With how good the Islanders have been and reevaluating how well the Pens played against them, it’s clear goaltending was the main issue.

The problem is that Hextall and Burke are pushing the bigger/stronger narrative, so we pretty much have to accept reality and just hope whatever moves are made don’t lower the quality in leu of physicality.
- Rinosaur

There's nothing wrong with adding physicality if the player can actually play. You don't want a Tanner Glass/Zac Rinaldo/Eric Goddard type. But honestly, even Ryan Reaves wasn't a bad player; trading a 1st rounder for him was just poor asset management. If you can have 2-3 guys in the bottom 6 who can play physical, be responsible on the defensive side of the puck, and chip is some supplemental offense, that's not a terrible thing. You just can't sacrifice skill for size/physicality.

Im sick and tired of hearing about how the Pens need to get bigger and stronger.
Goaltending lost the series, plain and simple. It could be the Pens facing Tampa if Jarry actually had a clue and didnt give us his best Marc Andre Fleury circa 2012 impersonation.
- Amanion

Maybe we need to give the Islanders some credit here. After all they made Rask an .897 goalie.

PK was 27th in the league this season, he didn't shut a god damn thing down.
- j.boyd919

Wasn’t speaking to the effectiveness of the PK, just his scoring rate vs his deployment,

(which is non offensive PK minutes and in a shutdown role against the other teams top lines)

Reading is hard...

With how good the Islanders have been and reevaluating how well the Pens played against them, it’s clear goaltending was the main issue.

The problem is that Hextall and Burke are pushing the bigger/stronger narrative, so we pretty much have to accept reality and just hope whatever moves are made don’t lower the quality in leu of physicality.
- Rinosaur

I'm unsure why it took the Isles making a legit Cup run to get to that conclusion. I'd say there's been less hand wringing on here than the past couple of years with the bulk of posters acknowledging it was goal tending, but the trade Jake stuff has been weird.

Trade everyone except 87 and 58

There's nothing wrong with adding physicality if the player can actually play. You don't want a Tanner Glass/Zac Rinaldo/Eric Goddard type. But honestly, even Ryan Reaves wasn't a bad player; trading a 1st rounder for him was just poor asset management. If you can have 2-3 guys in the bottom 6 who can play physical, be responsible on the defensive side of the puck, and chip is some supplemental offense, that's not a terrible thing. You just can't sacrifice skill for size/physicality.
- jmatchett383

Not at all. That's why I said hopefully they don't add size/strength in leu of quality. Finding those physical players who can also play is difficult and I just hope they don't do it for the sake of doing it. Adding those 2-3 bottom six players is much easier said than done. When there are players who can play well defensively and add that physical edge they generally come with a decent price.

I agree, Reaves wasn't/isn't a bad player and was misused by Sullivan because that's not what Sullivan wants.

I'm unsure why it took the Isles making a legit Cup run to get to that conclusion. I'd say there's been less hand wringing on here than the past couple of years with the bulk of posters acknowledging it was goal tending, but the trade Jake stuff has been weird.
- Victoro311

It's been very weird. I brought it up once or twice simply because I/we don't know how Hextall and Burke view a lot of these players. I don't think anyone here legitimately wants Jake to be traded, but do we know for sure he'll be back?

We can assume that they're fully aware Jake is one of the best wingers in the league and he should not be moved, but do we know that for sure? How badly do they want to bring in someone LIKE Landeskog or B. Schenn, and to what lengths are they willing to make that happen?

JR was very open and transparent about who is a staple, so I think until everything actually happens we simply have no idea of their value system.

Wasn’t speaking to the effectiveness of the PK, just his scoring rate vs his deployment,

(which is non offensive PK minutes and in a shutdown role against the other teams top lines)

Reading is hard...
- TheGame316

Has he ever scored 15 goals though? Don't believe so. His scoring pace this year was inflated by a 16.2 shooting percentage, when in reality, he's closer to 10-11% (which is still pretty good). Tanev is a decent player but he's definitely not "WORTH. EVERY. PENNY."

Especially considering there's evidence that ZAR is the grease to that line's wheel. Dude's overrated because he runs around and hits people. Good player but not as good as all these long pants hockey guys nut over.

Getting rid of Pronger's LTIR after his career ender, and including Grossmann
Getting rid of the ghost of Vinny Lecavalier's past along with Luke Schenn.
Moving out Hartnell (1 season too soon).
Dumping Dale Weise

Off the top of my head.
- jmatchett383

Getting rid of Pronger was very easy. We all know how Arizona operates. Many teams have used them to take a dump. It wasn't some stroke of genius. Also took back a bad contract in Gagner.

Vinny made that trade happen as he had a NTC. He could have sat and collected his check if he choose to. Again no stroke of genius. Even offered to retire

Hartnell is debatable.


