Partially valid.

The Oilers are attempting to scoop Hyman because the Leafs are unable or unwilling to match their offer. The Leaf vulnerability is their limited free cap.

On the other hand, the Leafs are trying to inflict a wound on the Oilers by forcing a better return knowing that the Oilers vulnerability is the accrued commitment on future years.
- spatso

False.

Leafs already offer hyman a overpayment of a contract he turned it down. That wasn't limited by their cap situation. They don't want to pay him 5.5 for 8 years because that is a terrible deal. He's not worth close to that.the leafs have already moved on from hyman.

They're not trying to inflict a wound on oilers, they're trying to get value for the asset. Negotiating right alone go for 4ths and 5ths, so obviously a sighed player (with the benefit of the extra year only leafs can offer right now) is worth more than a 6th.

We'll see, he fixed a lot of inherited damage.
- burn

I agree with this except the parts about fixed and inherited.

Partially valid.

The Oilers are attempting to scoop Hyman because the Leafs are unable or unwilling to match their offer. The Leaf vulnerability is their limited free cap.

On the other hand, the Leafs are trying to inflict a wound on the Oilers by forcing a better return knowing that the Oilers vulnerability is the accrued commitment on future years.
- spatso

Yes Speedo, cap math means that age 29 + 8 years = 37 and that is clearly a Leaf vulnerability. The Leafs choose to not sign someone who wants a long term deal. Holland is prepared to sign a long term deal to get the cap down because he only cares about the short term. Your blinders are astounding except for their being predictable.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.
It’s frightening to think about how much more damage can be done before he and the rest of the shanasham crew are turfed next spring.
- daws44

I think this is some embellishment here.

Sure there's been mistakes and with other teams like Washington, the GM who brought the core in didnt win the cup.

However, I think its a little hard to say there's been a ton of damage done here.

They have two top centers, they have a solid 1 to 3 d core.
They have prospects.
They have top wingers.
The only "bad" contract is marner and even then its only by a couple million.

I'm confident if the leafs didn't trade picks to "go for it" you people would all be pissed enough wasn't done at the deadline.

Foligno was the type of player they needed. I think quarantine and the injuries hurt the guy from finding a groove.

I'd go as far to say Dubas also wants a message that he isnt a push over in the league for future trades.
- Aaron_85

Dubas said other teams insisted on a significant price when the Leafs were in a similar situation and there’s no way he’s not doing the same.

I agree with this except the parts about fixed and inherited.
- daws44

You'll have to explain that one then.

He clearly inherited lots of problems that he has fixed.

Dubas said other teams insisted on a significant price when the Leafs were in a similar situation and there’s no way he’s not doing the same.
- Canada Cup

And good on him for it. Oilers pay of the help they get from the leafs or they will pay higher cap price. It's very simple.

People saying the leafs don't have a leg to stand on here are oblivious to the facts.

I think this is some embellishment here.

Sure there's been mistakes and with other teams like Washington, the GM who brought the core in didnt win the cup.

However, I think its a little hard to say there's been a ton of damage done here.

They have two top centers, they have a solid 1 to 3 d core.
They have prospects.
They have top wingers.
The only "bad" contract is marner and even then its only by a couple million.

I'm confident if the leafs didn't trade picks to "go for it" you people would all be pissed enough wasn't done at the deadline.

Foligno was the type of player they needed. I think quarantine and the injuries hurt the guy from finding a groove.
- Aaron_85

A lot of people like to use the imagery of Dubas being “bent over” in negotiations” - like a lot. I’m sure it means nothing.

The first penalty of the game, brought to you by Tampax, Number Zero Joel. Two minutes delay of game for repetitive smashing of the report function.

Maybe the refs are tired of your cry baby act after being dusted there Komisarek.
- DrunkenCanuck

Maybe if I ask, they will.
You're being an ass.

I think this is some embellishment here.

Sure there's been mistakes and with other teams like Washington, the GM who brought the core in didnt win the cup.

However, I think its a little hard to say there's been a ton of damage done here.

They have two top centers, they have a solid 1 to 3 d core.
They have prospects.
They have top wingers.
The only "bad" contract is marner and even then its only by a couple million.

I'm confident if the leafs didn't trade picks to "go for it" you people would all be pissed enough wasn't done at the deadline.

Foligno was the type of player they needed. I think quarantine and the injuries hurt the guy from finding a groove.
- Aaron_85

Yeah they are overpaying the 4th overall scorer by a bit, ruh roh!

I know losing in that fashion to the Habs in particular was traumatizing, but Leaf fans have gone totally on tilt this summer, even for them.

The Leafs will be a top contender this season and go on a deep run, with Marner of course a key part of it. But tweakers gonna tweak.

A lot of people like to use the imagery of Dubas being “bent over” in negotiations” - like a lot. I’m sure it means nothing.
- Canada Cup

He sucks a little at that but overall he's at like a B level of GM so far.

You'll have to explain that one then.

He clearly inherited lots of problems that he has fixed.
- burn

You’ll have to explain what problems he inherited and how he fixed them.
All I see is Zaitsev. The extra year on the terrible Marleau contract became a bigger problem because of his decisions.

Yeah they are overpaying the 4th overall scorer by a bit, ruh roh!

I know losing in that fashion to the Habs in particular was traumatizing, but Leaf fans have gone totally on tilt this summer, even for them.

The Leafs will be a top contender this season and go on a deep run, with Marner of course a key part of it. But tweakers gonna tweak.
- Zezel

Not sure.

