Agreed. That is why the Hawks struggles on D is a mixture of both. It looks like guys are out there thinking versus relying on defensive instincts/fundamentals.

I can't count how many times I have seen both D go down low to get a puck carrier and leave the net wide open. If that is a player making a bad read then said player needs to be benched for a game or period. It happens so many times each game.

If it is the system and a forward is supposed to drop down and cover then its a bad system b/c then that puck goes to the point and the Hawks in turn scramble to cover the point and chaos ensues and more often then not someone is wide open for a cross ice pass or easy rebound goal.

I'd rather see a system that allows for errors or lost puck battles that won't implode on itself.

In this system, I don't see any premium on keeping guys to the outside. Why do we need a d-men to aggressively chase the puck carrier along the wall by the dot or down low in the corner and leave the middle of the ice wide open?

If guys are just consistently screwing up Colliton's system and making bad reads then their needs to be some accountability. It has been 2 years in the system and I see zero improvement or changes.
- bhawks2241

Probably need to get used to it. I believe JC was extended prior to this year. Do you really believe that JC is running a system that the front office hates?

In this system, I don't see any premium on keeping guys to the outside. Why do we need a d-men to aggressively chase the puck carrier along the wall by the dot or down low in the corner and leave the middle of the ice wide open?

- bhawks2241

The chasing around the back of the net I don't understand...I just don't get it.

Hawks defensive breakdowns are...catastrophic. They look like a secondary in football that's trying to figure out who to cover presnap...but it's hockey, so it's already in the back of your net.

Agreed. That is why the Hawks struggles on D is a mixture of both. It looks like guys are out there thinking versus relying on defensive instincts/fundamentals.

I can't count how many times I have seen both D go down low to get a puck carrier and leave the net wide open. If that is a player making a bad read then said player needs to be benched for a game or period. It happens so many times each game.

If it is the system and a forward is supposed to drop down and cover then its a bad system b/c then that puck goes to the point and the Hawks in turn scramble to cover the point and chaos ensues and more often then not someone is wide open for a cross ice pass or easy rebound goal.

I'd rather see a system that allows for errors or lost puck battles that won't implode on itself.

In this system, I don't see any premium on keeping guys to the outside. Why do we need a d-men to aggressively chase the puck carrier along the wall by the dot or down low in the corner and leave the middle of the ice wide open?

If guys are just consistently screwing up Colliton's system and making bad reads then their needs to be some accountability. It has been 2 years in the system and I see zero improvement or changes.
- bhawks2241

Tampa Bay, Nashville, Carolina play a man system, maybe not exactly what JC teaches but you see defenseman on these teams chase forwards to the blue line, (no JC's system is not the only one in the league that calls for it). Yes, it is bad reads, and not because of the system. Didn't Murphy also have problems with Q's system when he was here? Keith unfortunately, the mind wants to, but the body being a step slower changes him form elite status to good. Zadorov and Da Haan are slow when they get the puck, thus forecheckers are right on them negating anything resembling a break-out pass. Hopefully as far as vets this year, only Keith is back, sign a David Savard or someone that could fill the veteran role.

I can see Kalnyuk, Mitchell, Bovquist (maybe Beaudin, but definitely as the seventh D) being regulars next year. You have Keith, you can sign or trade for 2 veteran defenseman that would be an upgrade over what they have.

Tampa Bay, Nashville, Carolina play a man system, maybe not exactly what JC teaches but you see defenseman on these teams chase forwards to the blue line, (no JC's system is not the only one in the league that calls for it). Yes, it is bad reads, and not because of the system. Didn't Murphy also have problems with Q's system when he was here? Keith unfortunately, the mind wants to, but the body being a step slower changes him form elite status to good. Zadorov and Da Haan are slow when they get the puck, thus forecheckers are right on them negating anything resembling a break-out pass. Hopefully as far as vets this year, only Keith is back, sign a David Savard or someone that could fill the veteran role.

I can see Kalnyuk, Mitchell, Bovquist (maybe Beaudin, but definitely as the seventh D) being regulars next year. You have Keith, you can sign or trade for 2 veteran defenseman that would be an upgrade over what they have.
- LAHawk

Murphy had a disastrous game, no doubts, but let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. We still need some size on the backend to go along with the kids, and he’s a RD. Zadorov can go and while I love Keith, he needs his minutes scaled down.

