going to let him rot in the AHL until he has no value, then just trade him.

what they're doing right now is the worst of all worlds. they aren't developing him, they're making him bitter, and they're killing whatever value he still has in a trade.

like people, including gord, were complaining about poor asset management when it came to duclair.......they way they're managing this asset (L. Brown) is a million times worse. like (frank), dorion went to the media and said he was the most talented prospect in their system........
- sensarmy_11

The asset management in this situation is brining in too many bodies, which I have said, I believe Dorion brought in too many. So yes, asset mismanagement in that sense. Dorion could have also moved Brown in the last year or so and didn't. Surely L. Brown's stock has taken a hit in the trade market not making this years team out of the gate. Again, not great asset management.

he doesn't need wingers to look good....he looked perfectly fine when he played last year.....but when you're a center, and your wingers are plugs, then the nice set up plays you make aren't going to be burried, or when you get open, your teammates aren't good enough to find you.

if they aren't going to give him a real chance, in the top six.....then they need to cut bait. they can't just keep sending him down until he has no value anymore. Dorion is probably the worst GM i've ever seen at holding onto assets too long, and then only moving on from them when they have zero value......and it seems like that's exactly what they're going to do with Brown
- sensarmy_11

100% agree with the bold.

Well, more than 1/3 of the league has a worse %PK, and this is a team that's currently 2nd worst in GA/GP with the worst record in the league, so I don't think that measure really proves anything. Plus, I really can't agree that Watson and Paquette aren't NHL players, because most NHL teams have very similar players on their 4th lines. However, they really shouldn't be beyond the principle of earning their ice time, just because they add a physical presence. Plus, if they're going to be 4th line depth veterans on a rebuilding team, there should always be a focus on mentoring younger players, especially the likes of White/Chlapik, who project more as two-way forwards.
- khawk

Paquette - 5gp, 0g, 0a, -5, 26% possession.....and he starts 65% of his shifts in the offensive zone......that's INSANE for a player rocking a 26% possession

Watson - 5gp, 1g, 1a, -1, 34% possession.....and he starts 75% of his shifts in the offensive zone.

how can players who start SOOOOOO many shifts in teh other teams zone, get caved in SOOO MUCH every shift. they play ridiculously sheltered 4th line minutes and are 2 of the worst possession players in the entire league.

they have shown NOTHING to prove that they deserve ice time over the prospects this team has.....literally NOTHING

you're telling me that the Ottawa Senators, who are a rebuilding team and sit dead last in league standings, can't afford to give prospects ice time because they need 2 of the worst possession players in the league to maintain their 19th ranked PK......is that really what you're saying?

he looked good in his NHL games last year, didn't look out of place at all. he was great in the AHL.

if they give him a legit shot and he sucks, then so be it.......but if they're just going to let him rot in the AHL until he has no value, then just trade him.

what they're doing right now is the worst of all worlds. they aren't developing him, they're making him bitter, and they're killing whatever value he still has in a trade.

like people, including gord, were complaining about poor asset management when it came to duclair.......they way they're managing this asset (L. Brown) is a million times worse. like (frank), dorion went to the media and said he was the most talented prospect in their system........
- sensarmy_11

I also have been somewhat surprised at some roster decisions.

But the question still remains why they won't give him a fair shot, but as of right now are willing to give Norris a chance to center a young players line, and Batherson too.

Regardless of the disagreements we have who we think should be in the lineup, I hope we can all agree that Murray has been really bad.