I’ll assume you’re referring to me as far as the debate is concerned

I don’t hate Dal Colle I think he’s a useful player I just think he’s more a depth player then a top 9 regular. I think we see that most games he’ll have a few decent shifts and then becomes less effective as the game goes on. Same can be said for consistency from game to game imo.
- Cptmjl

No, just the board in general.

After the game I was going to pop on and say, "Guess we could have used Wahlstrom's shot after all, eh Capt.?" but keaner beat me to it with a Dal Colle-over-Wahlstrom post

But Wahlstrom never even was on the top two lines, even when the team was rattling off win after win. If he was in the lineup, he'd most likely be with Pageau again, and Bailey...who I know isn't a crowd favorite here...would go back to the second line.

I get the point you're making, I just don't see Dal Colle as the offensive anchor you do. It's not like he hasn't played with Nelson before now...he's really only ever been on Nelson's or Pageau's line this season...and neither of those lines looked terrible when he was on them. I'm not saying Dal Colle's been the catalyst, but only that I'm OK with a guy like that filling a middle-six role. Komarov to me, sure, seems more like a possession black hole, a drag on a line's ability to produce offense, and someone who's "warriorishness," or whatever, should be limited to the 4th line.

Like I said yesterday, if you give me only the choice of Wahlstrom or Dal Colle, I'd pick Wahlstrom 9 times out of 10. On that 10th time when I pick Dal Colle, I certainly wouldn't also pick Komarov for the first line. But, just my opinion, the battle should really be between Dal Colle and Zajac for 2nd/3rd line wing; not between Komarov and Zajac for 1st line wing.
- UIF

In the case of Wahlstrom during most of that stretch, Lee was around so he wouldn't have been on the top line regardless. That point isn't so much specifically about Wahlstrom being on top line but rather a player with offensive talent should be rather than Leo. You could insert anyone of several guys there that would make that line more dangerous.

Like I said, the case with Dal Colle is to a much lesser degree, but it becomes amplified when you've already saddled the top line with Leo. It's not that Dal Colle is an anchor, he isn't. But he also adds little in terms of offensive punch. I'm fine with him there for now if you have a more potent top line, but at the moment we have Leo Komarov playing the muscle role there.

In the case of Wahlstrom during most of that stretch, Lee was around so he wouldn't have been on the top line regardless. That point isn't so much specifically about Wahlstrom being on top line but rather a player with offensive talent should be rather than Leo. You could insert anyone of several guys there that would make that line more dangerous.

Like I said, the case with Dal Colle is to a much lesser degree, but it becomes amplified when you've already saddled the top line with Leo. It's not that Dal Colle is an anchor, he isn't. But he also adds little in terms of offensive punch. I'm fine with him there for now if you have a more potent top line, but at the moment we have Leo Komarov playing the muscle role there.
- keaner17

I guess I don't really disagree with any of this

As for the first line, I know I'm a broken record with Palmieri, and I'm sure Trotz has his reasons, but I can't figure out why you'd trade for a trigger man like that and then not even consider playing him with your best set-up guy. Particularly when they traded for this trigger man over the other one presumably because he was a more complete player who wouldn't be a defensive liability. Neither Palmieri nor Barzal can seem to get going offensively...which is what the team needs from both of them...so why not give it a shot and see if one can compliment the other?

I guess I don't really disagree with any of this

As for the first line, I know I'm a broken record with Palmieri, and I'm sure Trotz has his reasons, but I can't figure out why you'd trade for a trigger man like that and then not even consider playing him with your best set-up guy. Particularly when they traded for this trigger man over the other one presumably because he was a more complete player who wouldn't be a defensive liability. Neither Palmieri nor Barzal can seem to get going offensively...which is what the team needs from both of them...so why not give it a shot and see if one can compliment the other?
- UIF

That certainly was the combination I was expecting. While Palmieri is no Anders, he is capable of making his living in the dirty areas where Anders was so impactful. As you say, Barzal is a set up guy. I'd argue that he is one of the top playmakers in the NHL. Unfortunately we're doing little to accommodate that skill.

