I was kinda agreeing with you but not completely. I think you can get away with missing a stud D if your team is good oI agrn that side of the puck. It doesn't matter how your team plays if your Goalie is below average. There's no masking it.
- Load Management

I agree there's no masking a disaster in net. It is in actuality one of the most important pieces in team sports. The truth is though, you just need a guy to get hot in the playoffs. Having an elite goalie doesn't guarantee this, it just makes it more likely.

Trust me, I know as well as anyone else what elite goaltending brings....I lived it.I just think it's more likely a goalie raises his play for a few series than a Dman becomes elite for a similar time frame.

Yeah, I think it’s a personal preference.

I’ve read a few articles on the subject from stat nerds and most agree an elite #1 centre is the best way to secure a championship. I’m making up the numbers here to make a point but it was something like 99% of teams that won a cup have an elite #1 centre while something like 88% of team won cups without elite goaltending.

That’s why I made sure to include “IMO” on my original statement as I’m sure to be wrong.
- bloatedhefty

There have been some less in inspiring goaltenders win Stanley Cups but when is the last time a less than inspiring 1C won a cup?

Ryan O'Reilly? Still pretty damn good player. Andy McDonald? Ducks 06'

Domino effect. Math still works. The unexpected never fails to shock haters.
- NuckUp

I’m sorry, your magic math might work, but real math still says no.

I agree there's no masking a disaster in net. It is in actuality one of the most important pieces in team sports. The truth is though, you just need a guy to get hot in the playoffs. Having an elite goalie doesn't guarantee this, it just makes it more likely.

Trust me, I know as well as anyone else what elite goaltending brings....I lived it.I just think it's more likely a goalie raises his play for a few series than a Dman becomes elite for a similar time frame.
- golfingsince

A goalie is always on the ice & can dictate results more so when a D is on at most 50% of the time eg Pronger. What skaters can do is dictate the play much like the Habs are doing as a collective & rely on Price when VGK has a break through. Timing is everything & a goalie can get into a teams head like no other player. Any player can get shut down given the right system & personnel but that doesn’t apply to goalies. A system can minimize ops ability & enhance a goalies success rate.

I agree there's no masking a disaster in net. It is in actuality one of the most important pieces in team sports. The truth is though, you just need a guy to get hot in the playoffs. Having an elite goalie doesn't guarantee this, it just makes it more likely.

Trust me, I know as well as anyone else what elite goaltending brings....I lived it.I just think it's more likely a goalie raises his play for a few series than a Dman becomes elite for a similar time frame.
- golfingsince

A good example is the Cloutier Canucks, we had 3 very good d in their prime in Jovo and Ohlund , but weak goaltending in crucial times cost that opportunities.

There have been some less in inspiring goaltenders win Stanley Cups but when is the last time a less than inspiring 1C won a cup?

Ryan O'Reilly? Still pretty damn good player. Andy McDonald? Ducks 06'
- manvanfan

Or a shutdown C like Carbonneau or Lemaire or Goring or Danault etc can impact a series. Even Kesler in beast mode.

Teams with a dynamic 1-2 punch at C have a great chance at success once other pieces added after.

Gretzky Messier
Lemieux Francis
Sakic Forsberg
Yzerman Federov
Crosby Malkin

The truth is that you can build a winning team with all kinds of players , but you'll not likely win if your really weak in any one position in hockey.

A goalie is always on the ice & can dictate results more so when a D is on at most 50% of the time eg Pronger. What skaters can do is dictate the play much like the Habs are doing as a collective & rely on Price when VGK has a break through. Timing is everything & a goalie can get into a teams head line no other player. Any player can get shut down given the right system & personnel but that doesn’t apply to goalies. A system can minimize ops ability & enhance a goalies success rate.
- Nighthawk

I mean I was actually the best goalie around, no doubts. I was scouted and recruited before I was even 14 years old. We won games where we were outshot 50-15 but that was rare. Given an elite Dman, my teams were unstoppable.

My alternate goalie was Steve Shields. He had a solid career. I know what an elite goalie can do, but having a stud Dman mitigates much of that.

I mean I was actually the best goalie around, no doubts. I was scouted and recruited before I was even 14 years old. We won games where we were outshot 50-15 but that was rare. Given an elite Dman, my teams were unstoppable.

My alternate goalie was Steve Shields. He had a solid career. I know what an elite goalie can do, but having a stud Dman mitigates much of that.
- golfingsince

Nice stuff & appreciate your insight on how much a stud D can impact to a great degree.

Firstly, I’m no “hater”. Secondly, I understand plenty of “big picture stuff”. Thirdly, there is literally no benefit to Phoenix other than the first round pick. All they are doing is a huge favor to a rival team. The money doesn’t “work”. It’s all dead money fir guys who either won’t play, or are terrible.

May not happen?
- 1970vintage

Yes you are its undeniable by the level of negativity and snark.

Plus you keep getting things wrong. It's AZ and they're not a rival going to another division. Plus all 5 would make that AZ roster as its in worse shape.

