Yeah they are overpaying the 4th overall scorer by a bit, ruh roh!

I know losing in that fashion to the Habs in particular was traumatizing, but Leaf fans have gone totally on tilt this summer, even for them.

The Leafs will be a top contender this season and go on a deep run, with Marner of course a key part of it. But tweakers gonna tweak.
- Zezel

Can't see the forest for the individual trees, can you.

Zez, it's not the individual overpayments that are the problem. It's the overall cap structure of 4 forwards/40M that absolutely cripples the rest of the roster.

I'd go as far to say Dubas also wants a message that he isnt a push over in the league for future trades.
- Aaron_85

Looking at all of the trades Dubas has been involved in during his tenure with the club, what makes you think GMs around the league think he's a pushover when it comes to trading?

Contract negotiation? Absolutely.

Trades? Absolutely not.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.
It’s frightening to think about how much more damage can be done before he and the rest of the shanasham crew are turfed next spring.
- daws44

This is my biggest fear. Dubas blows even more future draft pieces because he has to go all-in before he's poopcanned.

Ugh.

I hope he figures this poop out and doesn't go bananas at the TDL.

Yeah they are overpaying the 4th overall scorer by a bit, ruh roh!

I know losing in that fashion to the Habs in particular was traumatizing, but Leaf fans have gone totally on tilt this summer, even for them.

The Leafs will be a top contender this season and go on a deep run, with Marner of course a key part of it. But tweakers gonna tweak.
- Zezel

This is basically where I fall in as well. The let down (again) was awful. The thing was that at the very start of the season when Bergevin acquired those guys - Edmundson, Allen, Toffoli, Anderson . . .it felt like he was building a playoff team. Then it sure looked like he hadn't until they got their feet under them and got some confidence.

The Leafs are a good team. My concern for them is that Dubas has fallen into the same trap that the late 90s Senators had (run by Dudley, Marshall and Johnston over those 6-7 years). Lots of skill. Some grit supporting them, but the stars didn't face adversity well enough to put them over the hump. I don't know much credit you give Muckler or Bryan Murray, but those guys made the Senators a better team - Muckler traded away Yashin which was probably the critical impetus for them being better; they never won the cup, but they reached the finals.

I think this year is Dubas' hill to die on, and if he does then we need to change the look of the core into something that resembles a core that will be successful in the playoffs. Maybe they're right. Maybe last year something woke up the team and made them realize that they have to find more in themselves. Marner did in the OHL. He carried London. He knows how to do it.

Can't see the forest for the individual trees, can you.

Zez, it's not the individual overpayments that are the problem. It's the overall cap structure of 4 forwards/40M that absolutely cripples the rest of the roster.
- fifty__missions

Constrained, not crippled. The structure means you can’t afford to (frank) up with bad signings into your remaining spots and it definitely means you can’t afford to have your key key pieces not perform in the playoffs.

Crippled is more dramatic though

Whered the two stooges go?

Can't see the forest for the individual trees, can you.

Zez, it's not the individual overpayments that are the problem. It's the overall cap structure of 4 forwards/40M that absolutely cripples the rest of the roster.
- fifty__missions

Don't know if after they just had their best winning percentage in a hundred years, and a Habs team that went to the final needed a key freak injury to Tavares and a unlikely comeback to barely escape a series where the Leafs outscored them, if I can honestly call the roster crippled.

The 8th year on a Hyman contract is absolute poison to a team's cap. I'm not sure why people can't figure this poop out.

Not only that, this year's draft was largely a mystery in terms of scouting as many players barely played (if at all). Every draft dart you have gives you a chance at hitting a bullseye. Why not maximize that?

Quibbling over a (frank)ing 3rd rounder vs a 6th rounder is simply silly this year.

The difference in cap space (375k AAV?) is not significant enough to warrant sitting on your hands in defiance. Especially when that team you're supposedly helping isn't in your conference.

I find it amusing that Dubas is willing to take a stand here when he literally bent himself over a barrel (CC!) for Mitch Marner and paid him millions more AAV than he needed to during their contract negotiations.