I guess I don't really disagree with any of this

As for the first line, I know I'm a broken record with Palmieri, and I'm sure Trotz has his reasons, but I can't figure out why you'd trade for a trigger man like that and then not even consider playing him with your best set-up guy. Particularly when they traded for this trigger man over the other one presumably because he was a more complete player who wouldn't be a defensive liability. Neither Palmieri nor Barzal can seem to get going offensively...which is what the team needs from both of them...so why not give it a shot and see if one can compliment the other?
- UIF

Unfortunately these lines are still a work in progress. I’ll say it again like Toga mentioned a few times maybe these players playing on their offsides is a lot less optimum then any of us expected. With that said Palmieri has played on his offside in the past so having him slot in on the first line isn’t such a stretch. It does seem a bit unusual he hasn’t gotten an extended look with Barzal. I get trotz like every other coach wants scoring through the lineup but he’s not getting that by eliminating his first line.

In case you haven't noticed, EVERYONE is turning the puck over on the pp. They ran an entire pp without Barzal last night and couldn't even enter the zone. Your boy 12Chainz sprang the Caps on a breakway that fortunately got cut off by Pelech durang the pp. The pp is a whole different problem right now.

As I said, Barzy has definitely been bad. He's skating himself into trouble. That said, it's a helluva lot easier for the Caps to cut him off when all they have to do is figure out where Ebs is, since Leo is caboosing it at center ice.
- keaner17

PP should be splendid with Barzal playing with the best offensive players on the team then. However he still TO the puck. Maybe the others on the pp TO the puck because their playing with Barzal. I mean if Leo and the anchors cause him to TO the puck then maybe he’s causing them to TO the puck. Of course I’m exaggerating but you can’t have it both ways to fit a certain narrative.
If I’m following your narrative then Barzal on the PP should be productive, which as you said it isn’t. Again Leo isn’t a replacement for Lee and never will be. Hard to replace what he brings to the ice but Barzal needs to create with who ever he is with on the ice. My opinion of course.

Edited; not worth it
- Cptmjl

That a boy/girl stick to nursing

PP should be splendid with Barzal playing with the best offensive players on the team then. However he still TO the puck. Maybe the others on the pp TO the puck because their playing with Barzal. I mean if Leo and the anchors cause him to TO the puck then maybe he’s causing them to TO the puck. Of course I’m exaggerating but you can’t have it both ways to fit a certain narrative.
If I’m following your narrative then Barzal on the PP should be productive, which as you said it isn’t.
- nyisles7

I'm saying that neither pp unit has been effective and both are turning the pucks over. To me, the pp is struggling because it's way too static. There's no movement or urgency. That makes it easy for teams to defend if there's no cycling or movement. Rather than players trying to react and find soft areas, they wait for passes to go through defenders. Whether it's tactical or a matter of guys just not moving their feet, the pp is a team problem right now

I'm saying that neither pp unit has been effective and both are turning the pucks over. To me, the pp is struggling because it's way too static. There's no movement or urgency. That makes it easy for teams to defend if there's no cycling or movement. Rather than players trying to react and find soft areas, they wait for passes to go through defenders. Whether it's tactical or a matter of guys just not moving their feet, the pp is a team problem right now
- keaner17

PP to me looks like and always has been a problem between the ears.

I'm saying that neither pp unit has been effective and both are turning the pucks over. To me, the pp is struggling because it's way too static. There's no movement or urgency. That makes it easy for teams to defend if there's no cycling or movement. Rather than players trying to react and find soft areas, they wait for passes to go through defenders. Whether it's tactical or a matter of guys just not moving their feet, the pp is a team problem right now
- keaner17

100% Keaner.
You and I have said this over and over again and agree. I’m using this to point out with a man advantage and all the best players Barzal still TO the puck here lately, on the pp or not and it isn’t because of Leo and or Zajac etc.
It’s when he tries to do to much and makes the wrong or dumb play. We have seen him drift in and out of this now season in season out with various wingers. Whether it’s Lee and Eberle or anyone else. That’s my point and I think you can agree with that. When he’s on his game he produces with anyone on his line he’s that talented. He just needs to play the way to maximize his talents and not hurt them. To an end Barzal is Barzal’s worst enemy imho no one else.