I called it a bargain for a reason just like Canucks gave a 3rd for Schmidt. Its no favor, as long term AZ saves a bundle of cash and cap plus they have 3 decent prospects to work with.

It's speculative but hey stranger things have happened.

Nice stuff & appreciate your insight on how much a stud D can impact to a great degree.
- Nighthawk

Cheers! I didn't mean to make it about me.

I haven't played in years and have no desire to. I just had really quick reflexes.

I’m sorry, your magic math might work, but real math still says no.
- 1970vintage

The truth is that you can build a winning team with all kinds of players , but you'll not likely win if your really weak in any one position in hockey.
- onesmallleap

Well said

Or a shutdown C like Carbonneau or Lemaire or Goring or Danault etc can impact a series. Even Kesler in beast mode.
- Nighthawk

Need a lot to win a cup. No perfect recipe for winning.

Yes you are its undeniable by the level of negativity and snark.

Plus you keep getting things wrong. It's AZ and they're not a rival going to another division. Plus all 5 would make that AZ roster as its in worse shape.

I called it a bargain for a reason just like Canucks gave a 3rd for Schmidt. Its no favor, as long term AZ saves a bundle of cash and cap plus they have 3 decent prospects to work with.

It's speculative but hey stranger things have happened.
- NuckUp

Ok here goes...

Dvorak/Kessel/2nd for LE/1st/Roussel

Get a very good youngish 3C.
Kessel only 1 year left & better add than LE.
Extra cap from Roussel helps get a UFA RHD.

It’s only a quick rough trade idea

Miller Petey Boeser
Pearson Bo Pod
Hog Dvorak Kessel

Cheers! I didn't mean to make it about me.

I haven't played in years and have no desire to. I just had really quick reflexes.
- golfingsince

All good toot your horn it’s legit ok

I’m short & only thing that held me back but lb for lb I was a winner in hockey & ball. I was a student of sports & never took a shift or a play off. I always found desire & determination & honing skills continuously beat talent that didn’t work as hard.

Ok here goes...

Dvorak/Kessel/2nd for LE/1st/Roussel

Get a very good youngish 3C.
Kessel only 1 year left & better add than LE.
Extra cap from Roussel helps get a UFA RHD.

It’s only a quick rough trade idea

Miller Petey Boeser
Pearson Bo Pod
Hog Dvorak Kessel
- Nighthawk

I’d be down for that

Need a lot to win a cup. No perfect recipe for winning.
- manvanfan

One ingredient is need warriors that are usually unsung heroes in a team game.

Ok here goes...

Dvorak/Kessel/2nd for LE/1st/Roussel

Get a very good youngish 3C.
Kessel only 1 year left & better add than LE.
Extra cap from Roussel helps get a UFA RHD.

It’s only a quick rough trade idea

Miller Petey Boeser
Pearson Bo Pod
Hog Dvorak Kessel
- Nighthawk

Adding 2.4M in cap space adds to getting a UFA RHD?

I’d be down for that
- Nucker101

You likey eh lol

Just not another pretty face in here am I? 😂

I’ve many ideas only need a nudge but I can & would trade anything in the right situation.

Adding 2.4M in cap space adds to getting a UFA RHD?
- manvanfan

More cap can creatively be found.

All good toot your horn it’s legit ok

I’m short & only thing that held me back but lb for lb I was a winner in hockey & ball. I was a student of sports & never took a shift or a play off. I always found desire & determination & honing skills continuously beat talent that didn’t work as hard.
- Nighthawk

Thanks man but at the end of the day i'm just like one of you guys. Wether I was good at hockey or not 30 years ago in inconsequential. I'm not sure why I busted that out except I guess I needed to say I understood what elite goaltending meant.

It is what it is, i'm pretty sure we all understand how goaltending can change a team's fortunes during the playoffs.

I want a Dman that can control the play at both ends of the ice, the closest we've come to that IMO is Ohlund.

Once we have that, we'll be in a better position to win it all than we've ever been.

I mean I was actually the best goalie around, no doubts. I was scouted and recruited before I was even 14 years old. We won games where we were outshot 50-15 but that was rare. Given an elite Dman, my teams were unstoppable.

My alternate goalie was Steve Shields. He had a solid career. I know what an elite goalie can do, but having a stud Dman mitigates much of that.
- golfingsince

I think we have a different opinion as far as what elite Goaltending means. No offense to Steve Shields nor to diminish your accomplishments. Sounds like you had fun.

I set the bar higher. Next year there will be 32 jobs in the NHL for Goalies. Of those maybe 5 rise to the top. When they do it consistently that's elite to me.

I think we have a different opinion as far as what elite Goaltending means. No offense to Steve Shields nor to diminish your accomplishments. Sounds like you had fun.

I set the bar higher. Next year there will be 32 jobs in the NHL for Goalies. Of those maybe 5 rise to the top. When they do it consistently that's elite to me.
- Load Management

I guess what I was saying is that I was elite for my level. I quit hockey well before Steve Shields was an NHL regular. I was considered the best goalie prospect of my generation before I gave it up.

It really doesn't matter, I stopped playing. There was this Brodeur kid we played with.