gergeswillems first off I applaud you on keeping after that idiot. He first stated that you need a top pick in order to acquire elite talent, Kucherov might argue that. Secondly he said the Wings are talentless. To say that is absolutely astonishing. Larkin, Bertuzzi, Martha, Fabbri, Ryan are all examples of talent, maybe not elite like McJesus or McKinnon, but still talented. The guy is an idiot who obviously doesn't have a clue either. Good job on you to put him in his place!

Jackie daytona you sound like a arrogant Canucks fan. I hope u feel good tho. But sorry we do have talent in our pipeline and need to get lucky in the draft.

gergeswillems first off I applaud you on keeping after that idiot. He first stated that you need a top pick in order to acquire elite talent, Kucherov might argue that. Secondly he said the Wings are talentless. To say that is absolutely astonishing. Larkin, Bertuzzi, Martha, Fabbri, Ryan are all examples of talent, maybe not elite like McJesus or McKinnon, but still talented. The guy is an idiot who obviously doesn't have a clue either. Good job on you to put him in his place!
- mplackitt

Thanks man. What can I say? When a person (Jackie) talks from their a$$, there's no telling how much $hit will come out. Some guy named Brayden Point was drafted in the 3rd round. But apparently the only way to acquire top talent is to draft in the top 5. I mean Point only won the Stanley Cup as Tampa's 1C scoring 33 points in 23 playoff games. 😉

Jackie daytona you sound like a arrogant Canucks fan. I hope u feel good tho. But sorry we do have talent in our pipeline and need to get lucky in the draft.
- Whatthepuck91

The thing is the Red Wings have bottomed out and finished with the worst record last season. Unfortunately, they dropped to 4th and missed out on drafting Lafreniere, Byfield or Stutzle. That's not Yzerman's fault. Raymond looks like he'll be a very good player though. But we're still waiting on "lottery luck" so to speak.

You're still talking out of your a$$. Of course the Red Wings are a bottom 5 team. They're rebuilding. Coaching makes a difference. If you can't understand this then you're more clueless than I thought. A good coach can make a bad team look better. An average team look good. A good team look great. How has Blashill improved the Red Wings exactly?

Blashill has been here for 6 years and what's his legacy? Of course he's not the only reason why this team has been awful but absolving him from any blame is ignorant. Throw out more blanket statements smart guy. The Red Wings need more top tier talent. Got it. Thanks.
- gergeswillems

We've gotten a lot of picks over that past five drafts and we'll get a lot more. At some point, this team needs an identity and a culture. What's the point of continuing to add players into a system where there's no expectation of winning?

Edmonton had nine top 10 draft picks over the past 11 drafts. Six of those picks were top five picks, four of them were top picks, and yet they are still a mediocre team. Buffalo has had eight top 10 picks over that same time period, including two #2's and a top pick. NJ had five top 10 picks, including two #1's over that time period, The Rangers had four top 10's in a row, including a #1 and #2.

My point is, none of those teams are worth a damn, Buffalo seems to be getting worse, NJ has stalemated and among all four, only the Rangers seem to be on an upward trajectory.

Detroit needs a new culture which starts with the captain first, and then the coach. While I agree that Detroit doesn't have a super star, they probably don't have one in their system, and the next lock to be a superstar is probably in next year's draft, there's no way to know if they'll get him and they need to start building a culture with an expectation of effort, excellence and winning. I just don't see that from anyone on this team.

We've gotten a lot of picks over that past five drafts and we'll get a lot more. At some point, this team needs an identity and a culture. What's the point of continuing to add players into a system where there's no expectation of winning?

Edmonton had nine top 10 draft picks over the past 11 drafts. Six of those picks were top five picks, four of them were top picks, and yet they are still a mediocre team. Buffalo has had eight top 10 picks over that same time period, including two #2's and a top pick. NJ had five top 10 picks, including two #1's over that time period, The Rangers had four top 10's in a row, including a #1 and #2.

