agreed. Its gotta be a "painful" one but its for the good and success of the team. This has not worked out....Mind you Tampa kinda went through this to a lesser extent. First round exits before they ultimately won. And Stamkos was out for it.

No excuses, but the impact of JT not being there is one we cant deny either. People call him the bigger choker, but I dunno.
- mel_vin

the Leafs won three games without Tavares, we can't now say we needed him because we lost the next 3 games

Thornton was complete and total dead weight, on top of which he cost the leafs multiple times. Spezza banking a puck off of his dead ass doesn't absolve him. Of anything.

You need players who can move in the playoffs, not a tree with skates tied to it that you need to push around with a stick.
- joel878

He has NO IDEA how a Cup winning team is built.

I cant think of a trade that didnt set a franchise back where a star was traded for a package of lesser pieces.

Think this needs to be a 1 for 1.
- Santo_44

Oh? How about Colorado trading Duchene. How'd that work out...

The leafs have the benefit of having enough high end players. Inability to find balance due to to much cap at the top end has been their struggle. You don't alleviate that strain by making side steps.

There were better options like Perry who I always wanted them to sign.
- Archaic

We still would of lost and you'd likely be here saying the same thing

He has NO IDEA how a Cup winning team is built.
- fifty__missions

I think so too, there were high expectations this year and they failed.

They can't just trim the edges of the roster and hope things get better.
- PatC80

Yep that's exactly it

Not his fault, Tavares got hurt or that Matthews and Marner forgot how to score.

Can't blame Dubas, when your best forwards in the playoffs are Nylander and Jason Spezza
- PatC80

Yeah, but like, Foligno sucked. Did Simmonds even play? Jumbo?

When the top guys got hurt or got locked down, there was nobody left to pick up the slack. I dunno. I didn't like a lot of the moves at the time and still don't right now.

This team needs a Masai Ujiri moment. Someone in management who can man up and admit that this team's core cannot win. The verdict is more than in on that. And then, go out and make the right moves. If they don't believe Dubas can do it, he should be gone.
- fifty__missions

yup

I mean Leaf fans always overreact...Tampa and WSH went through similar staged with their core.

Ours seems worse though that's for sure, and Leaf fans dont have the same patients.
- Santo_44

Tampa and Washington never went 0-8 with the opportunity to close out a series.

There have been many of us here who have been advocating for this for some time now. Suddenly we're right?? Because you now say so???
You want ME to move along?
Go (frank) yourself, bro.
- fifty__missions

You were advocating for it at stupid times.

When it needs to happen it needs to happen.

Sorry for not agreeing with you on it last year, I hope you didnt lose too much sleep over it.

Tampa and Washington never went 0-8 with the opportunity to close out a series.
- joel878

I said it was worse.

But similar for sure. Cores not being able to get it done.

I mean Leaf fans always overreact...Tampa and WSH went through similar staged with their core.

Ours seems worse though that's for sure, and Leaf fans dont have the same patients.
- Santo_44

Washington eventually let Semin walk.

Yeah, but like, Foligno sucked. Did Simmonds even play? Jumbo?

When the top guys got hurt or got locked down, there was nobody left to pick up the slack. I dunno. I didn't like a lot of the moves at the time and still don't right now.
- BINGO!

Yup.... Leafs almost won despite having alot of passengers who had little to no impact on the series.

There might have been better options out there.... The wedgie prediction thread will show how I felt about Simmonds at the time.... my opinion hasn't changed at all.

Foligno was worse than I could have ever expected. Mind you, I hadn't watched him all year.

How do you blame Dubas for the Foligno/Thornton/Simmonds moves? Everyone was so excited when those were done.

I blame the players, and the players only for this loss.
- PatC80

So honestly - were you excited to sign 41 year old Joe Thornton? Or broken Wayne Simmonds? I'm being negative here, but that's how I felt when they signed both of them. Especially Simmonds at $1.5m.