Only excuse I have for the vets struggling with JC's defensive system is that in sports, players are most effective when they are reacting not thinking. Years of playing a certain way has ingrained in them how they should react. Now, they are being expected to do things differently, it's not that they can't do it, it's that it takes a fraction more time because they have to think as opposed to just react. That slight delay is why they get beat to some spots, or are a fraction late to cover or break up passes. It's also why the younger guys may be able to ingest the concepts of it quicker since there is a lot less to re-learn.

None of it is an excuse for the bad fundamental mistakes though.
- TheTrob

Having both defenders chase a player with a puck in the corner all of the time means the players are complete morons or there being told to do something stupid.

Agreed. That is why the Hawks struggles on D is a mixture of both. It looks like guys are out there thinking versus relying on defensive instincts/fundamentals.

I can't count how many times I have seen both D go down low to get a puck carrier and leave the net wide open. If that is a player making a bad read then said player needs to be benched for a game or period. It happens so many times each game.

If it is the system and a forward is supposed to drop down and cover then its a bad system b/c then that puck goes to the point and the Hawks in turn scramble to cover the point and chaos ensues and more often then not someone is wide open for a cross ice pass or easy rebound goal.

I'd rather see a system that allows for errors or lost puck battles that won't implode on itself.

In this system, I don't see any premium on keeping guys to the outside. Why do we need a d-men to aggressively chase the puck carrier along the wall by the dot or down low in the corner and leave the middle of the ice wide open?

If guys are just consistently screwing up Colliton's system and making bad reads then their needs to be some accountability. It has been 2 years in the system and I see zero improvement or changes.
- bhawks2241

This has been happening for 3 years no matter who is in the line up.

That’s fine. I’d rather the kids have something to play for. The key to that though is letting the kids play. I think it’s past time to get Beaudin and Mitchell back in the lineup. I don’t ever need to see Zadorov or deHaan again.
- Ogilthorpe2

110% agreed. Wrap Dehaan in bubble wrap and have him list his house/condo for when SEattle takes him or you buy him out. His game.....is long gone.

Zadorov, I just don't think he give a crap. I really don't. All he cares is about is making sure his man bun looks nice for warmups, chomps on that gum, and gets his skate blades switched out......that's the highlight of his night. All down hill the moment he leaves the bench until he's showered and dreaming of some asinine deal some team HE THINKS he will pay him.

was that report by Dreger true or wishful thinking? I hope it's true, but you would think this kind of update would of come from the club first. I can't see Toews granting a journalist (although a well connected one) approval to give an update about his condition before the club.
- LAHawk

I have to believe it's true.....Dreger is usually VERY spot on....can't recall many, if any, times he was proved completely wrong on a signing, trade, injury, etc.

Hawks said they were going to give Toews space and if they update they get stuck getting asked it daily by the press and it becomes a major distraction for them. So they just stay mute.

The best news is is that this should quiet all these rumors of guys knowing somebody who heard he has MS or ALS or whatever else.

Does the system require players to make decisions that their instincts tell them is bad fundamentally? I feel like guys get stuck in between do what Colliton is coaching versus what their hockey instincts are telling them to do. This results in slow reaction times and indecisiveness, i.e. pucks in the back of the net.

If that makes sense.... definitely not a hockey expert.

Edit: I haven't played much organized hockey but enough other sports to know that if you are out there thinking on defense when you should be reacting you already lost.
- bhawks2241

In any sport that has a goal - hockey, basketball, soccer, lacrosse, water polo - forcing the other team away from the goal and having bodies in front of it is usually more successful then chasing the ball or puck around like 6 year olds.

There are times when high pressure is appropriate but not all times.

Probably need to get used to it. I believe JC was extended prior to this year. Do you really believe that JC is running a system that the front office hates?
- mohel

Robin Ventura somehow had a job for 5 years.

Probably more of a Ricky Renteria situation where they'll have someone whose going to be nice and encourage the kids to not worry about mistakes and have fun and then bring in a real coach when they are ready to compete.

He’s playing like he wants to earn a position. And like ADB a small guy who doesn’t mind playing in tough areas on the ice.
- paulr

I agree....my only caution here is he was released and picked up. SO I'm sure he has extra motivation to prove Florida wrong......it can go 1 of 2 ways......1. he finally sees what he has to do night in and night out, energy, consistency, to be a regular NHL player.....2. he reverts back to the guy who is now on his 4th team in a short amount of time and goes belly up.

Low risk, high reward move for Bowman and so far it's paying off very nicely.

Robin Ventura somehow had a job for 5 years.