My point is, none of those teams are worth a damn, Buffalo seems to be getting worse, NJ has stalemated and among all four, only the Rangers seem to be on an upward trajectory.

Detroit needs a new culture which starts with the captain first, and then the coach. While I agree that Detroit doesn't have a super star, they probably don't have one in their system, and the next lock to be a superstar is probably in next year's draft, there's no way to know if they'll get him and they need to start building a culture with an expectation of effort, excellence and winning. I just don't see that from anyone on this team.
- bluelineenforcer

You can't just write off every season as tanking for picks. It's why Yzerman said he wanted to compete more this season. He understands that while he's still building his team you still have to try to win as much as you can with what you have. You have to see progression.

Saying the Red Wings have nothing in their system is ignorant, foolish and wrong. How do we know Seider and Raymond won't be stars someday? Zadina? These are young players. There's no cookie cutter formula to build a winning hockey team.

Everyone believes they have all the answers and they don't. What works for one team may not work for another team. Pushing false narratives is common for many hockey fans. What are Red Wings fans supposed to do exactly? Not be excited about a highly rated prospect?

I'm not holding Steve Yzerman responsible for what Kenny did. I also don't care how the Oilers, Sabres and Devils blundered their high draft picks. I care about what Detroit does. Stevie did a pretty good job building a Cup champion in Tampa. That's why Red Wings fans trust his long term plan.

It seems it's perfectly acceptable for other teams fans to wax poetically about their team's prospects. But God forbid a Red Wings fan says good things about their prospects. I mean we can't have that now can we? Why does it bother people so much? Why is it so blasphemous? I'd really like to know.

Are fans still pi$$ed Detroit won 4 Stanley Cups and made the playoffs 25 seasons in a row?

We've gotten a lot of picks over that past five drafts and we'll get a lot more. At some point, this team needs an identity and a culture. What's the point of continuing to add players into a system where there's no expectation of winning?

Edmonton had nine top 10 draft picks over the past 11 drafts. Six of those picks were top five picks, four of them were top picks, and yet they are still a mediocre team. Buffalo has had eight top 10 picks over that same time period, including two #2's and a top pick. NJ had five top 10 picks, including two #1's over that time period, The Rangers had four top 10's in a row, including a #1 and #2.

My point is, none of those teams are worth a damn, Buffalo seems to be getting worse, NJ has stalemated and among all four, only the Rangers seem to be on an upward trajectory.

Detroit needs a new culture which starts with the captain first, and then the coach. While I agree that Detroit doesn't have a super star, they probably don't have one in their system, and the next lock to be a superstar is probably in next year's draft, there's no way to know if they'll get him and they need to start building a culture with an expectation of effort, excellence and winning. I just don't see that from anyone on this team.
- bluelineenforcer

Regarding building through the draft, nobody has ever said that drafting a bunch of top 5 picks guarantees success. Obviously you still need good management, good coaching, and good luck. Saying “Edmonton and Buffalo and NJ have gotten a lot of high draft picks and they still suck” is not an argument against building through the draft. No, it doesn't work 100% of the time. It doesn't even work 50% of the time. But it still works better than anything else.

As for the whole bit about “identity” and “culture,” frankly I think 99 times out of 100 that kind of talk is hogwash, and even to the extent that “lacking an identity” is a real problem that actually exists in professional sports, it seems outrageous to me to think that an ordinary fan watching games on TV could make any kind of meaningful judgment about the team culture.

Sometimes the problem is just that your team doesn’t have enough good players and they can’t keep up with superior talent no matter how hard they try. You can play your ass off, try your absolute best and still lose. Yet so many fans seem to want to believe that losing is some kind of moral failing and it must be that the players aren’t putting in enough effort and the captain must be a bad leader. Personally I think that's unrealistic and unfair.