Thornton was coming off of a 31 point 70 game season where he was -19. You take the age factor and the trajectory of his play, and this was predictable. Friends said to me, "How can you complain about signing a guy for league minimum?", and I said - and stand by it - "Because he's finished, should have retired, and how do you bench a beloved Hall of Fame player in front of your young core? You're stuck with him in the lineup no matter how he plays." If we go back to the preseason, I probably made this point about Thornton in one of our threads.

Simmonds was more influential with the team than I thought he'd be, but his points project out to where you'd be expect them to be in terms of his career trend over the past few years - 46, 30, 28, 18 (this year) - all of which he was a minus player. I was hopeful he'd bring toughness, but really I can think of two times this year when he stepped up physically to create momentum. There's usually an obvious trend you see in physical players who are breaking down. I hate to be callous, but it's not a new pattern.

They didn't lose because of these two - but they weren't helped. I felt that whatever line Thornton was on this year was playing short-handed because he couldn't keep up, couldn't battle and as a result was out of position and losing the puck.

I'm glad he'll be gone.

Yeah, but like, Foligno sucked. Did Simmonds even play? Jumbo?

When the top guys got hurt or got locked down, there was nobody left to pick up the slack. I dunno. I didn't like a lot of the moves at the time and still don't right now.
- BINGO!

Yes, and I believe this is a classic side effect of having too much money tied to the top few players on your roster. They are forced to bargain bin hunt every summer, its a never ending chain of gambles and new faces.

How do you blame Dubas for the Foligno/Thornton/Simmonds moves? Everyone was so excited when those were done.

I blame the players, and the players only for this loss.
- PatC80

Loading up on old guys that are way past their prime, injury histories, and have no cups to show for.

Like I said, in order of blame (with Stank Percentages), players (75%), coaches (20%), Dubas (5%).

I thought Campbell played great that series and was one of the better Leaf players on the ice last night.
- Santo_44

Sorry, that was a bad goal.

Washington eventually let Semin walk.
- BINGO!

And green. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh? How about Colorado trading Duchene. How'd that work out...

The leafs have the benefit of having enough high end players. Inability to find balance due to to much cap at the top end has been their struggle. You don't alleviate that strain by making side steps.
- joel878

If Marner played well that series we would be facing the Jets right now.

Im focusing on the fact a star player forgot how to play hockey for 7 games.

Overall I liked the team seems like most people thought the same before the sky started to fall.

I thought Campbell played great that series and was one of the better Leaf players on the ice last night.
- Santo_44

1st goal was on him. Yes, Marner turned the puck over at the Habs blue line, but he should have stopped it..

Campbell only allowed 2 goals in game 1 and game 7, Leafs lost both.. Only gave up 13 goals in 7 playoff games.. Campbell was great this year.

You were advocating for it at stupid times.

When it needs to happen it needs to happen.

Sorry for not agreeing with you on it last year, I hope you didnt lose too much sleep over it.
- Santo_44

When's that? When YOU say so??
Don't worry Santo. Would never lose sleep over a hypocritical, pompous, self righteous jackass like yourself.

We still would of lost and you'd likely be here saying the same thing
- Santo_44

That could be true, but Thornton still wasnt a good signing. The reason they lost is because our best players decided to suck....its true.

Yup.... Leafs almost won despite having alot of passengers who had little to no impact on the series.

There might have been better options out there.... The wedgie prediction thread will show how I felt about Simmonds at the time.... my opinion hasn't changed at all.

Foligno was worse than I could have ever expected. Mind you, I hadn't watched him all year.
- Scabeh

Foligno had zero impact in Columbus. Dude was the captain there and really didn't do much other than throw a questionable hit every game.

It was a really weird move for a beat up old grinder.

Washington eventually let Semin walk.
- BINGO!

Yeah that and the Oshie addition were the biggest success moves in their bad run.

If Marner played well that series we would be facing the Jets right now.

Im focusing on the fact a star player forgot how to play hockey for 7 games.

Overall I liked the team seems like most people thought the same before the sky started to fall.
- Santo_44

If we're playing for the second round that's great. But one player not poopting the bed doesn't make the team go from struggle to not choke against bottom seed in the division to challenge for a cup. There's too large of a gap there.

We'd be shooting ourselves in the foot to pretend things are fine even if we win last night.