I honestly don't know enough about Cholowski to answer that, so I won't pretend lol.

From what I saw in POJ I think he moves the puck incredibly well, has great poise, good offensive instinct, awareness and shows the potential to be above average positionally. Not to beat the dead horse, but he really didn't start to crack until they moved him up to the first pair which he clearly isn't ready for, but when he was on the third pair he was outstanding.
- Rinosaur

Dunno. I see another overrated Pouliot Koekkoek Cholowski type. Outside of 30 mins with Ruh he was awful.

Dunno. I see another overrated Pouliot Koekkoek Cholowski type. Outside of 30 mins with Ruh he was awful.
- Feds91Stammer

I know you're relying on advanced stats here, but dude is a 21 year old rookie who had his first taste of the NHL this year. You need to pay attention to the potential you see as much as you do the fancy stats. He's a work-in-progress, but IMO he's clearly got the goods.

I know you're relying on advanced stats here, but dude is a 21 year old rookie who had his first taste of the NHL this year. You need to pay attention to the potential you see as much as you do the fancy stats. He's a work-in-progress, but IMO he's clearly got the goods.
- Rinosaur

I think you underestimate how many Pens games Feds watches (specifically because of this board being one of the most active) lol

I think you underestimate how many Pens games Feds watches (specifically because of this board being one of the most active) lol
- j.boyd919

I don't underestimate how many games he watches. The areas I tend to disagree with him and you as well, is at least how I perceive your reliance on advanced stats to tell the story.

I'm definitely a fan of advanced stats and I do think they're very telling, but I just think it only tells part of the story. I think you, him and I just evaluate things differently.

I know you're relying on advanced stats here, but dude is a 21 year old rookie who had his first taste of the NHL this year. You need to pay attention to the potential you see as much as you do the fancy stats. He's a work-in-progress, but IMO he's clearly got the goods.
- Rinosaur

I see a guy with a 3rd pair ceiling. Dunno what goods you’re seeing.

I don't underestimate how many games he watches. The areas I tend to disagree with him and you as well, is at least how I perceive your reliance on advanced stats to tell the story.

I'm definitely a fan of advanced stats and I do think they're very telling, but I just think it only tells part of the story. I think you, him and I just evaluate things differently.
- Rinosaur

I’m not even relying on analytics. I see him fitting in an archetype that routinely busts in the NHL.

I see a guy with a 3rd pair ceiling. Dunno what goods you’re seeing.
- Feds91Stammer

I see a very good 2nd pairing offensive dman.

I don't underestimate how many games he watches. The areas I tend to disagree with him and you as well, is at least how I perceive your reliance on advanced stats to tell the story.

I'm definitely a fan of advanced stats and I do think they're very telling, but I just think it only tells part of the story. I think you, him and I just evaluate things differently.
- Rinosaur

I definitely agree with that. Even in watching him I didn't find him all that impressive. Was kind of a dumpster fire positionally.

I’m not even relying on analytics. I see him fitting in an archetype that routinely busts in the NHL.
- Feds91Stammer

That's fine. We just disagree with what we're seeing.

I see a very good 2nd pairing offensive dman.
- Rinosaur

Can't say I see anything offensive about POJ. His highest point total in the Q was 46 points. His highest point total in the AHL was 17 in 52. If he's not lighting up the AHL, it's highly unlikely he's going to be an offensive defenseman in the NHL.

I definitely agree with that. Even in watching him I didn't find him all that impressive. Was kind of a dumpster fire positionally.
- j.boyd919

I don't think he was until he was facing better competition by playing on the first pair. Also, again, I talked about the potential. Like many rookies he totally was getting caught out of position because the game was just moving too fast for him, but had plenty of moments that showed the ability to be good positionally, so IMO the potential is there.

Mind you, I'm not against moving him if the deal is right. I just don't think he's a "meh" prospect.

I don't think he was until he was facing better competition by playing on the first pair. Also, again, I talked about the potential. Like many rookies he totally was getting caught out of position because the game was just moving too fast for him, but had plenty of moments that showed the ability to be good positionally, so IMO the potential is there.

Mind you, I'm not against moving him if the deal is right. I just don't think he's a "meh" prospect.
- Rinosaur

I think 3rd pair LD is his ceiling maybe low end 2nd pair support player ala Dumoulin, but I also think that is valuable to have a player that can do that on the cheap contract. Only thing that sucks about it, is the Pens already have Matheson that needs sheltered and apparently Petts considering Sully played them at 3rd pair minutes in the playoffs, if I recall lol

Can't say I see anything offensive about POJ. His highest point total in the Q was 46 points. His highest point total in the AHL was 17 in 52. If he's not lighting up the AHL, it's highly unlikely he's going to be an offensive defenseman in the NHL.
- j.boyd919

5 points in 16 NHL games doesn't scream OMG, but for his small stint I think it's there. I thought he had a solid shot, moved well with the puck along the blue line and I was very impressed by his ability to move the puck end to end.