I don’t have any concerns about the team’s compete level. They are professionals. I think they need more talent, period. Better players and steady management that won’t sabotage the rebuild with unrealistic expectations. I think Yzerman is that kind of manager.

That doesn’t mean we’re guaranteed to win a Cup in the next five to ten years or really even get close, but since Yzerman got here I think he’s made more good decisions than bad ones. All you can do is make the best decisions you can at the time you make them and hope you get that little extra bit of luck on top.

A little more on where I'm coming from regarding "identity" and "culture" questions.

Those “poor leadership” and “poor culture” and “lack of identity” criticisms followed the Red Wings throughout the entire early and mid-90s right up until the point they won the Cup, and then suddenly they were the “model franchise” with a “winning culture” and Yzerman was the “best captain of all time.”

IMO these are all just after-the-fact rationalizations.

There are 31 teams in the NHL, soon to be 32. Only one team per year can be a champion. The odds are stacked heavily against EVERYONE. You can do absolutely everything right from a management and coaching and leadership perspective and still fail.

But that’s not a very satisfying narrative. It’s much more fun to believe that when your team wins it’s because of their incredible culture and other intangibles, and much easier to make sense of failure when you can make it about heart or effort or culture (because those are “fixable” problems) instead of just the cruelty of the universe (which is not).

A little more on where I'm coming from regarding "identity" and "culture" questions.

Those “poor leadership” and “poor culture” and “lack of identity” criticisms followed the Red Wings throughout the entire early and mid-90s right up until the point they won the Cup, and then suddenly they were the “model franchise” with a “winning culture” and Yzerman was the “best captain of all time.”

IMO these are all just after-the-fact rationalizations.

There are 31 teams in the NHL, soon to be 32. Only one team per year can be a champion. The odds are stacked heavily against EVERYONE. You can do absolutely everything right from a management and coaching and leadership perspective and still fail.

But that’s not a very satisfying narrative. It’s much more fun to believe that when your team wins it’s because of their incredible culture and other intangibles, and much easier to make sense of failure when you can make it about heart or effort or culture (because those are “fixable” problems) instead of just the cruelty of the universe (which is not).
- Sven22

Steve Yzerman used to be called a playoff choker right up until they won the Cup in 1997. Then he became a great leader. What changed? He just flipped on the magical light switch? Don Cherry used to say a team couldn't win a Cup with Russian players. But then they did. A swede can never captain a Cup champion. But then Lidstrom did. I love flawed narratives.

You can't just write off every season as tanking for picks. It's why Yzerman said he wanted to compete more this season. He understands that while he's still building his team you still have to try to win as much as you can with what you have. You have to see progression.

Saying the Red Wings have nothing in their system is ignorant, foolish and wrong. How do we know Seider and Raymond won't be stars someday? Zadina? These are young players. There's no cookie cutter formula to build a winning hockey team.

Everyone believes they have all the answers and they don't. What works for one team may not work for another team. Pushing false narratives is common for many hockey fans. What are Red Wings fans supposed to do exactly? Not be excited about a highly rated prospect?

I'm not holding Steve Yzerman responsible for what Kenny did. I also don't care how the Oilers, Sabres and Devils blundered their high draft picks. I care about what Detroit does. Stevie did a pretty good job building a Cup champion in Tampa. That's why Red Wings fans trust his long term plan.

It seems it's perfectly acceptable for other teams fans to wax poetically about their team's prospects. But God forbid a Red Wings fan says good things about their prospects. I mean we can't have that now can we? Why does it bother people so much? Why is it so blasphemous? I'd really like to know.

