Ya maybe, never heard that about him..but he’s also injury prone.


Puts up some good #’s though

.919 career

.921 2019-2020
- Garnie

Yeah I'd not have been upset if he came here. But whatever. We all know its Campbells net to lose and its on the core to win.

Renaud Lavoie
@renlavoietva
·
2m
Two year deal for Jonathan Bernier with the @NJDevils
around $8M total.

The better question should be: is Justin Holl a legitimate Top 4 defender on a Cup favourite team?
- mjones242

It's a fair question. I don't love Holl, but I don't hate him either. For the most part he isn't overmatched in a top-4 role, he's just not physical or that impressive - but he's positionally sound for the most part. He had fantastic numbers for the first half of last year and then normalized out. Is he going to be worse this year, or will there be some progression? Or about the same? If he did manage to get better (and for the record I don't think it is happening) then sure, he's a legitimate affordable option.

As an example: Was 25 year old Joel Edmundson a legitimate top-4 D-Man on a cup team until he won a cup as the #4 guy? Michael Kempny in Washington? Justin Schultz on Pittsburgh's last cup? Ben Lovejoy on Pittsburgh's cup prior to that? Tampa's #4 guy the last two cups was Cernak.

The point is that the #4 guy isn't some flashy great D-man, and usually is not as good as the #3 guy. Holl fits right in.

This is the issue. We've created a situation where we have to run with a miscast guy because we refuse to pivot on any of the Core. The defenders will say, "find me a better 2M defenceman" to which I will reply, "is a 2M defenceman appropriate for the role?".

Anyway, beating a dead horse here.

Per the Leafs, I think they're certainly a Cup contending team but maybe no longer a "favourite". We'll see.
- mjones242

We can get Ceci and his 3.25 million to fill the role. You know. Not a 2 million dollar guy. Or Tyson barrie and his 4.5.

If Holl falters id like to see a trade for a guy mid season.

So Mrazek, Bunting, the young d kid from the Wild.

Need some big move. Put a stamp on things somehow.
- Roadrunner75

Not happening unfortunately.

It's a fair question. I don't love Holl, but I don't hate him either. For the most part he isn't overmatched in a top-4 role, he's just not physical or that impressive - but he's positionally sound for the most part. He had fantastic numbers for the first half of last year and then normalized out. Is he going to be worse this year, or will there be some progression? Or about the same? If he did manage to get better (and for the record I don't think it is happening) then sure, he's a legitimate affordable option.

As an example: Was 25 year old Joel Edmundson a legitimate top-4 D-Man on a cup team until he won a cup as the #4 guy? Michael Kempny in Washington? Justin Schultz on Pittsburgh's last cup? Ben Lovejoy on Pittsburgh's cup prior to that? Tampa's #4 guy the last two cups was Cernak.

The point is that the #4 guy isn't some flashy great D-man, and usually is not as good as the #3 guy. Holl fits right in.
- Monkeypunk

^^^

Renaud Lavoie
@renlavoietva
·
2m
Two year deal for Jonathan Bernier with the @NJDevils
around $8M total.
- 21peter

Reimer only got 2.5 per.
Wow bernier

This is the issue. We've created a situation where we have to run with a miscast guy because we refuse to pivot on any of the Core. The defenders will say, "find me a better 2M defenceman" to which I will reply, "is a 2M defenceman appropriate for the role?".

Anyway, beating a dead horse here.

Per the Leafs, I think they're certainly a Cup contending team but maybe no longer a "favourite". We'll see.
- mjones242

Biggest issue I have is if Muzzin goes down.

I'll accept Holl is a top 4 defenseman when paired with Muzzin. But then Muzzin gets hurt and Holl goes back to being a #5 and we are euchred.

Savard would have been nice insurance at 3.5.

Feels like half the deals have been for goalies today

The better question should be: is Justin Holl a legitimate Top 4 defender on a Cup favourite team?
- mjones242

Let me get back to you on that

Renaud Lavoie
@renlavoietva
·
2m
Two year deal for Jonathan Bernier with the @NJDevils
around $8M total.
- 21peter

What the hell?

I thought bernier was done like 4 years ago

Reimer only got 2.5 per.
Wow bernier
- Fakepartofme

Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
·
2m
Jonathan Bernier NJ 2x$4.125

Renaud Lavoie
@renlavoietva
·
2m
Two year deal for Jonathan Bernier with the @NJDevils
around $8M total.
- 21peter

NJD needs 6M ish to make it to the cap floor and have a ton of cap space.

Biggest issue I have is if Muzzin goes down.