Weiss is the same guy he overpaid and gave 4 years to. Let that sink in, also he took back a cap dump in Schemko.

Has he ever scored 15 goals though? Don't believe so. His scoring pace this year was inflated by a 16.2 shooting percentage, when in reality, he's closer to 10-11% (which is still pretty good). Tanev is a decent player but he's definitely not "WORTH. EVERY. PENNY."

Especially considering there's evidence that ZAR is the grease to that line's wheel. Dude's overrated because he runs around and hits people. Good player but not as good as all these hockey players nut over.
- j.boyd919

He scored 14 goals two years ago, so close lol

I also don't know that ZAR is the grease to that line's wheel. I honestly think they're just a unit and they do not function the same when any of them are out. That line looked significantly more effective when Tanev got back, but also when ZAR was out it was clearly also not looking as effective.

Regardless, I don't think that line will be together anymore. We don't know yet how the Pens are going to handle the expansion draft, but I'd say ZAR is one of the top candidates to get picked up by Seattle.

EDIT: That said, I think Tanev-Blueger-Gaudreau could be a solid 4th line if ZAR gets picked up.

Oh for sure, I think Tojo and I had a conversation at the beginning of the season about how much goalie's impact the PK. I feel like I thought they were going to be middle of the road, not bottom of the league, just because it's so hard to replicate success when you're a man down, regardless of system.
- j.boyd919

I also seem to remember a major uptick in PK efficiency when Dumo returned from injury. I think a factor in the Pens goalies having very bad PK HDSV% is because the D are not clearing out the bodies or rebounds on the doorstep well enough....also because they were not that good overall hahah

He scored 14 goals two years ago, so close lol

I also don't know that ZAR is the grease to that line's wheel. I honestly think they're just a unit and they do not function the same when any of them are out. That line looked significantly more effective when Tanev got back, but also when ZAR was out it was clearly also not looking as effective.


Regardless, I don't think that line will be together anymore. We don't know yet how the Pens are going to handle the expansion draft, but I'd say ZAR is one of the top candidates to get picked up by Seattle.

EDIT: That said, I think Tanev-Blueger-Gaudreau could be a solid 4th line if ZAR gets picked up.
- Rinosaur

I would prefer Tanev to play with Carter and McCann/Zucker on the third line. I’d be curious to see how a McCann-Carter-Tanev line plays out.

Also ZAR was in the 100th percentile in defensive play last season. He’s definitely the defensive grease to the wheel in a shutdown line.

I would prefer Tanev to play with Carter and McCann/Zucker on the third line. I’d be curious to see how a McCann-Carter-Tanev line plays out.
- j.boyd919

I brought that up earlier in the thread as well. I think it has potential and should at least be explored. Carter and Tanev's speed would be a force IMO. Even if he didn't score 15 on that line, I think he'd open ice for Carter and McCann.

Also ZAR was in the 100th percentile in defensive play last season. He’s definitely the defensive grease to the wheel in a shutdown line.
- j.boyd919

I'm wasn't speaking directly to his defensive play. I was speaking to the general chemistry of that line. That line is OK when one is gone, but they're night and day better when all three are there. There's just a chemistry with those guys that's noticeably different when even one, no matter which one, is missing.

Although I will say they looked good for that one game where Freddy centered them.

His contract is junk. I'm a fan of Tanev, but you just don't pay a player $3.5M to play on the fourth line; that's poor asset management. When you consider the fact that Blueger and ZAR (if he's not selected in the expansion draft) could both make $2M or more, you have one (frank)ing expensive 4th line.
- Rinosaur

Trade them all and then female dog about a poopty fourth line next year. 👍.

Im sick and tired of hearing about how the Pens need to get bigger and stronger.
Goaltending lost the series, plain and simple. It could be the Pens facing Tampa if Jarry actually had a clue and didnt give us his best Marc Andre Fleury circa 2012 impersonation.
- Amanion

When you identity is to score and speed opponents into submission and you can barely muster 3 goals a game you need to rethink your identity. Besides the Islanders in the second round would have been worse. Maybe another sweep. I think Pens could have beat Boston or Washington though.

Trade them all and then female dog about a poopty fourth line next year. 👍.
- Grinder47

Or you try playing him as you're paying him. A third liner.

That is the truth of the matter for them though and why I think they would be really interested in Marino as a replacement for Jones. I wonder if the not wanting to play for Columbus will ease up now that Torts is gone?

Domi would be an interesting guy to target. Even with his injury, if you could flip Pettersson to Columbus for him I would do that for sure. Everyone knows how I feel about Laine too...