Probably more of a Ricky Renteria situation where they'll have someone whose going to be nice and encourage the kids to not worry about mistakes and have fun and then bring in a real coach when they are ready to compete.
- fattybeef

Like Savard in 2008 and pivoting to Q very quickly........

Come on, can't we talk about something positive and exciting this morning - like the Maple Leafs on a 5 game losing streak heading into the playoffs with 2 minor league goalies playing badly?
- RickJ

I cant wait for sad Pierre LeBrun series ending tweets about the leafs. I live for those.....

Murphy had a disastrous game, no doubts, but let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. We still need some size on the backend to go along with the kids, and he’s a RD. Zadorov can go and while I love Keith, he needs his minutes scaled down.
- Angotti

I forgot Stillman

Tampa Bay, Nashville, Carolina play a man system, maybe not exactly what JC teaches but you see defenseman on these teams chase forwards to the blue line, (no JC's system is not the only one in the league that calls for it). Yes, it is bad reads, and not because of the system. Didn't Murphy also have problems with Q's system when he was here? Keith unfortunately, the mind wants to, but the body being a step slower changes him form elite status to good. Zadorov and Da Haan are slow when they get the puck, thus forecheckers are right on them negating anything resembling a break-out pass. Hopefully as far as vets this year, only Keith is back, sign a David Savard or someone that could fill the veteran role.

I can see Kalnyuk, Mitchell, Bovquist (maybe Beaudin, but definitely as the seventh D) being regulars next year. You have Keith, you can sign or trade for 2 veteran defenseman that would be an upgrade over what they have.
- LAHawk

Doubt all of Murphy, Z, and deHaan are gone, but 2 of the 3 would be progress.

This has been happening for 3 years no matter who is in the line up.
- fattybeef

I don't disagree....I dont know if hes expecting the center to come down and cover the front of the net and the wings to come down as well, but the Hawks do BLOW a LOT of coverage and leave guys wide open in prime scoring areas. At times it's a fire drill in their own end. pure chaos.

Loved the fight and comeback last night. Keeps them in it for even longer and to me....it's all bonus time now. I would just prefer to see kids over 44 and 16. 44 needs to be protected as he's literally made of glass and being exposed each and every time he's out there....and if they already shopping Zadorov in a shortened/condensed year a kid can give them as much (worst case) than Lurch.

Massive uphill climb but by Tuesday morning Dallas will have played their games in hand so it'll be interesting to see how tomorrow goes, and Dallas results vs Carolina and Detroit play out.

Robin Ventura somehow had a job for 5 years.

Probably more of a Ricky Renteria situation where they'll have someone whose going to be nice and encourage the kids to not worry about mistakes and have fun and then bring in a real coach when they are ready to compete.
- fattybeef

Have you updated the number of teams that are running a defensive system similar to the Hawks system? And it is the Hawks' system, not JC's.

Only excuse I have for the vets struggling with JC's defensive system is that in sports, players are most effective when they are reacting not thinking. Years of playing a certain way has ingrained in them how they should react. Now, they are being expected to do things differently, it's not that they can't do it, it's that it takes a fraction more time because they have to think as opposed to just react. That slight delay is why they get beat to some spots, or are a fraction late to cover or break up passes. It's also why the younger guys may be able to ingest the concepts of it quicker since there is a lot less to re-learn.

None of it is an excuse for the bad fundamental mistakes though.
- TheTrob

Very good points. Totally agree.

Agreed. That is why the Hawks struggles on D is a mixture of both. It looks like guys are out there thinking versus relying on defensive instincts/fundamentals.

I can't count how many times I have seen both D go down low to get a puck carrier and leave the net wide open. If that is a player making a bad read then said player needs to be benched for a game or period. It happens so many times each game.

If it is the system and a forward is supposed to drop down and cover then its a bad system b/c then that puck goes to the point and the Hawks in turn scramble to cover the point and chaos ensues and more often then not someone is wide open for a cross ice pass or easy rebound goal.

I'd rather see a system that allows for errors or lost puck battles that won't implode on itself.

In this system, I don't see any premium on keeping guys to the outside. Why do we need a d-men to aggressively chase the puck carrier along the wall by the dot or down low in the corner and leave the middle of the ice wide open?

If guys are just consistently screwing up Colliton's system and making bad reads then their needs to be some accountability. It has been 2 years in the system and I see zero improvement or changes.
- bhawks2241

All good points especially the bolded.

My starting point for a defensive system would prioritize net front protection at all times. That and inside positioning. It irks me to no end when the Hawks let opponents get in between them and the net.

To your point, there's more risk at chasing the puck all over the zone and leaving the front wide open.