Tarik El-Bashir @Tarik_ElBashir
23s
Ovechkin has a lower body injury and is day-to-day, per the #Caps. Team is scheduled for an optional practice on Long Island.

Tarik El-Bashir @Tarik_ElBashir
23s
Ovechkin has a lower body injury and is day-to-day, per the #Caps. Team is scheduled for an optional practice on Long Island.


- eichiefs9

He threw a hit early in the game last night an wasn’t visible after that. I wonder if that’s when it happened. I think he hit Mayfield?

He threw a hit early in the game last night an wasn’t visible after that. I wonder if that’s when it happened. I think he hit Mayfield?
- nyisles7

He apparently left with about 2:50 to go or something along those lines. Didn't play in OT or the SO. No clue when it happened. But the door could be open to potentially take the next two, if they can figure out how to deposit a few in the net.

He apparently left with about 2:50 to go or something along those lines. Didn't play in OT or the SO. No clue when it happened. But the door could be open to potentially take the next two, if they can figure out how to deposit a few in the net.
- eichiefs9

That I knew, but I did notice him hitting Mafield and got the worst of it. Wasn’t really a factor or noticeable after that for me so maybe he tried playing through the knock but just couldn’t. Just a guess. Bad for The Caps, good for us

He threw a hit early in the game last night an wasn’t visible after that. I wonder if that’s when it happened. I think he hit Mayfield?
- nyisles7

He clipped skates with his own teammate at one point and got up slow. I'm betting that's when it happened

He threw a hit early in the game last night an wasn’t visible after that. I wonder if that’s when it happened. I think he hit Mayfield?
- nyisles7

Mayfield might’ve broke Ovechkin?

100% Keaner.
You and I have said this over and over again and agree. I’m using this to point out with a man advantage and all the best players Barzal still TO the puck here lately, on the pp or not and it isn’t because of Leo and or Zajac etc.
It’s when he tries to do to much and makes the wrong or dumb play. We have seen him drift in and out of this now season in season out with various wingers. Whether it’s Lee and Eberle or anyone else. That’s my point and I think you can agree with that. When he’s on his game he produces with anyone on his line he’s that talented. He just needs to play the way to maximize his talents and not hurt them. To an end Barzal is Barzal’s worst enemy imho no one else.
- nyisles7

What I'm saying is that in both cases Barzal is trying to do too much, but for different reasons. Everyone is turning it over on the pp. Puck possession has been awful.
On 5x5, I think it has to do with our top line being an underwhelming threat and no netfront presence. He's still guilty of the mistakes, but a better cast could help that.

What I'm saying is that in both cases Barzal is trying to do too much, but for different reasons. Everyone is turning it over on the pp. Puck possession has been awful.
On 5x5, I think it has to do with our top line being an underwhelming threat and no netfront presence. He's still guilty of the mistakes, but a better cast could help that.
- keaner17

Of course, again Leo isn’t the answer however 5v5 the team has played more Islanders type hockey the last few games and will be fine if they continue to do this. You have to think Bellows or Wally get a shot in the near future but I think it will take the team not playing well as a team for the lineup to change imo.

What I'm saying is that in both cases Barzal is trying to do too much, but for different reasons. Everyone is turning it over on the pp. Puck possession has been awful.
On 5x5, I think it has to do with our top line being an underwhelming threat and no netfront presence. He's still guilty of the mistakes, but a better cast could help that.
- keaner17

Yep. Play Barzal with someone who is more aligned to his skill set and he’s not “pressing” as much. Just like the coach or the rest of the team for that matter most of us on here have a pretty good idea of Barzal’s negatives and positives and to an extent when he performs better. Having only one player to dish the puck to on his line is not exactly a recipe for success with Barzal and that’s when he’ll start pressing and turning over the puck.

