The environment last year on the Flyers, especially for a young defenseman was difficult at best. Myers was clearly in a mental funk and had a severe lack of confidence. This led to the player making repeated mistakes as well as having periods where he was non-competitive and hesitant. However before that, he was a riser as a undrafted UFA and on a steady developmental course to the NHL. All of a sudden he developed questionable hockey sense? He caught like it was a cold or some other virus? With the Flyers having Ellis, Provorov who I don't like on the PP and now Yandle, they can live without Ristolainen having to play on the PP. I understand you like the Rsitolainen trade and I hope you're right but I would bet on Myers rebounding on a team that is known for developing defenseman and righting his game and becoming a pretty good player long term.
- MJL

I think your looking at this with your flyers glasses. Wasn’t drafted. Didn’t receive and offer from Calgary when he went to their camp. Yes he improved but this is due to his pure athleticism. Yes his hockey sense is in question. A lot of us didn’t get to see him play before. So how could we know.

The environment last year on the Flyers, especially for a young defenseman was difficult at best. Myers was clearly in a mental funk and had a severe lack of confidence. This led to the player making repeated mistakes as well as having periods where he was non-competitive and hesitant. However before that, he was a riser as a undrafted UFA and on a steady developmental course to the NHL. All of a sudden he developed questionable hockey sense? He caught like it was a cold or some other virus? With the Flyers having Ellis, Provorov who I don't like on the PP and now Yandle, they can live without Ristolainen having to play on the PP. I understand you like the Rsitolainen trade and I hope you're right but I would bet on Myers rebounding on a team that is known for developing defenseman and righting his game and becoming a pretty good player long term.
- MJL

I think MYers will settle in as a very good 4th D. That said, Risto is a fair replacement who brings some of the attributes the team was missing at a similar age. The down side the cap hit and expiring contract, the upside, if Risto is just a bit better being with a better team, it will bring the Flyers something they needed and really have value. If Myers was affected by a bad team then I guess Risto was decimated by the shxt show in Buf.

I think you are missing the point that chuck cant rely on York after 3 games, like he relied on Meyers last year. York played 3 games, did well in the AHL, but the AHL had their best players up on the taxi squad of the NHL teams. The AHL should be a little better this year.
- bradster

I think you're wrong that I'm missing that point. I think you're missing the point that there is a big difference between relying on a young player to play in the top 4 of a defense versus as #6 on the 3rd pair. As I said in my post, they could've signed a player as a #7 and a fall back if York falters. They also have Morin. Instead they signed Yandle to be a regular in the top 6. Effectively taking away any legitimate chance York has to earn a spot in the top 6 barring injury.

Myers will never be particularly ornery on the ice -- not his personality -- and he'll never be a power play candidate in the NHL. His shot release isn't going to get markedly faster. His reads and decision making are spotty (as are Ristolainen's). I do think Myers can bounce back at least to the level he showed in 2019-20. He's absolutely an NHL defenseman but I don't think he'll ever be a top 3.

Re: PP, I don't think Ristolainen will get near 40 points this year because Yandle and Ellis will most likely be the main PP guys. But we know he CAN do it, because he did it four straight years. Ristolainen is far from a perfect player. But he isn't garbage, either, and (analytics aside) he was a better player at ages 21-24 than Myers has been over of the same time period.
- bmeltzer

You don't need to be ornery to be a good NHL defenseman. Just have to be strong on the puck. I don't think Myers was ever expected to develop into a PP candidate.

Something else to consider: The way that many young players stick in the NHL is in a season where they start in the AHL, an injury opens an opportunity for a callup, they crush it in the call-up and stay in the NHL. That, in fact, was the exact way that Shayne Gostisbehere got to the NHL for his Calder runner-up season. It was also Claude Giroux's path after a subpar training camp.
- bmeltzer

So-

seems some think that AV will default to playing the VETs just brought in as opposed to playing younger players. York will not get time or Thompson will block others...

your opinion? Does AV have a bias?

if it is close does AV go with the vet?

I will ask just for the hell of it, if the young player has a really good camp will they get the spot??

I think your looking at this with your flyers glasses. Wasn’t drafted. Didn’t receive and offer from Calgary when he went to their camp. Yes he improved but this is due to his pure athleticism. Yes his hockey sense is in question. A lot of us didn’t get to see him play before. So how could we know.
- Peter Richards

Once a player makes it to the NHL, the fact that he was never drafted is irrelevant. That he didn't receive an offer from Calgary is also irrelevant. Your comment that a lot of people didn't get to see him play doesn't make sense. Myers played 71 NHL games before last season. Where were the reports of questionable hockey sense then? Where were the reports of his questionable hockey sense from his AHL time? Your comment that I'm looking at this with my Flyers glasses on is stupid.