Columbus will need to model themselves like the Islanders moving forward where they just pick up a bunch of good, hard working players and instill a good team culture and then just hope that they can keep some of their good draft picks. No more trading for guys at the end of their contracts praying they will resign extensions.
- MacPatty

Well Jones said he was going ufa after torts left. I think lots of it is jarmo’s low balling and negotiating too. Will be interesting to see what laine and werenski do.

Personally for our cap space I’d try for roslovic but he might be the only player who stays as he’s from Columbus. Maybe Jones depending on his salary but I’m not the biggest fan of laine for what he will prob get paid.

Well Jones said he was going ufa after torts left. I think lots of it is jarmo’s low balling and negotiating too. Will be interesting to see what laine and werenski do.

Personally for our cap space I’d try for roslovic but he might be the only player who stays as he’s from Columbus. Maybe Jones depending on his salary but I’m not the biggest fan of laine for what he will prob get paid.
- 10inchTerror

I think he probably made his mind up on that long before he announced he wasn't going to resign. There might be something to the Jarmo thing too but I don't think they were even at the point of starting negotiations yet.

While I think Roslovic is really good, he is a hometown Columbus kid who is pretty talented, so I am sure they will want to keep him around as long as possible. He might be the only guy there that doesn't get traded.

Or you try playing him as you're paying him. A third liner.
- Rinosaur

If ZAR/Blueger/Tanev combine for 7.5 Million but score at a 45 goal/season pace and go against the other teams SC1, why do we care if we classify them as 3rd or 4th line?

Sure, we can go and get a 4th line that makes a total of 4 million that is "shutdown" but if they can't move the needle and provide any scoring is it really worth it?

We can't dismiss how impressive 15 goals/season (each player) with primarily PK and shutdown duty is why we slobber over guys like Rust and wonder how we'd replace his 30 goal pace while he gets PP time, offensive zone starts, and plays 3rd wheel with Jake and Sid

If ZAR/Blueger/Tanev combine for 7.5 Million but score at a 45 goal/season pace and go against the other teams SC1, why do we care if we classify them as 3rd or 4th line?

Sure, we can go and get a 4th line that makes a total of 4 million that is "shutdown" but if they can't move the needle and provide any scoring is it really worth it?

We can't dismiss how impressive 15 goals/season (each player) with primarily PK and shutdown duty is why we slobber over guys like Rust and wonder how we'd replace his 30 goal pace while he gets PP time, offensive zone starts, and plays 3rd wheel with Jake and Sid
- TheGame316

Those 3 combined for 23 goals this past season...a 33 pace over 82 games....Rust had 22 goals this past season....

If ZAR/Blueger/Tanev combine for 7.5 Million but score at a 45 goal/season pace and go against the other teams SC1, why do we care if we classify them as 3rd or 4th line?

Sure, we can go and get a 4th line that makes a total of 4 million that is "shutdown" but if they can't move the needle and provide any scoring is it really worth it?

We can't dismiss how impressive 15 goals/season (each player) with primarily PK and shutdown duty is why we slobber over guys like Rust and wonder how we'd replace his 30 goal pace while he gets PP time, offensive zone starts, and plays 3rd wheel with Jake and Sid
- TheGame316

Because if you're paying players a combined $7.5M to play around ten minutes a game excluding the PK, then you're not spending wisely. You need to find a better way to balance that money throughout the lineup in areas that are more in need.

Threw together this armchair...

Not sure if the Zucker trade is realistic, but I know STL has some major holes at wing as of right now.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/team/2474898

Threw together this armchair...

Not sure if the Zucker trade is realistic, but I know STL has some major holes at wing as of right now.

https://www.capfriendly.c.../armchair-gm/team/2474898
- Rinosaur

St. Louis declines? hahah

Guzev for a mill seems a bit of a stretch and the idea of rookie PO Joe with Ceci makes me a bit uneasy, plus I dont really want Ceci back, especially with a raise...ZAR gone for Clifford I dont like...pretty meh on Foligno in top 6 too..

MattStrat declines.

St. Louis declines? hahah

Guzev for a mill seems a bit of a stretch and the idea of rookie PO Joe with Ceci makes me a bit uneasy, plus I dont really want Ceci back, especially with a raise...ZAR gone for Clifford I dont like...pretty meh on Foligno in top 6 too..

MattStrat declines.
- MattStrat

LOL Yeah, I kind of threw caution to the wind with the STL trade. They need a couple of LWs and not sure if they will bring Schwartz and/or Hoffman back. If STL views Zucker as a good fit I could see that trade working.

Foligno IMO is the best happy medium of getting that long pants player who can play. Is he going to score 20G? Nope, but he can still play and wouldn't drag that line down.

Gusev will come cheap IMO.

Finding a replacement for ZAR will not be easy. It will likely be a downgrade, but Clifford is a decent player who also brings that physical game Hextall is looking for.