Depends… where was it? Who decided to have them? Is it legal there? If it comes out his place where he had them and in state fireworks illegal then while tragic then the having fun wrong place wrong time narrative ceases for me.

Just had this fight with my 17 year old yesterday. While I understand odds low of incident in NYS illegal for fireworks at private house. I’m not trained to use them. Why take the risk? 100% chance not hurt by not taking that risk
- Stayin alive

Private party in Novi, Michigan. I believe it is illegal to light fireworks on public property pretty much anywhere in the United States. It sounds like this was on private property which would be legal by definition.
I guess we need to see more details on the incident, but either way a young man lost his life and that is tragic.

Depends… where was it? Who decided to have them? Is it legal there? If it comes out his place where he had them and in state fireworks illegal then while tragic then the having fun wrong place wrong time narrative ceases for me.

Just had this fight with my 17 year old yesterday. While I understand odds low of incident in NYS illegal for fireworks at private house. I’m not trained to use them. Why take the risk? 100% chance not hurt by not taking that risk
- Stayin alive

The cause of death is listed as firework injury and trauma to chest. Not the head wound.

https://twitter.com/Aport...amp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Given that he was in a hot tub, and with friends etc, my guess is there was alcohol. Who used the firework? I suspect he wasn't the one doing it in the tub.

There might be grounds for a civil lawsuit here.

What a waste.

https://twitter.com/Fly0r...5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=


Too funny really.

I would hope that management and above would read that. It’s time to do this the right way and tear it down. This middle of the road nonsense is not going to end this drought.
- ClaudeFather

Tearing it down is not as easy as you may want to think, the Cap makes it more difficult, the flat cap makes it near impossible, take last season for example, Fletcher was very candid about the fact that not even the traditional hockey trades where being done, you know the ones that you trade one Vet with contract for another.. or your trading a large contract for a smaller one.

Also remember the Flyers have a total of 13 million under the cap right now, that is very little, and unless one of Vora or JVR are taken we will still only have 13mil to resign Hart and Sanheim.. since both had down years they will get a discount on both but that will still be around 3-3.5 for each, then they have to sign a backup/1A goalie that will take another figure 3-4 mil there that's probably going to be around 9-10 mil of that 13 right there.. that leaves approximately 3-4 mil left to fill the holes we have.

The only way something major tear down is done is if the Krakens take either JVR or Vora.. and i doubt they take either.

You likely wont..back then the Flyers could outspend most everyone which they no longer can do. Sad part is with all those decades we were able to outspend other we couldnt win a CUP....
- hfc355

The Flyers didn’t win their Cups by outspending anyone. They won them with a team built by shrewd drafting and smart trading. Money had nothing to do with it.

Private party in Novi, Michigan. I believe it is illegal to light fireworks on public property pretty much anywhere in the United States. It sounds like this was on private property which would be legal by definition.
I guess we need to see more details on the incident, but either way a young man lost his life and that is tragic.
- PLindbergh31

True. Very tragic. I’m not trying to be a tool. NYS can’t do on private property. Every year with accidents.

Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits:
- bmeltzer

Bill, I do not think Dallas was in the SCF in 2010

Bill, I do not think Dallas was in the SCF in 2010
- corduroy

Typo fixed... 2020

Tearing it down is not as easy as you may want to think, the Cap makes it more difficult, the flat cap makes it near impossible, take last season for example, Fletcher was very candid about the fact that not even the traditional hockey trades where being done, you know the ones that you trade one Vet with contract for another.. or your trading a large contract for a smaller one.

Also remember the Flyers have a total of 13 million under the cap right now, that is very little, and unless one of Vora or JVR are taken we will still only have 13mil to resign Hart and Sanheim.. since both had down years they will get a discount on both but that will still be around 3-3.5 for each, then they have to sign a backup/1A goalie that will take another figure 3-4 mil there that's probably going to be around 9-10 mil of that 13 right there.. that leaves approximately 3-4 mil left to fill the holes we have.

The only way something major tear down is done is if the Krakens take either JVR or Vora.. and i doubt they take either.
- Elvathadrin

A major tear down would come from trading our biggest asset in Sean Couturier.

Tearing it down is not as easy as you may want to think, the Cap makes it more difficult, the flat cap makes it near impossible, take last season for example, Fletcher was very candid about the fact that not even the traditional hockey trades where being done, you know the ones that you trade one Vet with contract for another.. or your trading a large contract for a smaller one.