Are fans still pi$$ed Detroit won 4 Stanley Cups and made the playoffs 25 seasons in a row?
- gergeswillems

Clearly I didn't say "Detroit has nothing in their system" they obviously have a lot in of very good prospects in their system. I quite clearly said they didn't have a SUPER STAR in their system. They don't have a McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, etc. They have several players that could turn out to be stars and great players, but they don't have...well...even a Federov or Yzerman. If somebody in their system turns out to be a super star, I'd be ecstatic, but I don't think anyone is currently projecting as a top 5 or even top 10 NHL player, competing for the scoring title each year. Perhaps that'll change, I'd love to see one or more turn out to be a diamond in the rough like Federov, Datsyuk or Kucherov, but my entire point, you can't keep tanking in hopes of drafting one, you have to start building a new culture now.

Clearly I didn't say "Detroit has nothing in their system" they obviously have a lot in of very good prospects in their system. I quite clearly said they didn't have a SUPER STAR in their system. They don't have a McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Crosby, etc. They have several players that could turn out to be stars and great players, but they don't have...well...even a Federov or Yzerman. If somebody in their system turns out to be a super star, I'd be ecstatic, but I don't think anyone is currently projecting as a top 5 or even top 10 NHL player, competing for the scoring title each year. Perhaps that'll change, I'd love to see one or more turn out to be a diamond in the rough like Federov, Datsyuk or Kucherov, but my entire point, you can't keep tanking in hopes of drafting one, you have to start building a new culture now.
- bluelineenforcer

Is there an echo in here?

"You can't just write off every season as tanking for picks. It's why Yzerman said he wanted to compete more this season. He understands that while he's still building his team you still have to try to win as much as you can with what you have. You have to see progression."

Building a new team? Or building a new culture? What exactly is a culture? Which came first? The chicken or the egg? The winning or the culture? Does winning create the culture? Or does the culture create the winning? I'm trying to keep my narratives straight.

When Ryan O'Reilly was in Buffalo fans said he was a
selfish player. A team killer. A cancer. He gets traded to St. Louis. A team annually known as playoff chokers. The Blues win the Cup and ROR wins the Conn Smythe trophy.

So what happened? Blues had a losing playoff team and a losing "culture." But maybe promoting Craig Berube as head coach and starting a goalie (Binnington) who could stop the puck have something to do with it? Did winning games give the Blues confidence which created the "culture"?

Did the Blues players get together in the dressing room and say "Ok boys. Let's get our culture going and we can win this thing?"

gergeswillems first off I applaud you on keeping after that idiot. He first stated that you need a top pick in order to acquire elite talent, Kucherov might argue that. Secondly he said the Wings are talentless. To say that is absolutely astonishing. Larkin, Bertuzzi, Martha, Fabbri, Ryan are all examples of talent, maybe not elite like McJesus or McKinnon, but still talented. The guy is an idiot who obviously doesn't have a clue either. Good job on you to put him in his place!
- mplackitt

What you're saying is that Detroit doesn't have a generational talent. And that's a true statement, depending on the definition. So, just like picking someone to go home with from the bar at 2am: Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder. The issue with the draft for the Wings over the past several years is that we went home at 2 with a 10, but woke up at 10 with a 2 thanks to crappy draft draws.

Conversations about rebuilding, opinions, theories, staunch beliefs are all conjecture. For every argument that there's one definitive way to build a winner.....there's many against it. Each person thinks they have the solution. Well, there's no cookie-cutter answer.

We, as Wings fans, are soooo fed up with losing because winning had been a generational thing for us. Literally, a whole generation of Wings fans NEVER saw us miss the play-offs. Think about that for a minute: A WHOLE generation, a kid born in year one of the PO run had his heart broken at 25. To me, that's staggering. We took for granted that the streak was what it was. Many of us wondered about replacing aging talent, but the GM didn't make the moves we'd consider best to keep the streak alive. And now we're paying the piper for 25 years of success (depending on how you define success.....).

What kinda chafes my underoos is when some interloper comes in to rub it in our faces. Bugger off, Richard Head. Some people have zero class. But, DAMN I LOVE watching G tear them a new ass.

