YO BUFFALO BOY LETANG NEVER PLAYS DEFENSE AND CONSTANTLY MAKES BLUNDERS ON OFFENSE. GO BACK TO BUFFALO!
- pozone

What (frank)ing bridge did you crawl out of? Might want to go back in until you learn about hockey.

Good blog RW. I (and others) micro focus on the major giveaways and turnovers but really he has and still is a fairly outstanding player.

Agreed on Doughty too... I have no idea why or how he became a poster boy defenceman. He has certainly been a really good player, but I think Letamg has been the better player from a full career perspective. I remember the year he won the Norris it felt like a lifetime achievement award rather than him being the best in the league that year.

Letangs problem is that he has never had that one season where he stood out above everyone else and he kind of plays in Crosbys shadow. Sid, Geno & Fleury will be for sure Hall of famers. I'd be really happy to see Letang get in but it will be a much tougher sell for him at this point. Winning cups always helps though so if he keeps playing Solis and they get another Cup he's in for sure.
- MacPatty

IMO Letang has been Norris caliber three times.

1) The lock out season where I maintain he got robbed for completely inexplicable reasons. Id like to say that if he had not missed a handful of games that season and out scored Suban, he would have won that year, but he somehow finished 3rd behind Suter so maybe not?

2) The year where Karlsson had a historic season and they gave it to Doughty anyways. He got hurt towards the end of the season, missed about 10 games, and didn’t finish as a finalist as a result.

3) 2018-2019 where he missed a (frank) ton of games so he was never going to be considered. I feel like ontop of the injuries, his special level of play that year was overshadowed by building malaise as we got further and further away from the Cup and wasn’t properly appreciated.

Common denominator: Missed games. A true Penguin of Pittsburgh.

It's near impossible for one line/pairing to single handedly lose a series. During the Isles series Johnson-Schultz sure did try hard to do so. But the Habs series Johnson may have accomplished the impossible and done it. He was on the ice for 5 of the Hab's 9 5v5 goals that series and was directly responsible for like 4 of them. I have zero interest in ever watching that guy play hockey again, even if he's helping us out by being extremely bad on the other team.
- Victoro311

And then, as a Ranger, he scores on us!

I do admit, reluctantl, I was excited when they signed him. I thought Gonchar would fix him, he was friends with Sid, and was big enough to move people out of the front of the net. I am also a huge U of M fan...

Alas, I was very wrong....

Karlsson had the most points. That doesn't make him the best defenseman. The voters got it right.
- tkecanuck341

Doughty spent half the season campaigning for votes and telling anyone who would listen about his Norris aspirations

It was embarrassing

Doughty spent half the season campaigning for votes and telling anyone who would listen about his Norris aspirations

It was embarrassing
- TheGame316

Doughty is an ass. Burnsy was always one of my favorites.

And then, as a Ranger, he scores on us!

I do admit, reluctantl, I was excited when they signed him. I thought Gonchar would fix him, he was friends with Sid, and was big enough to move people out of the front of the net. I am also a huge U of M fan...

Alas, I was very wrong....
- Beatnic57

Give him a chance

IMO Letang has been Norris caliber three times.

1) The lock out season where I maintain he got robbed for completely inexplicable reasons. Id like to say that if he had not missed a handful of games that season and out scored Suban, he would have won that year, but he somehow finished 3rd behind Suter so maybe not?

2) The year where Karlsson had a historic season and they gave it to Doughty anyways. He got hurt towards the end of the season, missed about 10 games, and didn’t finish as a finalist as a result.

3) 2018-2019 where he missed a (frank) ton of games so he was never going to be considered. I feel like ontop of the injuries, his special level of play that year was overshadowed by building malaise as we got further and further away from the Cup and wasn’t properly appreciated.

Common denominator: Missed games. A true Penguin of Pittsburgh.
- Victoro311

Letang also got robbed with the comeback player of the year award. Wasn't it Dubynk? That was a joke for sure.

Doughty spent half the season campaigning for votes and telling anyone who would listen about his Norris aspirations

It was embarrassing
- TheGame316

Doughty was a dominant D-man for a 3-4 year stretch, top-3 in league.
His Norris win was legit.