So-

seems some think that AV will default to playing the VETs just brought in as opposed to playing younger players. York will not get time or Thompson will block others...

your opinion? Does AV have a bias?

if it is close does AV go with the vet?

I will ask just for the hell of it, if the young player has a really good camp will they get the spot??
- wcorvette

Thompson was so awful in that Islanders playoff series. Getting hemmed in the defensive zone every time he stepped on the ice. Just ridiculous recycling this guy.

I think MYers will settle in as a very good 4th D. That said, Risto is a fair replacement who brings some of the attributes the team was missing at a similar age. The down side the cap hit and expiring contract, the upside, if Risto is just a bit better being with a better team, it will bring the Flyers something they needed and really have value. If Myers was affected by a bad team then I guess Risto was decimated by the shxt show in Buf.
- wcorvette

I don't think there is any question that we have to consider the team in Buffalo that he played on as a factor when looking at the analytic argument. That we have to consider that the player can absolutely improve playing on a better team with better players and keep an open mind.

I think you're wrong that I'm missing that point. I think you're missing the point that there is a big difference between relying on a young player to play in the top 4 of a defense versus as #6 on the 3rd pair. As I said in my post, they could've signed a player as a #7 and a fall back if York falters. They also have Morin. Instead they signed Yandle to be a regular in the top 6. Effectively taking away any legitimate chance York has to earn a spot in the top 6 barring injury.
- MJL

And that's fine, If york isn't ready he isn't ready. Can you say right now York is ready to be an NHL regular.....? And that was the point, CHuck needed to protect against him not being ready

Imagine being gifted the second pick in a loaded draft and him being among the worst players in the NHL. As pathetic as it gets.
- PLindbergh31

Patrick's NHL rookie season at 19 was comparable to many players who've gone on to be impact players. It was fine. Not great, but nothing alarming. His development was flat in year two, though, which was a little concerning. Then the missed season and an awful season last year. He's a better player than THAT.

In hindsight, was Hexy wrong to overrule his scouts? Probably. While there was no specific consensus between Patrick, Heiskanen and Makar, apparently enough scouts to form a consensus would have advocated for either of the latter two (apparently with Heiskanen being the preference because Makar was a Junior-A player, which entailed more of a leap of faith). Ron felt differently, strongly wanting the big righthanded center who'd been the virtual unanimous No. 1 candidate leaguewide heading into 2016-17.

The concerns about Patrick, apart from injury, were as follows:

* His 2016-17 was not as good as his 2015-16 season. Not just statistically but in terms of consistency. Was it the sports hernia or had others bypassed him? Hischier was one who bypassed him on many lists. Others? That was up for debate. Keep in mind that Patrick is a late birthday player. Had he been born on Sept 15, 1998 and not Sept 19 of that year, he'd have been eligible for the 2016 Draft (and still would have been a lottery player, although not at the very top).

* A tendency in his Draft-eligible year to fall back too often on a perimeter game. That worked in the WHL because he was physically mature already and more gifted than his opponents. Many thought it was just the product of playing through the first sports hernia surgery. But he's shown the same thing for long stretches in the NHL.

* He didn't interview well at the Draft Combine. That's not make or break.

But I will add this, Pavel and you can't deny this is true: If the Flyers had gone for one of the D-men and that player had a meh start to his NHL career and Patrick had been the 30-goal, 60-point, two-way impact player that he was widely predicted to be, you'd be talking about how pathetic it was that "there was a slam-dunk impact player on the board that the Flyers didn't take due to an injury that's long since healed." You'd take glee in it, in fact.

Patrick's NHL rookie season at 19 was comparable to many players who've gone on to be impact players. It was fine. Not great, but nothing alarming. His development was flat in year two, though, which was a little concerning. Then the missed season and an awful season last year. He's a better player than THAT.

In hindsight, was Hexy wrong to overrule his scouts? Probably. While there was no specific consensus between Patrick, Heiskanen and Makar, apparently enough scouts to form a consensus would have advocated for either of the latter two (apparently with Heiskanen being the preference because Makar was a Junior-A player, which entailed more of a leap of faith). Ron felt differently, strongly wanting the big righthanded center who'd been the virtual unanimous No. 1 candidate leaguewide heading into 2016-17.