Fans,

On a sad note, a note of concern:
Looks like Little Bert may be done for the season. Hearing rumors that the UBI isn't getting better and there's debate about season-ending surgery or just relying on rehab until that's no longer feasible. This is gonna suck, but I totally believe there's ZERO reason for him to push coming back early and causing more damage. Good news is that this may bode well for us keeping him next year on another short-term contract. I like the kid and his gritty style. Every time I watch him skate, I see Todd (not the DUI mug-shot Todd, but the grinder, the gritty player....).

Fans,

On a sad note, a note of concern:
Looks like Little Bert may be done for the season. Hearing rumors that the UBI isn't getting better and there's debate about season-ending surgery or just relying on rehab until that's no longer feasible. This is gonna suck, but I totally believe there's ZERO reason for him to push coming back early and causing more damage. Good news is that this may bode well for us keeping him next year on another short-term contract. I like the kid and his gritty style. Every time I watch him skate, I see Todd (not the DUI mug-shot Todd, but the grinder, the gritty player....).
- mcmastermike1968

Yeah it sucks for sure. We really miss Bert's presence. Especially Larkin and Mantha. Bert does alot of the grunt work and opens up alot of ice for them. He brings that rare combination of skill and grit and opponents hate playing against him. He scores those greasy goals any successful team needs.

But coming back this season is likely pointless. What's important is that Bert heals up and comes back 100% for next season. Another 1 year deal between 3.5 and 4 mil is likely in the cards. The Red Wings are just a much better team with Bert in the lineup and are much harder to play against. We'd have at least 5 more wins if Bert didn't get injured. Only Red Wings fans can appreciate Bert's true value because we watch all the Red Wings games.

I've said this ever since Bert's rookie season. His only real weakness is that he'll be injury prone due to his helter skelter style of play. I love his game. But his body can't seem to write enough checks to equal what his brain and heart want to do on the ice. I hope he comes back full of piss and vinegar but unfortunately I'll always be waiting for his next injury.

Yeah it sucks for sure. We really miss Bert's presence. Especially Larkin and Mantha. Bert does alot of the grunt work and opens up alot of ice for them. He brings that rare combination of skill and grit and opponents hate playing against him. He scores those greasy goals any successful team needs.

But coming back this season is likely pointless. What's important is that Bert heals up and comes back 100% for next season. Another 1 year deal between 3.5 and 4 mil is likely in the cards. The Red Wings are just a much better team with Bert in the lineup and are much harder to play against. We'd have at least 5 more wins if Bert didn't get injured. Only Red Wings fans can appreciate Bert's true value because we watch all the Red Wings games.

I've said this ever since Bert's rookie season. His only real weakness is that he'll be injury prone due to his helter skelter style of play. I love his game. But his body can't seem to write enough checks to equal what his brain and heart want to do on the ice. I hope he comes back full of piss and vinegar but unfortunately I'll always be waiting for his next injury.
- gergeswillems

He's the type of player you need on the ice, kinda of like Marchand - gets under your skin and forces you make mistakes.

Coming back this year is, indeed, pointless. There's nothing to gain and everything to lose. At least we have a good chance of keeping him on another lower-priced contract for a year or so!!

He's the type of player you need on the ice, kinda of like Marchand - gets under your skin and forces you make mistakes.

Coming back this year is, indeed, pointless. There's nothing to gain and everything to lose. At least we have a good chance of keeping him on another lower-priced contract for a year or so!!
- mcmastermike1968

Bert isn't a rat infested, scumbag, cowardly dirty POS like Marchand is. But they both get under their opponents skin. And yes I'd take Marchand on my team any day of the week so I'm a hypocrite.

Bert isn't a rat infested, scumbag, cowardly dirty POS like Marchand is. But they both get under their opponents skin. And yes I'd take Marchand on my team any day of the week so I'm a hypocrite.
- gergeswillems

Dude, I'd like to have Marchand on the roster.....then what he does would be JUST fine with me

Until then, he's a punkass that deserves 2 rounds with Tiger Williams.