I agree with RW that Letang should be a HOFer. Is MAF?
- SuperHenderson13

Is this REALLY even a question anymore? Everyone agrees that Lundqvist is a definitive HOF'er, why is MAF still a ?. Played 4 less games than Hank, 33 more wins, 34 less losses, 3 more shutouts, 3 Cups(zero for Hank), as of tonight a Jennings(which Hank never won), and depending on tomorrow's game , possibly a President's trophy and what should be Vezina top 3 this season...one which he was supposed to be nothing but Lehner's backup. 3rd in all time wins and at the rate he's still playing, a serious shot at passing Roy for 2nd. Philly playoff meltdown or not, MAF is a guaranteed HOF'er even if he never plays another game.

Is this REALLY even a question anymore? Everyone agrees that Lundqvist is a definitive HOF'er, why is MAF still a ?. Played 4 less games than Hank, 33 more wins, 34 less losses, 3 more shutouts, 3 Cups(zero for Hank), as of tonight a Jennings(which Hank never won), and depending on tomorrow's game , possibly a President's trophy and what should be Vezina top 3 this season...one which he was supposed to be nothing but Lehner's backup. 3rd in all time wins and at the rate he's still playing, a serious shot at passing Roy for 2nd. Philly playoff meltdown or not, MAF is a guaranteed HOF'er even if he never plays another game.

- Pags

Yea MAF is definitely going to the HOF.

Is this REALLY even a question anymore? Everyone agrees that Lundqvist is a definitive HOF'er, why is MAF still a ?. Played 4 less games than Hank, 33 more wins, 34 less losses, 3 more shutouts, 3 Cups(zero for Hank), as of tonight a Jennings(which Hank never won), and depending on tomorrow's game , possibly a President's trophy and what should be Vezina top 3 this season...one which he was supposed to be nothing but Lehner's backup. 3rd in all time wins and at the rate he's still playing, a serious shot at passing Roy for 2nd. Philly playoff meltdown or not, MAF is a guaranteed HOF'er even if he never plays another game.

- Pags

I love MAF. I hope he gets in. That said, it really comes down to how much you value wins as a goalie stat vs a team stat. If he had actually won 3 Cups hen I think we could put this conversation to bed, but he really only won 1.5 and lost the only game he started in the 2016 Cup run. I thinking making two other Cup finals while playing excellent hockey both times should weigh positively for him and hopefully more than negate that ~3 year stretch where he was a disaster in the playoffs.

MAFs definitely the beneficiary of being on good teams, but he also wouldn’t have been starting on those teams for as long as he had been if he hadn’t been so consistently good for so long. Longevity in goalies is impressive with the way they rise and fade in meteoric fashion. I know that was the argument with Miller a few weeks ago, but MAF’s also achieved more.

Zach Aston-Reece

100th percentile in even strength defense

Pretty good finisher

Can’t make a play to save his life

What a weird but glorious player

https://twitter.com/jmars.../1392815531187703809?s=21

Zach Aston-Reece

100th percentile in even strength defense

Pretty good finisher

Can’t make a play to save his life

What a weird but glorious player

https://twitter.com/jmars.../1392815531187703809?s=21
- Victoro311

hahaha thats the first time seeing 100% even strength defense for me. RW poses a great question in the comments of that.

I've always been a ZAR supporter.

I love MAF. I hope he gets in. That said, it really comes down to how much you value wins as a goalie stat vs a team stat. If he had actually won 3 Cups hen I think we could put this conversation to bed, but he really only won 1.5 and lost the only game he started in the 2016 Cup run. I thinking making two other Cup finals while playing excellent hockey both times should weigh positively for him and hopefully more than negate that ~3 year stretch where he was a disaster in the playoffs.

MAFs definitely the beneficiary of being on good teams, but he also wouldn’t have been starting on those teams for as long as he had been if he hadn’t been so consistently good for so long. Longevity in goalies is impressive with the way they rise and fade in meteoric fashion. I know that was the argument with Miller a few weeks ago, but MAF’s also achieved more.
- Victoro311

MAF is going in the hall.

Zach Aston-Reece

100th percentile in even strength defense

Pretty good finisher

Can’t make a play to save his life

What a weird but glorious player

https://twitter.com/jmars.../1392815531187703809?s=21
- Victoro311

While he still frustrates me to watch at times, I've definitely come around on him.

Give him a chance
- 668710

We actually did haha He blew it.

While he still frustrates me to watch at times, I've definitely come around on him.
- Rinosaur

Quiet dude with not so much speed but high hockey IQ defensively. Nice complimentary player to have in the 4th line.

hahaha thats the first time seeing 100% even strength defense for me. RW poses a great question in the comments of that.

I've always been a ZAR supporter.
- MattStrat

Haha my first thought when I saw him in the mentions was here’s next blog. Copy and paste of Jesse’s tweet and a handful of paragraphs rephrasing the same question over and over again.