He clipped skates with his own teammate at one point and got up slow. I'm betting that's when it happened
- keaner17

I didn’t see that. When was that? Maybe on Saturdays pre game or game coverage they show where they believe it happened.
Big loss for the Caps.

Yep. Play Barzal with someone who is more aligned to his skill set and he’s not “pressing” as much. Just like the coach or the rest of the team for that matter most of us on here have a pretty good idea of Barzal’s negatives and positives and to an extent when he performs better. Having only one player to dish the puck to on his line is not exactly a recipe for success with Barzal and that’s when he’ll start pressing and turning over the puck.
- Cptmjl

Then explain the TO he makes on the PP when he has 4 other options and one less defender on the ice? Simple question. I’m not looking for the PP sucks because that doesn’t answer The question why when he has other options and better players he does the same stupid stuff? It’s him more than anything else IMO.
It seems to come and go with him. We have seen it now since he started in the NHL where he goes through these phases.

BTW he has 4 other options in the o zone to dish the puck to at even strength as well. More than not the play goes low to high, high to low which involves all 5 players on the ice.

Then explain the TO he makes on the PP when he has 4 other options and one less defender on the ice? Simple question. I’m not looking for the PP sucks because that doesn’t answer The question why when he has other options and better players he does the same stupid stuff?
It seems to come and go with him. We have seen it now since he started in the NHL.
- nyisles7

I think the pp as I stated earlier is more of a team wide mental mind (frank). You can’t single out Barzal on the pp without mentioning Bailey’s ineptitude along with every other player on it. As a whole it’s terrible with every player taking some blame. With that said yeah like everything else we discuss it’s not 100% this or that it’s yeah this isn’t helping his performance but he’s not helping himself either. My point and I think Keaner’s as well is Barzal struggling on his line is affecting his game in every facet whether the powerplay or anything else. Sure you can say well he has got to straighten it out and you wouldn’t be wrong but the guy is struggling as we know putting Komarov on his line isn’t giving him the best chance to succeed. Not sure if that’s even debatable.

Then explain the TO he makes on the PP when he has 4 other options and one less defender on the ice? Simple question. I’m not looking for the PP sucks because that doesn’t answer The question why when he has other options and better players he does the same stupid stuff? It’s him more than anything else IMO.
It seems to come and go with him. We have seen it now since he started in the NHL.

BTW he has 4 other options in the o zone to dish the puck to at even strength as well. More than not the play goes low to high, high to low which involves all 5 players on the ice.
- nyisles7

This is true but are we seriously debating whether having someone who has 5 points in 28 games this season a chunk which has been on the first line or 14 in 48 last season is not hurting Barzal’s game? If that’s your angle let’s just cut to the chase and agree to disagree and move on.

I think the pp as I stated earlier is more of a team wide mental mind (frank). You can’t single out Barzal on the pp without mentioning Bailey’s ineptitude along with every other player on it. As a whole it’s terrible with every player taking some blame. With that said yeah like everything else we discuss it’s not 100% this or that it’s yeah this isn’t helping his performance but he’s not helping himself either. My point and I think Keaner’s as well is Barzal struggling on his line is affecting his game in every facet whether the powerplay or anything else. Sure you can say well he has got to straighten it out and you wouldn’t be wrong but the guy is struggling as we know putting Komarov on his line isn’t giving him the best chance to succeed. Not sure if that’s even debatable.
- Cptmjl

PP is a joke lately no one can argue that. When Barzal is in one of his funks it’s worse imho. Everyone makes mistakes on the PP that why teams with the best % are at ~25%. The fact is when your most dynamic player is brutal in his decision making it is exaggerated IMO. When he’s playing like this he makes the PP worse and it’s better without him. He goes through this season after season and it’s not because of Leo or anyone else. He has no one to blame but himself.

This is true but are we seriously debating whether having someone who has 5 points in 28 games this season a chunk which has been on the first line or 14 in 48 last season is not hurting Barzal’s game? If that’s your angle let’s just cut to the chase and agree to disagree and move on.
- Cptmjl