It's not hockey IQ.
- MJL

Then why did the coach call him out on it several times?

Yes they are in that position. Teams bidding against each other will drive up the price. They don't have to trade him this off season.
- MJL

Right, they can trade him at the deadline, but Columbus gets the most if they trade him in the offseason, since at the deadline Jones is a pure rental.

that's right, it was nice that AV was honest, though I think it was public comments like this that may might have caused him to lose the room last year. But its a big deal when a coach calls into question a players IQ and unwillingness to pay the price. These are not things that you can teach a player, they either have it or they don't IMO.
- jd250

He did it publicly. Wonder how many private conversations he had with him about it?

That's easy, Hamilton is one of Carolina's top pairing defenseman. The minutes of any team's top 4 go up in the playoffs since those are your 4 best defenseman. But don't forget, Carolina is sitting home right now, they did not get out of their division. During his exit interview, Brindy was clear that what he learned was his team was not good enough.
- jd250

The Canes have a very deep defense. Other defenseman could've played more, yet Hamilton played over 25 minutes a game. The answer is easy. The answer is that coaches don't play defenseman 25 minutes a game in the biggest games of the year if they are soft. Colorado, Washington and other good teams are sitting home now also.

that's right, it was nice that AV was honest, though I think it was public comments like this that may might have caused him to lose the room last year. But its a big deal when a coach calls into question a players IQ and unwillingness to pay the price. These are not things that you can teach a player, they either have it or they don't IMO.
- jd250

So its not just confidence?

Right, they can trade him at the deadline, but Columbus gets the most if they trade him in the offseason, since at the deadline Jones is a pure rental.
- jd250

True, but your claim that Columbus doesn't have leverage is not accurate.

I isolated on Myers all through the season to look at his play. Playing defense in the NHL is difficult especially for young players. The Flyers lacked structure and consistency in their play. Flyers defenseman were faced with all season having to make a split second decision on which high danger player to cover in an attempt to cover breakdowns. Some certainly caused with their own error. This was an extremely difficult situation to play in. With Myers, it just snowballed. He got deeply frustrated, confused and lacked confidence. To the point where he looked like he didn't belong at times. You can't ignore everything that went on with last season but I see most of it as an outlier. Like you said, the coaching staff did a horrendous job in correcting issues when they first started. With the lack of practice time, it just got worse and worse.
- MJL

Do you think the Flyers should move away from man to man coverage in their own zone and move to a hybrid approach that makes it easier for their Dmen to cover the slot area? I just don't see the current playoff teams' Dmen chasing players around their own zone like I saw the Flyers Dmen doing last season.

that's right, it was nice that AV was honest, though I think it was public comments like this that may might have caused him to lose the room last year. But its a big deal when a coach calls into question a players IQ and unwillingness to pay the price. These are not things that you can teach a player, they either have it or they don't IMO.
- jd250

So if a player either has it or they don't, then that rules out that Myers all of a sudden lost his hockey IQ. So how can you explain that in his development in his play in the AHL and his time with the Flyers before last season, his hockey IQ wasn't called into question and that he was considered a very promising young player?

So its not just confidence?
- bradster

With Myers? No IMO its more than confidence. I mean Morin didn't have oodles of confidence last season which is completely understandable, but that didn't stop him from using his size and being physical. When your coach calls you out for being unwilling to take a hit to a make a play, that is really serious. With Sanheim, I do believe its confidence issues, because you can tell how he plays game to game where his confidence level is at, specifically by this skating and his willingness to rush the puck and make a play.

Do you think the Flyers should move away from man to man coverage in their own zone and move to a hybrid approach that makes it easier for their Dmen to cover the slot area? I just don't see the current playoff teams' Dmen chasing players around their own zone like I saw the Flyers Dmen doing last season.
- jd250

The Flyers already play a hybrid but they play a lot of man to man. Flyers don't do anything really different than most teams. Some teams like to pack it in and block shots. It doesn't matter what system of play the Flyers play if they don't play it well.

So if a player either has it or they don't, then that rules out that Myers all of a sudden lost his hockey IQ. So how can you explain that in his development in his play in the AHL and his time with the Flyers before last season, his hockey IQ wasn't called into question and that he was considered a very promising young player?
- MJL

I think you can get away with mistakes a lot more in the AHL or lower, but in the NHL playing against the best players in the world, your mistakes get magnified quickly.

With Myers? No IMO its more than confidence. I mean Morin didn't have oodles of confidence last season which is completely understandable, but that didn't stop him from using his size and being physical. When your coach calls you out for being unwilling to take a hit to a make a play, that is really serious. With Sanheim, I do believe its confidence issues, because you can tell how he plays game to game where his confidence level is at, specifically by this skating and his willingness to rush the puck and make a play.
- jd250

Before last season, did Myers have a knock on his play for not using his size and not playing physical? Is not using his size and not playing physical what got him to the NHL?

I think you can get away with mistakes a lot more in the AHL or lower, but in the NHL playing against the best players in the world, your mistakes get magnified quickly.
- jd250

That doesn't answer the question.

Here is the point. Before last season, Myers hockey IQ and his level of compete was not in question. So what happened? What changed that? It's pretty obvious.

That doesn't answer the question.