The frozen salary cap means squeeze will get tighter each of the next four years.

Clearly, the Leafs will be strong in the regular season.

But, I wonder if they will be able to add the depth at the deadline to be able to make a deep playoff run.

Maybe the depth card is being overplayed. But, teams are putting so much emphasis on being 4 lines deep you have to wonder if the third and fourth lines are enough.

Yeah they are overpaying the 4th overall scorer by a bit, ruh roh!

I know losing in that fashion to the Habs in particular was traumatizing, but Leaf fans have gone totally on tilt this summer, even for them.

The Leafs will be a top contender this season and go on a deep run, with Marner of course a key part of it. But tweakers gonna tweak.
- Zezel

Overpaying JT by about $1M/year. A PPG player does not merit $11M.
Overpaying Marner by $2M/year. Is that "a bit"?

Based on Marners last 2 series of playoffs (heck make it 3), what leads you to believe he will contribute to a "deep run"?

And good on him for it. Oilers pay of the help they get from the leafs or they will pay higher cap price. It's very simple.

People saying the leafs don't have a leg to stand on here are oblivious to the facts.
- burn

So I think what people are missing is that it isn't like $360k of cap space once. It's every year. I think the compensation should have been higher.

female doges be cryin

So I think what people are missing is that it isn't like $360k of cap space once. It's every year. I think the compensation should have been higher.
- Aaron_85

That's what I was saying yesterday as well. It's not nothing

So I think what people are missing is that it isn't like $360k of cap space once. It's every year. I think the compensation should have been higher.
- Aaron_85

For seven years...then it's a cap hit of 5 million higher in the eighth year.

The extra year helps improve now - but there is a trade off with the longer contract. I wouldn't pay large value for the opportunity to overpay Hyman for 8 years instead of 7 either.

If a 6th was offered - I would have taken it. But maybe this is just Dubas showing he is willing to walk away if the price isn't right. I don't know.

female doges be cryin
- twiztedmike

Lol

You know that firing dubas doesn't change the cap structure or guarantee that new guy will/can change it?
- burn

Don't kid yourself. The new guy will be mandated/required to change it.

Not sure.

The frozen salary cap means squeeze will get tighter each of the next four years.

Clearly, the Leafs will be strong in the regular season.

But, I wonder if they will be able to add the depth at the deadline to be able to make a deep playoff run.

Maybe the depth card is being overplayed. But, teams are putting so much emphasis on being 4 lines deep you have to wonder if the third and fourth lines are enough.
- spatso

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...post_id=21692977#21692977

Overpaying JT by about $1M/year. A PPG player does not merit $11M.
Overpaying Marner by $2M/year. Is that "a bit"?

Based on Marners last 2 series of playoffs (heck make it 3), what leads you to believe he will contribute to a "deep run"?
- Nasty_Duck

Yes 2 million is a bit considering all the bad contracts that exist.

Also, that's what a PPG player was going for when Tavares signed. Seth Jones just got 9.5 million a year! What do you think a top center should get?

Don't kid yourself. The new guy will be mandated/required to change it.
- fifty__missions

If you want a GM to come in and blow $hit up then Jimmy Rutherford is the man.

Overpaying JT by about $1M/year. A PPG player does not merit $11M.
Overpaying Marner by $2M/year. Is that "a bit"?

Based on Marners last 2 series of playoffs (heck make it 3), what leads you to believe he will contribute to a "deep run"?
- Nasty_Duck

3 mil overpay (which is arguable) on elite players is most certainly not massive, especially when you look at pure dead cap that exists on some teams.

I find the idea that Marner, a point-per-game player since he was 18 and a legit scoring title threat (if McDavid gets hurt lol) entering his prime, will never have a good playoff (he's had one already), to be simply not a believable concept.

Why do so few people not understand the hyman situation?

I saw someone talking about the value of negotiating rights are traded for 4ths and 5ths, why leafs asking for a 2nd? Because they're not trading the negotiating rights?

The dimwits talking about "take something or take nothing". Yeah that's not how this works. The leafs are better off taking nothing rather than bow down and take less value than they should. Leafs get nothing (that's what happens with ufas) and the oilers have to deal with more cap.

People think that dubas is only doing this to screw hyman lol its brutal the level of understanding on the issues.

Edit: also a lot of people saying the leafs screwed up their cap and if they had enough space they'd have signed him. Hyman isn't leaving becuase the leafs don't have cal space for him he's leaving because people are stupidly paying him 5.5mil for 7-8 years. They could figure out how to keep him but he's not close to worth that.
- burn

The 8th year on a Hyman contract is absolute poison to a team's cap. I'm not sure why people can't figure this poop out.

Not only that, this year's draft was largely a mystery in terms of scouting as many players barely played (if at all). Every draft dart you have gives you a chance at hitting a bullseye. Why not maximize that?

Quibbling over a (frank)ing 3rd rounder vs a 6th rounder is simply silly this year.

The difference in cap space (375k AAV?) is not significant enough to warrant sitting on your hands in defiance. Especially when that team you're supposedly helping isn't in your conference.

I find it amusing that Dubas is willing to take a stand here when he literally bent himself over a barrel (CC!) for Mitch Marner and paid him millions more AAV than he needed to during their contract negotiations.

I don't know what Dubas was expecting. I don't know what Holland valued here as compensation. But if the difference was a a couple of rounds in this year's draft, that's (frank)ing dumb on both of their parts but more so on the Leafs.

Man, I would have loved for EDM to be saddled with a 5M+ contract in that 8th year.

Alas...