Very true, what Fletcher was forced to do this off season is not sustainable and cannot happen every season. The Patriots were actually is a similar situation this off season. They pushed Brady out without a viable replacement, and draft poorly the last 4 or 5 drafts, so they fielded a very bad team last year. This forced ownership to spend $250M+ on free agents this offseason to try to get back into contention. This is not a sustainable way to field a contending team season after season, I agree. Again, this is why its important to hit on your draft picks! What I bolded in your response is important, because the Flyers did not trade all their picks, they traded a one first round pick in a weak draft, 2 future 2nd round picks and a 7th round pick. They still made 6 picks this year, and will be making picks in the future, so they have plenty of opportunity to hit on their picks.
- jd250

So JVR will be more tradable next season or even this deadline if the flyers are not in the po picture. The will figure out the cap. My guess is chuck will find a way to get his 2nd back next year, he will keep his first. I think the damage was this years first and while I am not a fan of giving up the first, cf really has no choice, the first this season is not an impact player till when?

Which means stuck in neutral and the waiting game. Then it would go to next season to draft again, hope for a difference maker. In that case I would have started moving players for picks and young prospects. Cf really and the Flyers really had no choice. They have enough to think they are a good team, good enough to try to add and not rebuild.

And this you just can’t get away from THE PLAYERS FROM LAST SEASON FORCED ALL OF THESE MOVES

It was always coming to this, are they a season early? Most likely. I would have loved to see Myers and Patrick in a normal season. But will Risto be much worse than a good Myers? Nah, they’ll bring different things but if both work out it’s a net win for both clubs. Risto being 26 is important. Will Ellis give more value than a Patrick who is productive? Probably for the next 3 years Ellis wins that side, maybe if Patrick ever gets it, then he would long term be valuable. But plenty of drafting will happen the next 3 years. Replacing Patrick or a top rhd? We know which one is more difficult to find.

Very true, but don't you have to go for it once and a while? I mean, what if Seth Jones gets hurt (God forbid) this coming season and misses significant time. Then comes back but never plays to the level he played before the injury. Was that a bad contract? Did Chicago make a bad mistake in trading for and signing Jones?

Fletcher signed Hayes which I thought at the time was a bad contract. Hextall signed JVR which at the time I thought was a bad contract. But circumstances at the time dictated some of these moves, so yes you want to avoid them, but sometimes you just can't.
- jd250

Not every once in a while. Go for it once you're in a position to go for it. When the time is right. When you just have to supplement what you built rather than try and trade and sign your way there. Which rarely happens in this league.

Analytics can be used as a tool and analytics can be used by a tool.

All kidding aside, I suppose we'll have to see how it plays out. While we may have overpaid, other teams saw something they liked and were willing to pay a somewhat similar price.

Take away next year's cap and assuming Eichel is 100% healthy, would you trade Couturier to get 4 years younger with a $2m cap hit (assuming Couturier gets around $8M/yr)?
- GeorgeBailey

With his back issue. No.

Listen, this will all be settled in a few months. Unlike you, I will judge this trade based on the results it yields, not speculate on how bad RR will play based on his "relative" metrics accumulated while playing for the worst team in the league for several years. I for one am excited that the Flyers got RR and I am looking forward to seeing how he does here. Make no mistake, if he Sucks, you will see me posting it. But to try to poo-poo what has been an outstanding week for CF and for anyone that loves this team is just not needed at the moment. Can't we just be happy and celebrate for a day or two? I for one think the RR will do much better on the Flyers. I have been wrong one or twice before, so let's see what happens first.
- jd250

I will merely repeat the central point:

Relative possession stats tend to go in the opposite direction of absolute ones. When a good player goes to a bad team from a good one, his relative possession stats tend to IMPROVE. Thus, the fact that he is moving from a bad team to a better one suggests a source of concern.

If you don't like this fact, complain to Eric Tulsky. He is responsible for noticing it, not me, though it makes good sense when you think about it.

https://www.nhl.com/hurri...m/staff/hockey-operations

EDIT: he being Risto, ofc.

So JVR will be more tradable next season or even this deadline if the flyers are not in the po picture. The will figure out the cap. My guess is chuck will find a way to get his 2nd back next year, he will keep his first. I think the damage was this years first and while I am not a fan of giving up the first, cf really has no choice, the first this season is not an impact player till when?

Which means stuck in neutral and the waiting game. Then it would go to next season to draft again, hope for a difference maker. In that case I would have started moving players for picks and young prospects. Cf really and the Flyers really had no choice. They have enough to think they are a good team, good enough to try to add and not rebuild.

And this you just can’t get away from THE PLAYERS FROM LAST SEASON FORCED ALL OF THESE MOVES

It was always coming to this, are they a season early? Most likely. I would have loved to see Myers and Patrick in a normal season. But will Risto be much worse than a good Myers? Nah, they’ll bring different things but if both work out it’s a net win for both clubs. Risto being 26 is important. Will Ellis give more value than a Patrick who is productive? Probably for the next 3 years Ellis wins that side, maybe if Patrick ever gets it, then he would long term be valuable. But plenty of drafting will happen the next 3 years. Replacing Patrick or a top rhd? We know which one is more difficult to find.
- wcorvette

Risto is that age and in the last year of his deal with UFA leverage. Are you comfortable signing him for six years for 7M a year? Right now I'm not. Maybe I will be after watching him play for a season.