Also remember the Flyers have a total of 13 million under the cap right now, that is very little, and unless one of Vora or JVR are taken we will still only have 13mil to resign Hart and Sanheim.. since both had down years they will get a discount on both but that will still be around 3-3.5 for each, then they have to sign a backup/1A goalie that will take another figure 3-4 mil there that's probably going to be around 9-10 mil of that 13 right there.. that leaves approximately 3-4 mil left to fill the holes we have.

The only way something major tear down is done is if the Krakens take either JVR or Vora.. and i doubt they take either.
- Elvathadrin

Tear down is an active process, not a passive one in hoping this team picks that. It has honestly little to do with making "hockey trades" and salary cap issues. In our case, It's very simple:

1. Trade Couturier THIS off season, when he has 1 year left on a very reasonable contract. Trade him to Colorado and poach Newhook/Timmins/even (unlikely) Bowen
2. Trade Giroux near TDL next year when prorated salary is low, retain salary, and get a 1st from a contender.
3. Make sure Seattle takes JVR, and sweeten the pot by offering 1-2 mid-level prospects (Zamula/Wisdom).
4. Trade Ghost with 1-1.5 m retained for picks/prospects/whatever you can get.
5. Ride out Voracek's contract.
6. Don't offer any contracts longer than 3 years to vets. Hold on to every one off your young players except the sweeteners above.
7. We will pick top 5-7 next 3 years in this plan.

2024: Voracek is off books. See what you have. Keep the wheat, trade the chaff. This is your cup winning core. Start signing complementary players.

I appreciate the general sentiment, Bill, but the problem with the particular exercise you have undertaken is that it lays you open to the allegation of cherry-picking.

Here are the same stats I posted last year which look at everything. The Flyers # of cups is a little worse than average for the # of years they have been in existence (I started the clock from when Flyers came into league), but the current drought is an outlier. They are near the bottom as far as # of consecutive years without a cup.


- PT21

Except that there's no cherry-picking whatsoever. Every franchise is included, every peak period mentioned as well as every team's longest drought.

Tear down is an active process, not a passive one in hoping this team picks that. It has honestly little to do with making "hockey trades" and salary cap issues. In our case, It's very simple:

1. Trade Couturier THIS off season, when he has 1 year left on a very reasonable contract. Trade him to Colorado and poach Newhook/Timmins/even (unlikely) Bowen
2. Trade Giroux near TDL next year when prorated salary is low, retain salary, and get a 1st from a contender.
3. Make sure Seattle takes JVR, and sweeten the pot by offering 1-2 mid-level prospects (Zamula/Wisdom).
4. Trade Ghost with 1-1.5 m retained for picks/prospects/whatever you can get.
5. Ride out Voracek's contract.
6. Don't offer any contracts longer than 3 years to vets. Hold on to every one off your young players except the sweeteners above.
7. We will pick top 5-7 next 3 years in this plan.

2024: Voracek is off books. See what you have. Keep the wheat, trade the chaff. This is your cup winning core. Start signing complementary players.
- PT21

You know they won’t do this and take the slap of those 3 to 4 extremely lean years coming out of the pandemic though.

Except that there's no cherry-picking whatsoever. Every franchise is included, every peak period mentioned as well as every team's longest drought.
- bmeltzer

Fair enough, Bill.

But in your write-up for each team, you seem to dwell more on the droughts, and less on the crests in the way you structure your respective blurbs.

I understand that your point is that there is a lot of inherent randomness in producing winners. I think we all accept that.

But unless you look at the #s, that "randomness" argument can often be used to justify any failure. You have to quantify degree of droughts and degree of success etc to get a better gauge of who does well and who not.

Tear down is an active process, not a passive one in hoping this team picks that. It has honestly little to do with making "hockey trades" and salary cap issues. In our case, It's very simple:

1. Trade Couturier THIS off season, when he has 1 year left on a very reasonable contract. Trade him to Colorado and poach Newhook/Timmins/even (unlikely) Bowen
2. Trade Giroux near TDL next year when prorated salary is low, retain salary, and get a 1st from a contender.
3. Make sure Seattle takes JVR, and sweeten the pot by offering 1-2 mid-level prospects (Zamula/Wisdom).
4. Trade Ghost with 1-1.5 m retained for picks/prospects/whatever you can get.
5. Ride out Voracek's contract.
6. Don't offer any contracts longer than 3 years to vets. Hold on to every one off your young players except the sweeteners above.
7. We will pick top 5-7 next 3 years in this plan.

2024: Voracek is off books. See what you have. Keep the wheat, trade the chaff. This is your cup winning core. Start signing complementary players.
- PT21

What your talking about isn't a tear down its a straight out tank, oh and guess what Giroux still have a full NMC/NTC why would he wave it?