The concerns about Patrick, apart from injury, were as follows:

* His 2016-17 was not as good as his 2015-16 season. Not just statistically but in terms of consistency. Was it the sports hernia or had others bypassed him? Hischier was one who bypassed him on many lists. Others? That was up for debate. Keep in mind that Patrick is a late birthday player. Had he been born on Sept 15, 1998 and not Sept 19 of that year, he'd have been eligible for the 2016 Draft (and still would have been a lottery player, although not at the very top).

* A tendency in his Draft-eligible year to fall back too often on a perimeter game. That worked in the WHL because he was physically mature already and more gifted than his opponents. Many thought it was just the product of playing through the first sports hernia surgery. But he's shown the same thing for long stretches in the NHL.

* He didn't interview well at the Draft Combine. That's not make or break.

But I will add this, Pavel and you can't deny this is true: If the Flyers had gone for one of the D-men and that player had a meh start to his NHL career and Patrick had been the 30-goal, 60-point, two-way impact player that he was widely predicted to be, you'd be talking about how pathetic it was that "there was a slam-dunk impact player on the board that the Flyers didn't take due to an injury that's long since healed." You'd take glee in it, in fact.
- bmeltzer

With Patrick's known migraine history he should have been taken off the Flyers draft board. Simple, end of discussion.

I'll tell you, I really like Fletcher. I like his logic, demeanor and availability. I was not a fan of the Martin Jones signing, but after hearing the reasoning behind the signing from Fletcher, I think it was a good move. The Flyers have a lot of key players that will need new contracts next season (unless they are traded before then), including Couturier, Farabee and Giroux. Thus the Flyers were not able to compete for FAs where other teams were offering multi year deals. I mean Ullmark would have been a great signing, but he got 4 years at $5M from Boston, and the Flyers just could not compete with that. So much for the flat-salary cap impacting contracts!

So-

seems some think that AV will default to playing the VETs just brought in as opposed to playing younger players. York will not get time or Thompson will block others...

your opinion? Does AV have a bias?

if it is close does AV go with the vet?

I will ask just for the hell of it, if the young player has a really good camp will they get the spot??
- wcorvette

I think Thompson may be the opening night 4C. I'd be disappointed if he's that all season. I personally think Laczynski is NHL ready. He just has to be healthier than he was last season. Laczynski is an older prospect.

Zero problem with York, at 20, getting more AHL time. He held his own overall in his three NHL games last season and you could see flashes of the traits that have scouts excited about him. But he certainly didn't scream out "pencil me into the NHL starting lineup right away." If it takes two months, half a season, even a full year, so be it. Yandle is a placeholder for the time being.

In terms of young players having good camps and winning spots, who expected Twarynski or Bunnaman to win opening night roster spots two seasons ago? But they both played so well in camp that they earned it. Neither sustained it once the regular season began, but yes, there is a threshold where a young player can win a spot out of camp. Farabee only spent a couple games with the Phantoms before he came up the first time.

Now, if it's close, does AV go with the vet? Probably. But you can say that of the majority of NHL coaches. So would Lavy or Quenneville, just to name two.

With Patrick's known migraine history he should have been taken off the Flyers draft board. Simple, end of discussion.
- PLindbergh31

Except that the hereditary migraine issues, which reportedly presented with him for a while in his early teens apparently and then went away for a number of years, wasn't something that was ever discussed much in any circles. It was his assorted injuries that came after that, especially the bilateral sports hernias, that came up over and over.

i will stand arms outstretched, pretend i'm free to roam
i will make my way, through, one more day in hell...
how much difference does it make

The environment last year on the Flyers, especially for a young defenseman was difficult at best. Myers was clearly in a mental funk and had a severe lack of confidence. This led to the player making repeated mistakes as well as having periods where he was non-competitive and hesitant. However before that, he was a riser as a undrafted UFA and on a steady developmental course to the NHL. All of a sudden he developed questionable hockey sense? He caught like it was a cold or some other virus? With the Flyers having Ellis, Provorov who I don't like on the PP and now Yandle, they can live without Ristolainen having to play on the PP. I understand you like the Rsitolainen trade and I hope you're right but I would bet on Myers rebounding on a team that is known for developing defenseman and righting his game and becoming a pretty good player long term.
- MJL

Nothing by excuses. Nashville also has whiffed on several dman over the years. In 2 years he will be a stud. Just give him time right?

Myers will never be particularly ornery on the ice -- not his personality -- and he'll never be a power play candidate in the NHL. His shot release isn't going to get markedly faster. His reads and decision making are spotty (as are Ristolainen's). I do think Myers can bounce back at least to the level he showed in 2019-20. He's absolutely an NHL defenseman but I don't think he'll ever be a top 3.

