Good thing Crawford didn't use Gretzky in 98 Nagano Olympics against Hasek. What would he know about scoring goals?
- gergeswillems

In the history of (frank)ed up decisions huh?

Not only are the habs losing, which is fine because they were the obvious underdogs in that series, but they're losing without giving their young players the much needed experience in the playoffs.

They're also misusing them so goddamn badly by giving them no stability with linemates all year.

Anyway, there will be a time to discuss this after everyone gets fired in the summer but holy crap this is disappointing.
- Scabeh

Have to think Ducharme felt that they could beat the Leafs by going with the more experienced guys.. Which is fine, I mean, it's also totally wrong, but fine..

Good thing Crawford didn't use Gretzky in 98 Nagano Olympics against Hasek. What would he know about scoring goals?
- gergeswillems

Also, not naming Wayne the captain of that 98 team was odd.

Have to think Ducharme felt that they could beat the Leafs by going with the more experienced guys.. Which is fine, I mean, it's also totally wrong, but fine..
- PatC80

It was an idea.

It was a bad idea.

Sadly this is a league where you're judged on your results.

Unless the miracle of a comeback happens, results are simply not there under his rule.

Subban won a Norris too.
- gergeswillems

Mike Rathje got Norris votes in 2004 after putting up a whopping 19 points.

Mike Rathje got Norris votes in 2004 after putting up a whopping 19 points.
- BINGO!

*inserts KKKaptaan comment*
- AdamFrench

I think he was banned as well. Maybe not. I'll still tell him to go (frank) himself again if needed. I'll gladly take bans for feeding racist idiots their lunch. Ever notice each time someone makes a racist comment KKKap comes running to defend it?

Dumb (frank) played for forever with Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Yzerman.

When you spend most of your career playing with the top 5 point producers in the history of the game you should probably rack up a lot of points.
- BINGO!

He did. And he made them better just like they made him better. Those same guys you mentioned played a lot of games with a lot of defensemen - and none of them racked up the totals that Paul Coffey did. For example, he goes to Pittsburgh has 113 points in a season, the next closest Defenseman has 45 - or the next year when that same disparity was 103-31.

This is the same as people saying that Scotty Bowman wasn't a good coach because he coached good teams.

Also, not naming Wayne the captain of that 98 team was odd.
- PatC80

Lindros wasn't it?

Mike Rathje got Norris votes in 2004 after putting up a whopping 19 points.
- BINGO!

Rod Langway won two Norris trophies

Lindros wasn't it?
- gergeswillems

yessir

I think he was banned as well. Maybe not. I'll still tell him to go (frank) himself again if needed. I'll gladly take bans for feeding racist idiots their lunch. Ever notice each time someone makes a racist comment KKKap comes running to defend it?
- gergeswillems

Unless it's on the three boards I post on, no. But it sounds about right.

Not really, for the following reasons:

Winnipeg sucks
(frank) Winnipeg
- TheMussel

Shut down McDavid and Draisaitl win game.

Leafs have shown that even having no Tavares and Montreal doing a decent job of shutting down matthews and marner they have depth.

Plus like 3 weeks ago Winnipeg sucked bad. I think they got lucky they got to play with against a terrible Oiler team.

14 time All Star
4 time Cup Winner
3 time Norris Trophy Winner
3 time Canada Cup winner

21 year career

Also, second all-time among NHL defencemen in goals, assists, and points.. I think you're too hard on him.
- PatC80

Without checking, I would guess he's at the top (or near the top) for most number of teams played by a HHOFer.

Shanny's probably up there.

Jagr will be.

Lindros wasn't it?
- gergeswillems

Bobby Clark was in love. Can you blame him?

It didn't matter, players gravitated towards Wayne naturally.

It's too bad Lemieux had just retired... imagine adding him to that roster.

Shut down McDavid and Draisaitl win game.

Leafs have shown that even having no Tavares and Montreal doing a decent job of shutting down matthews and marner they have depth.

Plus like 3 weeks ago Winnipeg sucked bad. I think they got lucky they got to play with against a terrible Oiler team.
- bryant

They won 3 games in OT as well, not exactly crushing the Oilers.

Subban won a Norris too.
- gergeswillems

It's a shocking thing to say, but in that year he probably deserved it. It was a shortened year, and had they played a full 82, I don't know if he sustains that level of play, but based on your measurable metrics, Subban was right there with Suter and Letang, and probably the better choice between them.

The year Carlyle won there were probably about 6 or 7 better options, including 20 year old Ray Bourque. Carlyle was -16, mind you, so perhaps the perception of defense was different in 1980.

Bobby Clark was in love. Can you blame him?

It didn't matter, players gravitated towards Wayne naturally.

It's too bad Lemieux had just retired... imagine adding him to that roster.

- Scabeh

Yeah, he would have sat next to Wayne on the bench as the 5 shooters all failed to score on Hasek

It's a shocking thing to say, but in that year he probably deserved it. It was a shortened year, and had they played a full 82, I don't know if he sustains that level of play, but based on your measurable metrics, Subban was right there with Suter and Letang, and probably the better choice between them.

The year Carlyle won there were probably about 6 or 7 better options, including 20 year old Ray Bourque. Carlyle was -16, mind you, so perhaps the perception of defense was different in 1980.
- Monkeypunk

The thing with Carlyle though, he still put up really good offensive numbers.. How do you explain Rod Langway winning the award twice?

Bobby Clark was in love. Can you blame him?

It didn't matter, players gravitated towards Wayne naturally.

It's too bad Lemieux had just retired... imagine adding him to that roster.

- Scabeh

Yeah that was before Lindros and Clarke started hating each other. Lindros was a great player. He dominated. But he wasn't a leader. I'll always remember how ineffective he was in the 1997 SCF vs Detroit. He scored his first goal of the series in the last minute of game 4.

It's too bad Mario had all those injuries. What a fantastic player he was.

The thing with Carlyle though, he still put up really good offensive numbers.. How do you explain Rod Langway winning the award twice?
- PatC80

That's back in the early 80s when being a defensive stay at home defenseman was valued. Offense took over and guys like Langway were taken for granted.

Without checking, I would guess he's at the top (or near the top) for most number of teams played by a HHOFer.

Shanny's probably up there.

Jagr will be.
- Atomic Wedgie

Just checked.. Paul Café played for 9 teams..

It's a shocking thing to say, but in that year he probably deserved it. It was a shortened year, and had they played a full 82, I don't know if he sustains that level of play, but based on your measurable metrics, Subban was right there with Suter and Letang, and probably the better choice between them.

The year Carlyle won there were probably about 6 or 7 better options, including 20 year old Ray Bourque. Carlyle was -16, mind you, so perhaps the perception of defense was different in 1980.
- Monkeypunk

I have no problem with Subban winning the Norris. He deserved it. It's just funny looking back at it now. Subban won a Norris?

That's back in the early 80s when being a defensive stay at home defenseman was valued. Offense took over and guys like Langway were taken for granted.
- gergeswillems

that would be my guess...

I don't think you'll ever see another 3 goal, 32 point Norris trophy winner again.

Yeah that was before Lindros and Clarke started hating each other. Lindros was a great player. He dominated. But he wasn't a leader. I'll always remember how ineffective he was in the 1997 SCF vs Detroit. He scored his first goal of the series in the last minute of game 4.

It's too bad Mario had all those injuries. What a fantastic player he was.
- gergeswillems

Best player I've ever seen play.

Even after a year off, after cancer, after the back injuries, he was a dominant player.

I own only 1 jersey from another team than Montreal.

It's a Lemieux jersey.