Vora has 3 years left

Hayes also still has an NTC and is under contract and isn't a FA until 26-27...

Oh and if your intention is to tank which it looks like this is why are you trading away top prospects?

You know they won’t do this and take the slap of those 3 to 4 extremely lean years coming out of the pandemic though.
- stayinthefnnet

Yes, I know.

But the tragedy in our case is that the pandemic has very little to do with it.

What your talking about isn't a tear down its a straight out tank, oh and guess what Giroux still have a full NMC/NTC why would he wave it?

Vora has 3 years left

Hayes also still has an NTC and is under contract and isn't a FA until 26-27...

Oh and if your intention is to tank which it looks like this is why are you trading away top prospects?
- Elvathadrin

Zamula and wisdom are top prospects to you guys?

Yes, I know.

But the tragedy in our case is that the pandemic has very little to do with it.
- PT21

Much more of the comedy variety my friend.

Gonna be one collective keystone suck pile in the not too distant future.

What your talking about isn't a tear down its a straight out tank, oh and guess what Giroux still have a full NMC/NTC why would he wave it?

Vora has 3 years left

Hayes also still has an NTC and is under contract and isn't a FA until 26-27...

Oh and if your intention is to tank which it looks like this is why are you trading away top prospects?
- Elvathadrin

1. I did not realize there is distinction between tear-down and tank. I try not to use the last word because the mentally challenged crowd get upset and that leads to endless confusion. Call it Future Aspirations Require Trimming (Fart).

2. Roo will waive the NMC to play for a contender and because he is told he will not be resigned.

3. 2024-2021 = 3.

4. Said nothing about Hez.

5. Explicitly said wouldn't, unless you consider Zamula/Wisdom to be top prospects.

Tear down is an active process, not a passive one in hoping this team picks that. It has honestly little to do with making "hockey trades" and salary cap issues. In our case, It's very simple:

1. Trade Couturier THIS off season, when he has 1 year left on a very reasonable contract. Trade him to Colorado and poach Newhook/Timmins/even (unlikely) Bowen

- PT21

Bullet point 1 is a hockey trade and you even reference Couturier's contract. His relatively low cap hit would make him attractive to Colorado. So it obviously has a lot to do with cap issues. You also want to trade Couturier because you don't want to sign him to a long term high cap hit deal. Also a salary cap issue. I figured I could stop there and didn't read the rest. No reason to.

1. I did not realize there is distinction between tear-down and tank. I try not to use the last word because the mentally challenged crowd get upset and that leads to endless confusion. Call it Future Aspirations Require Trimming (Fart).


- PT21

The only confusion present is with those who don't understand what tanking actually is. Here you are again, labeling a group of people who don't agree with you.

Much more of the comedy variety my friend.

Gonna be one collective keystone suck pile in the not too distant future.
- stayinthefnnet

The Flyers business model is largely based on the avoidance of what you wrote above. It is motivated more by fear of failure rather than seeking of success.

Iotw, the chances of sh1t and of silver will stay in western PA, like it has for the past 30 years.

The Flyers business model is largely based on the avoidance of what you wrote above. It is motivated more by fear of failure rather than seeking of success.


- PT21

No it's not. The parameters used to measure success may be different than the ones you would use. That doesn't mean it's motivated by fear of failure.

Giving up a solid prospect like Wisdom or Zamula to get Seattle to take who you want them to take, would be colossally stupid.

1. I did not realize there is distinction between tear-down and tank. I try not to use the last word because the mentally challenged crowd get upset and that leads to endless confusion. Call it Future Aspirations Require Trimming (Fart).

2. Roo will waive the NMC to play for a contender and because he is told he will not be resigned.

3. 2024-2021 = 3.

4. Said nothing about Hez.

5. Explicitly said wouldn't, unless you consider Zamula/Wisdom to be top prospects.
- PT21

There's a huge difference between rebuilding and tanking.

There's a huge difference between rebuilding and tanking.
- Pelle31Forever

Weren't we talking about "tear down" versus "tanking"?

Less pedantically (and going ahead with the tank word), every franchise makes moves prioritizing the present over the future or vice versa during the course of a season. The question is really one of degree.

When a team takes a step that significantly lowers the likelihood of current success for the benefit of future success, I would call that a tank move.

If teams are making enough tank moves, they are in tank mode. If teams are making some tank moves and some not tank moves, I would call that a "soft tank/stay competitive" mode. If teams are in win now mode and are risking the future, I would call that the reverse-tank mode.