If the puck carrier is behind the net or along the boards. They can't score from there, and if they do, then your defense (and goalie) truly is horrible to let in softies like that which is attributed to poor execution and not any system.

Ben Pope updates from the optional practice:

Optional practice today for the Blackhawks, getting underway now.

Most of the team out here. Mike Hardman looks a little like Toews and I was really thrown for a second there.

Colliton on Toews: "I don't have anything new to report... We hope that's the case [he returns next season.] But there's a lot of time still."

Colliton on scratching Strome last night: "He was a victim of circumstance where we felt we needed 7 defenseman... I've got no problem with Stromer. He's playing hard and trying to do what we're asking him to do."

Calvin de Haan is considered day to day, Jeremy Colliton said.

Boqvist, matter-of-factly: "I'm feeling good. I was in concussion protocol and now I'm not there."

"Just because I was in concussion protocol doesn't mean I had a concussion."

And from Powers:

Beaudin, Boqvist, DeBrincat, Gaudette, Hagel, Hardman, Hinostroza, Keith, Kurashev, Mitchell, Stillman, Strome, Suter, Zadorov are on the ice for the Blackhawks optional practice.

Shalunov has 12 goals and 18 points in 20 playoff games. He has scored a goal in eight of his last 10 games.

Re Shalunov: maybe he's really coming over!!

Having both defenders chase a player with a puck in the corner all of the time means the players are complete morons or there being told to do something stupid.
- fattybeef

Generalizing that even more is it's insane when 2 (or even 3) Hawks players cover the puck carrier. Simple eye test: my teammate is covering the puck carrier, I should cover someone else or at least cover another area...like the slot.

there was a rumor that Vegas was willing to trade strome to Tuch after Tuch had a down year and we wanted a + prospect thrown in. he has had a big bounce back year with 15 EV goals. in retro looks like stan should have pulled the trigger. I guess 8 goals in 34 games is not bad but his assists numbers are way down even from last year. before this year he had 60 assists in 116 games this year 5 in 34. if he had 8 G and 17A like his historical AVG 25 pts in 34 games we would be pretty happy. he has 5 hits this year. that is one more then madison bowey and 1/2 of Patty K. u think there is a chance we expose him? Maybe you agree to expose him and they also agree to trade for somebody like Shaw? INS is going to pay his contract or Dehaan and that free's up some money to sepnd on UFA's. could also work that angle with ZAD and seatle. younger but Established players are probably a good start for Seattle.

also the Dreger report on Toews sounded a little hollow, feels like it might have been fabricated by Hawks front office or Toews agent. this is Just IMO. Coliton quote: I dont have anything new to report We hope that's the case (he returns next season) But there a lot of time still. Coliton is pretty straight shooter and his quote sounds like no one has told him anything? or is it just me.

there was a rumor that Vegas was willing to trade strome to Tuch after Tuch had a down year and we wanted a + prospect thrown in. he has had a big bounce back year with 15 EV goals. in retro looks like stan should have pulled the trigger. I guess 8 goals in 34 games is not bad but his assists numbers are way down even from last year. before this year he had 60 assists in 116 games this year 5 in 34. if he had 8 G and 17A like his historical AVG 25 pts in 34 games we would be pretty happy. he has 5 hits this year. that is one more then madison bowey and 1/2 of Patty K. u think there is a chance we expose him? Maybe you agree to expose him and they also agree to trade for somebody like Shaw? INS is going to pay his contract or Dehaan and that free's up some money to sepnd on UFA's. could also work that angle with ZAD and seatle. younger but Established players are probably a good start for Seattle.

also the Dreger report on Toews sounded a little hollow, feels like it might have been fabricated by Hawks front office or Toews agent. this is Just IMO. Coliton quote: I dont have anything new to report We hope that's the case (he returns next season) But there a lot of time still. Coliton is pretty straight shooter and his quote sounds like no one has told him anything? or is it just me.
- kmw4631

Robin Ventura somehow had a job for 5 years.

Probably more of a Ricky Renteria situation where they'll have someone whose going to be nice and encourage the kids to not worry about mistakes and have fun and then bring in a real coach when they are ready to compete.
- fattybeef

Renteria -> LaRussa = JC -> Pulford? (Both old timers with alcohol issues)?

I just went and watch shalunov's goal on @byscottpowers twitter and it is actually one of the worst Goal tending I have seen in a while. I wonder if putin has told the KHL they want shalunov to score every game or they are in the siberain league'

https://twitter.com/byscottpowers?lang=en

i