I don't know what Dubas was expecting. I don't know what Holland valued here as compensation. But if the difference was a a couple of rounds in this year's draft, that's (frank)ing dumb on both of their parts but more so on the Leafs.

Man, I would have loved for EDM to be saddled with a 5M+ contract in that 8th year.

Alas...
- mjones242

8 years would make sense if it was 4-4.25M.

Oilers still overpaying each season on a 7-8 year deal which is not good for a guy like him.

FA scares the poop out of me.

Hamilton and Schwartz are the only higher end guys in the class I feel safe signing.

Plus Landy but I think its unlikely now.

Constrained, not crippled. The structure means you can’t afford to (frank) up with bad signings into your remaining spots and it definitely means you can’t afford to have your key key pieces not perform in the playoffs.

Crippled is more dramatic though
- Canada Cup

I'm pretty sure we are not even going to have the ability to look at Cup-winning level goaltending, in part due to lack of cap flexibility and no assets to trade. Crippled.

Don't know if after they just had their best winning percentage in a hundred years, and a Habs team that went to the final needed a key freak injury to Tavares and a unlikely comeback to barely escape a series where the Leafs outscored them, if I can honestly call the roster crippled.
- Zezel

I wouldn't put too much weight on last years winning percentage - that could easily be an outlier due to the special circumstances. Will be going back to the original alignments.

Roster may not be "crippled" - but it has little to no flexibility. In a flat-cap era flexibility is an important factor.

8 years would make sense if it was 4-4.25M.

Oilers still overpaying each season on a 7-8 year deal which is not good for a guy like him.

FA scares the poop out of me.

Hamilton and Schwartz are the only higher end guys in the class I feel safe signing.

Plus Landy but I think its unlikely now.
- Santo_44

I'm thinking there's at least one "hockey" trade that Dubas is brewing and perhaps another for a prospect/picks package.

I don't think he wants to dip his toes into the UFA market (though I really, really wish he'd make a Hamilton signing work).

Landeskog I would love on this team but can you imagine the insanity of spending close to 50M on your forward group? I mean sure, I'd go for it if there were a bunch of Justin Holls available, amirite?

I'm pretty sure we are not even going to have the ability to look at Cup-winning level goaltending, in part due to lack of cap flexibility and no assets to trade. Crippled.
- fifty__missions

I’d go with castrated. That would really get people’s attention.

I wouldn't put too much weight on last years winning percentage - that could easily be an outlier due to the special circumstances. Will be going back to the original alignments.

Roster may not be "crippled" - but it has little to no flexibility. In a flat-cap era flexibility is an important factor.
- Nasty_Duck

I've said it before, as a Leafs fan, I've watched lots of mediocre teams. They don't endlessly beat up on other bubble teams. Only truly good teams do that. That's what happened last year in their division. They could go up against anyone in the league.

Whered the two stooges go?
- Fakepartofme

Having another awesome day in their successful lives??

Don't know if after they just had their best winning percentage in a hundred years, and a Habs team that went to the final needed a key freak injury to Tavares and a unlikely comeback to barely escape a series where the Leafs outscored them, if I can honestly call the roster crippled.
- Zezel

When you have half of your cap locked up into 4 players and have to rely on a deeply flawed bottom 6 forward group and bottom pairing to compensate, I'd say this team is in a very, very tough spot. It also doesn't help that our prospect pool is severely lacking these days.

I also don't put a whole lot of stock into their winning % last year. Smaller than usual sample set against 6 opponents does not necessarily translate.

The Carey Price "God" mode and Tavares injury shouldn't have cost the team 3 straight elimination games, right?

I'm thinking there's at least one "hockey" trade that Dubas is brewing and perhaps another for a prospect/picks package.

I don't think he wants to dip his toes into the UFA market (though I really, really wish he'd make a Hamilton signing work).

Landeskog I would love on this team but can you imagine the insanity of spending close to 50M on your forward group? I mean sure, I'd go for it if there were a bunch of Justin Holls available, amirite?
- mjones242

Actually Dubas has said his focus will be on the FA market and will loop into the trade market after

This is basically where I fall in as well. The let down (again) was awful. The thing was that at the very start of the season when Bergevin acquired those guys - Edmundson, Allen, Toffoli, Anderson . . .it felt like he was building a playoff team. Then it sure looked like he hadn't until they got their feet under them and got some confidence.