For what its worth, and this is just my speculation, I think Hayes was hurt a lot more than he lead on. I mean his injury required surgery in the offseason, so that implies a certain level of seriousness.
- jd250

Core muscle as well or I. The area.

Risto is that age and in the last year of his deal with UFA leverage. Are you comfortable signing him for six years for 7M a year? Right now I'm not. Maybe I will be after watching him play for a season.
- MJL

Who says that’s the contract?

Risto is that age and in the last year of his deal with UFA leverage. Are you comfortable signing him for six years for 7M a year? Right now I'm not. Maybe I will be after watching him play for a season.
- MJL

Same, I think CF is going about it the right way. Risk for the flyers and Risto, it’s all about Risto plays.

With his back issue. No.
- MJL

I thought it was his neck.


Maybe it was his crack...

I will merely repeat the central point:

Relative possession stats tend to go in the opposite direction of absolute ones. When a good player goes to a bad team from a good one, his relative possession stats tend to IMPROVE. Thus, the fact that he is moving from a bad team to a better one suggests a source of concern.


- PT21

I don't believe that to be accurate.

Can't help but get personal. For someone who claims to be intellectually superior, it's amazing that you constantly have to resort to that.
- MJL

Stop whining Wayne.

I thought it was his neck.


Maybe it was his crack...
- Glak18

Yes, you're correct. It is his neck.

Risto is that age and in the last year of his deal with UFA leverage. Are you comfortable signing him for six years for 7M a year? Right now I'm not. Maybe I will be after watching him play for a season.
- MJL

even if he is good, we need budgets on certain positions. you want your 2nd line Dman making 7M? I guess if we do that, we need some cheap salaries somewhere else.

Who says that’s the contract?
- Peter Richards

It's speculation and in the ball park of what I think it would take.

last semester I had a data science class, running python, that was put together by a team at UC Berkeley. There was a lot of very interesting situations to apply the data but the code writing was horrendous
- THE BLACK HAND

proc freq

even if he is good, we need budgets on certain positions. you want your 2nd line Dman making 7M? I guess if we do that, we need some cheap salaries somewhere else.
- bradster

Whether he is 2nd pair or 1st pair. If he has a good year, he is a RH UFA defenseman who many teams were interested in. He has all the leverage

Not every once in a while. Go for it once you're in a position to go for it. When the time is right. When you just have to supplement what you built rather than try and trade and sign your way there. Which rarely happens in this league.
- MJL

The time is right is very subjective. Not just your time is right projection.

Whether he is 2nd pair or 1st pair. If he has a good year, he is a RH UFA defenseman who many teams were interested in. He has all the leverage
- MJL

yes, you asked me if i was comfortable with 7M, and im saying not really, need to see what cheap contracts we have to offset it. I assume if we go for extending him, we need someone to step into #21s spot on a cheap contract. JOB or Frost or Tanner Forester. But need some cheap contract to step up. Cates maybe

Word of advice, don't share personal or family information with PT21. He's already tried to use the death of my Father against me in a personal attack.
- MJL

Given his political beliefs, it's a no brainer to not share personal info with the guy.

Given his political beliefs, it's a no brainer to not share personal info with the guy.
- Sir_Robot_Farts

ya, he started listing off what he knows about me a little earlier. Its more than a little weird. Suprised he didnt fire out my address and social security number

ya, he started listing off what he knows about me a little earlier. Its more than a little weird. Suprised he didnt fire out my address and social security number
- bradster

The only reason I didn't is because my 4 children asked me not to.

Not because I don't know.

ya, he started listing off what he knows about me a little earlier. Its more than a little weird. Suprised he didnt fire out my address and social security number
- bradster

Yeah he was making comments about where I moved from and where I was living in this thread. Not sure what the point was…

Yeah he was making comments about where I moved from and where I was living in this thread. Not sure what the point was…
- black_francis

he must be really busy

This is how I am justifying the Risto trade:

The cost of Risto was a 1st round pick, whether people like it or not.

The Flyers get to improve their top 4 depth and add a little more physicality and puck movement to it.

Now if the Flyers didn't make the move then they could be looking for a rental at the TDL which is basically giving up a 1st, so instead they give up a 2nd and Hagg to have that rental all year.

That's how I'm twisting it and sticking with it.
- Glak18

I like the way you think! Twist it and stick to it!
Words to live by!
If risto does showcase the potential, that apparently so many GMs see in him, this upcoming year then he is worth what we paid and I really think a Change of scenery and being anywhere except buffalo will be good for him

Sorry if this was already asked, but Bill (or anyone that knows), is there a plan to hear from AV about all these moves? I'm curious to hear his take and hopefully he'll give some meaningful answers to some extent and not just coach-speak