Re: PP, I don't think Ristolainen will get near 40 points this year because Yandle and Ellis will most likely be the main PP guys. But we know he CAN do it, because he did it four straight years. Ristolainen is far from a perfect player. But he isn't garbage, either, and (analytics aside) he was a better player at ages 21-24 than Myers has been over of the same time period.
- bmeltzer

Will the coaches think out of the box and maybe give Risto a shot on top pp instead of the 2 name guys? He has shown he can do it.

Hopefully Ivan is taken off as he just doesn't it for me eon the PP at all.

Once a player makes it to the NHL, the fact that he was never drafted is irrelevant. That he didn't receive an offer from Calgary is also irrelevant. Your comment that a lot of people didn't get to see him play doesn't make sense. Myers played 71 NHL games before last season. Where were the reports of questionable hockey sense then? Where were the reports of his questionable hockey sense from his AHL time? Your comment that I'm looking at this with my Flyers glasses on is stupid.
- MJL

maybe no one questioned his hockey sense because they were a winning team and not under a microscope. Fact is the coach called him out several times because he didn't' do what they were teaching him to do. Simple things. Repeatedly.

My only issue with Risto is his next contract, is there any chance he doesn’t get a raise?

maybe no one questioned his hockey sense because they were a winning team and not under a microscope. Fact is the coach called him out several times because he didn't' do what they were teaching him to do. Simple things. Repeatedly.
- hello it's me 2050

I questioned his hockey IQ last year and got laughed at in here...how times have changed

And that's fine, If york isn't ready he isn't ready. Can you say right now York is ready to be an NHL regular.....? And that was the point, CHuck needed to protect against him not being ready
- bradster

Your correct….how can anyone know what a guy like York will bring this year when we are still in July ? The Flyers Have added two legit top 4 d man and that allows them to develop York at the proper pace….maybe he comes in and blows his way on the team? Maybe he needs a bit of time. Risto is still a young d man just coming in to his prime years. Unlike Myers, he’s been in the NHL 8 years and been an all situation d man. Is he a perfect d man? No. But to compare a guy that hasn’t even played 2 full seasons and suggest they are the same hemisphere is laughable. Myers was brutal in half those NHL games…there’s also that.

maybe no one questioned his hockey sense because they were a winning team and not under a microscope. Fact is the coach called him out several times because he didn't' do what they were teaching him to do. Simple things. Repeatedly.
- hello it's me 2050

Myers needed a change of scenery. Whatever his ceiling is, he clearly wasn't reaching it playing for Vigneault.

I think he's a much better player than hes shown so far in the NHL. You need about 300 games in the NHL to really judge a defensemen. Flyers unfortunately need more of a sure thing at this point in time.

Thompson was so awful in that Islanders playoff series. Getting hemmed in the defensive zone every time he stepped on the ice. Just ridiculous recycling this guy.
- PLindbergh31

Yep. You want a vet ok. Get one that can at least contribute. He is slow as balls. The grit part is even funnier.

In no order just naming names:

clode - ex selke - cam
jvr- hayes - joel
tk - frost/laughton- allison
laughton- Nate - lindblom

Tanner - NAK - anyone missing?

I'll tell you, I really like Fletcher. I like his logic, demeanor and availability. I was not a fan of the Martin Jones signing, but after hearing the reasoning behind the signing from Fletcher, I think it was a good move. The Flyers have a lot of key players that will need new contracts next season (unless they are traded before then), including Couturier, Farabee and Giroux. Thus the Flyers were not able to compete for FAs where other teams were offering multi year deals. I mean Ullmark would have been a great signing, but he got 4 years at $5M from Boston, and the Flyers just could not compete with that. So much for the flat-salary cap impacting contracts!
- jd250

I shared your thoughts about Jones as well and hoping for better results in remade team and locker room here. I think the one year deal also indicates they have hope to elevate someone from the farm system as backup next year

Almost (not every) armchair GM here acts as if Fletcher can do whatever he wants but in fact is following the direction of his employer in a capanomics world...I want to see another Cup here as much as anyone... but as that line from Slapshot goes, they forget " Who owns da Cheefs" not a single one of us. Unless you have shares in Comcast at best we are customers of a product they own and distribute for fees.

My only issue with Risto is his next contract, is there any chance he doesn’t get a raise?
- ClaudeFather

Literally zero.

He could have an average season and he's still likely getting 6-6.5mil. If he were to somehow set say, a new career high in points, it's going to be north of 7.