The Leafs are a good team. My concern for them is that Dubas has fallen into the same trap that the late 90s Senators had (run by Dudley, Marshall and Johnston over those 6-7 years). Lots of skill. Some grit supporting them, but the stars didn't face adversity well enough to put them over the hump. I don't know much credit you give Muckler or Bryan Murray, but those guys made the Senators a better team - Muckler traded away Yashin which was probably the critical impetus for them being better; they never won the cup, but they reached the finals.

I think this year is Dubas' hill to die on, and if he does then we need to change the look of the core into something that resembles a core that will be successful in the playoffs. Maybe they're right. Maybe last year something woke up the team and made them realize that they have to find more in themselves. Marner did in the OHL. He carried London. He knows how to do it.
- Monkeypunk

Nylander said as much. He hated feeling the way he felt. So he played better.

Actually Dubas has said his focus will be on the FA market and will loop into the trade market after
- Canada Cup

If we are talking a 2nd line forward add then its Jaden Schwartz or bust in the FA market for me.

Actually Dubas has said his focus will be on the FA market and will loop into the trade market after
- Canada Cup

The FA market opens on Wednesday. Of course he is focused on it. That doesn't mean he's going to make any significant changes to this club through FA.

I'm thinking there's at least one "hockey" trade that Dubas is brewing and perhaps another for a prospect/picks package.

I don't think he wants to dip his toes into the UFA market (though I really, really wish he'd make a Hamilton signing work).

Landeskog I would love on this team but can you imagine the insanity of spending close to 50M on your forward group? I mean sure, I'd go for it if there were a bunch of Justin Holls available, amirite?
- mjones242

Jaden Schwartz is an "element" I could see him adding. If he doesn't get him he will sign some bottom 6 forwards and trade for good forward I think.

The FA market opens on Wednesday. Of course he is focused on it. That doesn't mean he's going to make any significant changes to this club through FA.
- mjones242

Unlikely now though.

I think flat out prospect/picks trades will wait until after FA when the picture is more clear.

A goalie trade could happen before then though.

But even then I think you talk to players before you make any trades...should be a quiet few days.

When you have half of your cap locked up into 4 players and have to rely on a deeply flawed bottom 6 forward group and bottom pairing to compensate, I'd say this team is in a very, very tough spot. It also doesn't help that our prospect pool is severely lacking these days.

I also don't put a whole lot of stock into their winning % last year. Smaller than usual sample set against 6 opponents does not necessarily translate.

The Carey Price "God" mode and Tavares injury shouldn't have cost the team 3 straight elimination games, right?
- mjones242

If we aren't putting stock into the winning percentage then to be fair we have to look at everything and say "well it was because of the situation". Montreal would not have made the playoffs in a regular season. We can say "they got hot" and also say their roster shouldn't have worked either then.

Also, Tavares injury DOES suck. It sucks that Foligno and Muzzin were also injured.

I’d go with castrated. That would really get people’s attention.
- Canada Cup

Vasectomyized. No need to upset the eunuchs.

Unlikely now though.

I think flat out prospect/picks trades will wait until after FA when the picture is more clear.

A goalie trade could happen before then though.

But even then I think you talk to players before you make any trades...should be a quiet few days.
- Santo_44

I think the league will be quiet until Wednesday to be honest.

When you have half of your cap locked up into 4 players and have to rely on a deeply flawed bottom 6 forward group and bottom pairing to compensate, I'd say this team is in a very, very tough spot. It also doesn't help that our prospect pool is severely lacking these days.

I also don't put a whole lot of stock into their winning % last year. Smaller than usual sample set against 6 opponents does not necessarily translate.

The Carey Price "God" mode and Tavares injury shouldn't have cost the team 3 straight elimination games, right?
- mjones242

Tampa shouldn't have lost four straight to Columbus, but hockey is (frank)ed up like that.

Yes, we don't need to go through the whole Tampa contrast again, just saying.

Montreal escaped that series by the skin of their balls. The margins are very thin in the NHL.