I'll accept Holl is a top 4 defenseman when paired with Muzzin. But then Muzzin gets hurt and Holl goes back to being a #5 and we are euchred.

Savard would have been nice insurance at 3.5.
- Leafs43

Let's also set a baseline for reality in this: There is a flat cap and teams that already have an aggressive payroll are not going to have the luxury of signing insurance options. Whether they've placed $40m in 4 forwards or distributed their capital otherwise, it doesn't matter.

The teams that are further into their rebuilds and have had more time to stock their systems with developing prospects are going to have some insurance in-house and perhaps have the ability to shift their cap into better options in the top-4 D and top-6 F because they have developing prospects in the other roles in cheap contracts.

Rebuilding teams or retooling teams are going to have more cap and more room to shift things around - but in a lot of cases, they would similarly struggle with the loss of a top-4 D-man.

Reimer only got 2.5 per.
Wow bernier
- Fakepartofme

We see who the better goalie was eh?

*struts around the kitchen*

NJD needs 6M ish to make it to the cap floor and have a ton of cap space.
- dmnted

Maybe Hamilton isn't going there?

We see who the better goalie was eh?

*struts around the kitchen in my birthday suit*
- Garnie

hope you're not cooking bacon

It's a fair question. I don't love Holl, but I don't hate him either. For the most part he isn't overmatched in a top-4 role, he's just not physical or that impressive - but he's positionally sound for the most part. He had fantastic numbers for the first half of last year and then normalized out. Is he going to be worse this year, or will there be some progression? Or about the same? If he did manage to get better (and for the record I don't think it is happening) then sure, he's a legitimate affordable option.

As an example: Was 25 year old Joel Edmundson a legitimate top-4 D-Man on a cup team until he won a cup as the #4 guy? Michael Kempny in Washington? Justin Schultz on Pittsburgh's last cup? Ben Lovejoy on Pittsburgh's cup prior to that? Tampa's #4 guy the last two cups was Cernak.

The point is that the #4 guy isn't some flashy great D-man, and usually is not as good as the #3 guy. Holl fits right in.
- Monkeypunk

He’s ok, held together by Muzz.

Probably put any of our D with him and they’d look ok.

He’s here, so I’ll cheer for the (frank)er

Let's also set a baseline for reality in this: There is a flat cap and teams that already have an aggressive payroll are not going to have the luxury of signing insurance options. Whether they've placed $40m in 4 forwards or distributed their capital otherwise, it doesn't matter.

The teams that are further into their rebuilds and have had more time to stock their systems with developing prospects are going to have some insurance in-house and perhaps have the ability to shift their cap into better options in the top-4 D and top-6 F because they have developing prospects in the other roles in cheap contracts.

Rebuilding teams or retooling teams are going to have more cap and more room to shift things around - but in a lot of cases, they would similarly struggle with the loss of a top-4 D-man.
- Monkeypunk

I appreciate your posts

Maybe Hamilton isn't going there?
- Aaron_85

must be a snag in the negotiation

It's a fair question. I don't love Holl, but I don't hate him either. For the most part he isn't overmatched in a top-4 role, he's just not physical or that impressive - but he's positionally sound for the most part. He had fantastic numbers for the first half of last year and then normalized out. Is he going to be worse this year, or will there be some progression? Or about the same? If he did manage to get better (and for the record I don't think it is happening) then sure, he's a legitimate affordable option.

As an example: Was 25 year old Joel Edmundson a legitimate top-4 D-Man on a cup team until he won a cup as the #4 guy? Michael Kempny in Washington? Justin Schultz on Pittsburgh's last cup? Ben Lovejoy on Pittsburgh's cup prior to that? Tampa's #4 guy the last two cups was Cernak.

The point is that the #4 guy isn't some flashy great D-man, and usually is not as good as the #3 guy. Holl fits right in.
- Monkeypunk

With all due respect, I disagree.

Biggest issue I have is if Muzzin goes down.

I'll accept Holl is a top 4 defenseman when paired with Muzzin. But then Muzzin gets hurt and Holl goes back to being a #5 and we are euchred.

Savard would have been nice insurance at 3.5.
- Leafs43

thats unpossible

Tampa won back to back cups and good for them.

They have had their team ripped apart this off season though.

Savard
Johnson
Goodrow
Coleman
Gourde

They signed Elliott for back up for 900k.

Maybe Hamilton isn't going there?
- Aaron_85

Where was he rumored to be going? NJ?

Let me get back to you on that
- Canada Cup

Don't bother.