Here is the point. Before last season, Myers hockey IQ and his level of compete was not in question. So what happened? What changed that? It's pretty obvious.
- MJL

You know this for a fact?

That doesn't answer the question.
- MJL

I mean, you and I saw the same thing last year with Myers, his rotations were off, he didn't seem to grasp when he should cover a player and when he should stay in his area. I mean how many times did we see him up at his own blue line when the puck was in his zone. You just can't have Dmen making coverage mistakes like this. That and his unwillingness to take a hit to make a play (AV's words) are really concerning. The Flyers as a team last year had to be the worst team I have ever seen with clearing the puck out of their own zone, it was just stupid turnover after stupid turnover in the worst areas of the ice.

That doesn't answer the question.

Here is the point. Before last season, Myers hockey IQ and his level of compete was not in question. So what happened? What changed that? It's pretty obvious.
- MJL

Could be he got lucky, its a small sample size of him playing well in the NHL, almost the same sample size as him playing awful. If his good play year he was graded a B-, last year was a definate F. What's his average? My point is I have no idea what he is at this point, and what to expect of him this year. If its just confidence, we should be good with Meyers in our top 4 going forward.

That doesn't answer the question.

Here is the point. Before last season, Myers hockey IQ and his level of compete was not in question. So what happened? What changed that? It's pretty obvious.
- MJL

When you say its obvious, you mean the coaching or the system, or both?

Jake Bean is an RFA. I wonder if Hamilton decides to stay, that we could poach the kid. They have less money and little room for their defensive prospects

You could perhaps get him at an affordable price. Especially if Carolina may be forced to expose someone they don’t want to.

Then you could go after Jones, and have a relatively cheap second guy brought aboard in Bean, who is young and talented.

Provy - Jones
York - Sanheim
Bean - Myers

Ghost/Hagg (assuming they don’t get poached)

Even if we don’t get Jones or Hamilton, I think Bean could be a decent secondary option.

York on the second pairing might be premature, but hopefully he’ll earn that role after a few months (although a year is more likely).

true, but my point is Columbus is not in a position to ask for the sun and moon for Jones, and the teams interested would only be teams Jones is willing to sign a long term deal with, which limits the playing field.
- jd250

No, they wont have to ask. But they wont have to because the competing teams will do it for them. I have no idea which teams that will be, but I would think its not as limited as we think. But even if it is say 5 teams, I think that is enough for Columbus to get a pretty good deal.

No, they wont have to ask. But they wont have to because the competing teams will do it for them. I have no idea which teams that will be, but I would think its not as limited as we think. But even if it is say 5 teams, I think that is enough for Columbus to get a pretty good deal.
- MBFlyerfan

There may also be a cup contending team who isn't worried about extending him. They may see him as the missing piece on D for a cup run. They may be willing to give up more in prospects and picks for said run.

I mean, you and I saw the same thing last year with Myers, his rotations were off, he didn't seem to grasp when he should cover a player and when he should stay in his area. I mean how many times did we see him up at his own blue line when the puck was in his zone. You just can't have Dmen making coverage mistakes like this. That and his unwillingness to take a hit to make a play (AV's words) are really concerning. The Flyers as a team last year had to be the worst team I have ever seen with clearing the puck out of their own zone, it was just stupid turnover after stupid turnover in the worst areas of the ice.
- jd250

I think what Myers didn't grasp was what open player out of numerous should he cover? After multiple breakdowns by multiple players. Shift after shift all season long. Yes, he made his fair share of mistakes. He had periods, which I called out during the season, where he was non competitive. Have to look at why was there a major change in a young players play? To ignore the situation and just say he stinks, is not credible analysis. We can't ignore he play in the past and his rise to the NHL.

When you say its obvious, you mean the coaching or the system, or both?
- jd250

Nothing to do with the system. Coaching and players.

I think what Myers didn't grasp was what open player out of numerous should he cover? After multiple breakdowns by multiple players. Shift after shift all season long. Yes, he made his fair share of mistakes. He had periods, which I called out during the season, where he was non competitive. Have to look at why was there a major change in a young players play? To ignore the situation and just say he stinks, is not credible analysis. We can't ignore he play in the past and his rise to the NHL.
- MJL

His rise to the NHL was made easier and faster being in the flyers system.

Could be he got lucky, its a small sample size of him playing well in the NHL, almost the same sample size as him playing awful. If his good play year he was graded a B-, last year was a definate F. What's his average? My point is I have no idea what he is at this point, and what to expect of him this year. If its just confidence, we should be good with Meyers in our top 4 going forward.
- bradster

We have a 180 game sample of pro hockey to draw an opinion from on Myers before last season. What needs to happen is that a young player needs to be developed properly. Some need more time than others. Some can jump right in to a top 4 spot, some can't.

His rise to the NHL was made easier and faster being in the flyers system.
- hello it's me 2050

Well, he did continue to develop in the Q after being drafted. Led the league by defensemen in goals. And he was invited by Canada to play for them in the World Juniors. Those aren’t at the expense of our system.

He’s got talent. It’s there. He just regressed. I think it was a bit too much too fast. He really should have been getting his toes wet on lower pairings and with less minutes.

That’s what makes me a little nervous about putting York in the top 4 so fast