I think 3rd pair LD is his ceiling maybe low end 2nd pair support player ala Dumoulin, but I also think that is valuable to have a player that can do that on the cheap contract. Only thing that sucks about it, is the Pens already have Matheson that needs sheltered and apparently Petts considering Sully played them at 3rd pair minutes in the playoffs, if I recall lol
- j.boyd919

You may ultimately be right. I'm just talking about the potential at this point. I agree in what you think is valuable in him and I also think he carries decent value in a trade, not GREAT, but decent.

You may ultimately be right. I'm just talking about the potential at this point. I agree in what you think is valuable in him and I also think he carries decent value in a trade, not GREAT, but decent.
- Rinosaur

We are all talking potential and it’s just not there.

We are all talking potential and it’s just not there.
- Feds91Stammer

To you it's not there.

5 points in 16 NHL games doesn't scream OMG, but for his small stint I think it's there. I thought he had a solid shot, moved well with the puck along the blue line and I was very impressed by his ability to move the puck end to end.
- Rinosaur

I think he looks similar in style to and he has the tool set of Dumo, who wasn't an effective NHLer until 25 and only put up 39 points in his first 126 AHL games. This isnt me saying he's going to turn into a 1st pairing guy that compliments a high end risk taking D stud very well but I do see some potential in his play.

In saying all that I wouldn't lose a second of sleep he was traded in a package that helps the team more the next few seasons.

I think he looks similar in style to and he has the tool set of Dumo, who wasn't an effective NHLer until 25 and only put up 39 points in his first 126 AHL games. This isnt me saying he's going to turn into a 1st pairing guy that compliments a high end risk taking D stud very well but I do see some potential in his play.

In saying all that I wouldn't lose a second of sleep he was traded in a package that helps the team more the next few seasons.
- MattStrat

I wouldn't either and that wasn't what originally sparked this. Feds was saying he's a "meh" prospect and I think is a good prospect.

Not sure what’s reported out there but that sly dog Billy G is working his way to snag Eichel… I’ve heard about Rangers and Kings being leaders for him but I’d guess rangers won’t be as hot on him with Gallant there now.

We are all talking potential and it’s just not there.
- Feds91Stammer

Im sure you would have said the same thing about Letang. It is rare that a defenceman can come in and make an impact before 23 or 24. There are some of course that stand out but even great players like Hedman, Letang, Chara took a bit of time to make a big impact in the NHL. Shea Theodore might be a great example, where he had a couple of tough years in his early 20's and then got his shot with the Knights and everything started to click.

I don't think POJ will be as good as any of those guys, but he has a lot of the tools and the next few years will get bigger, stronger and smarter. I think he is going to end up as a pretty decent top pair guy, at a minimum he looks like a really good top 4 player.

In another 2 years he is going to be making a big impact on this team.

Not sure what’s reported out there but that sly dog Billy G is working his way to snag Eichel… I’ve heard about Rangers and Kings being leaders for him but I’d guess rangers won’t be as hot on him with Gallant there now.
- pens4life-66

That would be an interesting thing to see play out. I'd have to think Boldy is that center of what Buffalo would want.

I think he looks similar in style to and he has the tool set of Dumo, who wasn't an effective NHLer until 25 and only put up 39 points in his first 126 AHL games. This isnt me saying he's going to turn into a 1st pairing guy that compliments a high end risk taking D stud very well but I do see some potential in his play.

In saying all that I wouldn't lose a second of sleep he was traded in a package that helps the team more the next few seasons.
- MattStrat

That's kind of where I lean, I think he'll be a decent support player for a more offensively minded partner but more for a 2nd-3rd pair. More likely 3rd pair imo.

Not sure what’s reported out there but that sly dog Billy G is working his way to snag Eichel… I’ve heard about Rangers and Kings being leaders for him but I’d guess rangers won’t be as hot on him with Gallant there now.
- pens4life-66

Its going to burn when he trades our 1st, Addison and a 1st this year for Eichel... and we are sitting here with Zucker...

Im sure you would have said the same thing about Letang. It is rare that a defenceman can come in and make an impact before 23 or 24. There are some of course that stand out but even great players like Hedman, Letang, Chara took a bit of time to make a big impact in the NHL. Shea Theodore might be a great example, where he had a couple of tough years in his early 20's and then got his shot with the Knights and everything started to click.

I don't think POJ will be as good as any of those guys, but he has a lot of the tools and the next few years will get bigger, stronger and smarter. I think he is going to end up as a pretty decent top pair guy, at a minimum he looks like a really good top 4 player.

In another 2 years he is going to be making a big impact on this team.
- MacPatty

In DY+4 Letang put up 13 points in 23 playoff games to win a cup. So yeah perfect comparable.

I wouldn't either and that wasn't what originally sparked this. Feds was saying he's a "meh" prospect and I think is a good prospect.
- Rinosaur

He’s as meh as it gets.