Thanks for reading!

EDIT: Jesse, not Dom

Here we go again. MAF's success in Las Vegas, combined with his longevity are a testimony to his greatness. His time with the Pens is not as much due to the high risk style of play the team usually has had (for when Letang is the poster child), which often has left him hung out to dry and needing to make very difficult if not impossible saves. The 2012 playoffs were the worst example. After really being hung out to dry by his team he lost his nerve and started letting in soft goals.

The comparison I always like make is to imagine him and Brodeur swapping careers. Brodeur would have likely looked very average behind some of the high risk Pens' systems over the years. Likewise, Fleury would have incredible save % and GAA numbers if he played behind NJ's trap and nearly impenetrable defenses of the late 90's/early 2000's. Las Vegas plays a less risky/more defensively responsible style of play and MAF's success there is a small taste of what his career could have been under different circumstances.

The high risk style of play of the Pens seems to burn out goalies, from my observation. The good thing in the latter half of this season at least is that they have not been putting the goalies in as many bad spots, which bodes well for a playoff run.

Amazing story about Crosby and Malkin's relationship


https://www.google.com/am...l-quiet-friendship/%3famp

Here we go again. MAF's success in Las Vegas, combined with his longevity are a testimony to his greatness. His time with the Pens is not as much due to the high risk style of play the team usually has had (for when Letang is the poster child), which often has left him hung out to dry and needing to make very difficult if not impossible saves. The 2012 playoffs were the worst example. After really being hung out to dry by his team he lost his nerve and started letting in soft goals.

The comparison I always like make is to imagine him and Brodeur swapping careers. Brodeur would have likely looked very average behind some of the high risk Pens' systems over the years. Likewise, Fleury would have incredible save % and GAA numbers if he played behind NJ's trap and nearly impenetrable defenses of the late 90's/early 2000's. Las Vegas plays a less risky/more defensively responsible style of play and MAF's success there is a small taste of what his career could have been under different circumstances.

The high risk style of play of the Pens seems to burn out goalies, from my observation. The good thing in the latter half of this season at least is that they have not been putting the goalies in as many bad spots, which bodes well for a playoff run.
- PghPens668771

I completely agree with everything you say here. One of my good friends said "It's great to see Fleury Revitize his career in Vegas." I looked at him and said "Could you imagine what Fleury's numbers would have looked like if the Pens were as committed to D as Vegas is?" He would have won at least two Vienzas!

With all the hype about have two generational players, Crosby and Malkin, on the Pens; imagine if we would have been a little more committed to D what could have been with Fleury...

Fleury is the face of Vegas...


Fleury will be a 1st ballet HOFer because he is an amazing player and an amazing person.

I completely agree with everything you say here. One of my good friends said "It's great to see Fleury Revitize his career in Vegas." I looked at him and said "Could you imagine what Fleury's numbers would have looked like if the Pens were as committed to D as Vegas is?" He would have won at least two Vienzas!

With all the hype about have two generational players, Crosby and Malkin, on the Pens; imagine if we would have been a little more committed to D what could have been with Fleury...

Fleury is the face of Vegas...


Fleury will be a 1st ballet HOFer because he is an amazing player and an amazing person.
- Beatnic57

I have a feeling he’ll do a farewell tour with Pitt. I don’t think we’ve seen the last of him.

Haha my first thought when I saw him in the mentions was here’s next blog. Copy and paste of Jesse’s tweet and a handful of paragraphs rephrasing the same question over and over again.

Thanks for reading!

EDIT: Jesse, not Dom
- Victoro311

Accurate af.

Amazing story about Crosby and Malkin's relationship


https://www.google.com/am...l-quiet-friendship/%3famp
- Beatnic57

Damn I wish I could read that lol

I completely agree with everything you say here. One of my good friends said "It's great to see Fleury Revitize his career in Vegas." I looked at him and said "Could you imagine what Fleury's numbers would have looked like if the Pens were as committed to D as Vegas is?" He would have won at least two Vienzas!

With all the hype about have two generational players, Crosby and Malkin, on the Pens; imagine if we would have been a little more committed to D what could have been with Fleury...

Fleury is the face of Vegas...


Fleury will be a 1st ballet HOFer because he is an amazing player and an amazing person.
- Beatnic57

Pens gave up 2.82 goals per game from 2003-2017
Vegas has given up 2.69 goals per game from their creation.


.13 goals per game ain't that big of a difference.