We can probably all agree that the current roster is better than the roster we had on opening night last year. If you do not remember take a look at the lineup on day 1 of last year. Yuk!!!!
https://www.hockey-refere...xscores/202101130TBL.html

Did Stan give up too much to get Seth Jones? Yes. That 1st round pick in 2022. Ouch!
Did he give Seth too much money? Yes. Maybe $1mil to $1.5mil too much.
Was the MAF an unnecessary gamble? To be determined.

Did we abandon the rebuild? Yes and no. The focus was on acquiring young assets that could be NHL ready for the 2023/24 season and creating cap space for the summer of 2023(after the Toews and Kane contracts were up). Giving up that 2022 first round pick in the Seth Jones deal really hurts. Next year's salary cap is going to be a bear. But the following year (summer of 2023) we only have a total of 4 players at $19.85 mil. In the summer of 2023 Johnson (will be 33 years old) at $5 mil, S. Jones (will be 29) at $9.5 mil, McCabe (will be 29) at $4 mil, and Stillman (will be 25) at $1.35 mil.

picks
2022 - 2nd, three 3rds, 4th, two 6th's, 7th
2023 - 1st, two 2nds, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th

It would be great if Stan could somehow acquire a 1st in 2022. Maybe combining some player and a pick in a package.

It should be interesting to see how the rest of this off season plays out. MAF, deHaan, Strome, Connolly, Carpenter, Shaw's contract.

Would it be worth giving up one of our 3rd round picks (from Toronto or Vegas - not Edmonton's which could turn into a 2nd round pick) in a package with Connolly to free up some cap space?

Because of the health questions of Toews, Nylander, and McCabe I do not really mind keeping Strome and deHaan at least through training camp. They are veterans and would not force us to bring up kids that should be in Rockford. Of course if you can move them for a decent return before then it would be ok too.
- -Doh-

No one knows yet if he gave up too much or paid him too much. Is there no scenario where Jones would live up to not only the trade, but the contract as well? Keith continued to improve into his 30's, as did Seabrook. Different scenario, different team, different scheme, different coaches. Who knows, maybe playing with his brother will do something positive for him (I highly doubt it, but won't completely discount it).

Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to declare that the trade and contract were overpays before he's even on the ice for this team is very premature.

Penguin fans expecting Hawks to retain 50% of Fleury’s cap hit and barely any assets coming back, because we didn’t t give up anything for him. There are three options, that’s it.
1. Fleury plays for Hawks
2. Fleury gets traded, Hawks retain 50%, Hawks get a #1 back, maybe Hawks add a sweetener, nothing special.
3. Fleury retires and Hawks get their $7M back.
- Angotti

#2 could be a sizable deal but either way Stan wins the trade or no trade.

Maybe a 2023 1st and jarry or a 2nd in 2022 and 2nd in 2023 jarry and prospect maybe someting along those lines then maybe move jarry to buffalo or san Jose. Or a third team get involved to eat money and get asset in return.
- Scott1977

If we get a goaltender back from Pitsburgh, I rather it be DeSmith. Both are meh, but DeSmith is only $1.25 and a UFA next year. Jarry is a 2 year commitment at $3.5, which I think would be hard to flip.

If we get a goaltender back from Pitsburgh, I rather it be DeSmith. Both are meh, but DeSmith is only $1.25 and a UFA next year. Jarry is a 2 year commitment at $3.5, which I think would be hard to flip.
- LAHawk

We have a veteran goalie Suban and anything else out there won't be any better and more expensive.

If we get a goaltender back from Pitsburgh, I rather it be DeSmith. Both are meh, but DeSmith is only $1.25 and a UFA next year. Jarry is a 2 year commitment at $3.5, which I think would be hard to flip.
- LAHawk

We don’t need Jarry, Hawks get a #1 back or no deal, however per my previous post, I’m okay adding something or making it a larger deal like rpeters01 mentioned.

I'm curious if there have been recruiting conversations between Jimmy Waite - Cirey Crawford and Fleury

I'd bet Waite and Fleury's paths have crossed in MTL

We don’t need Jarry, Hawks get a #1 back or no deal, however per my previous post I’m okay adding something or making it a larger deal like rpeters01 mentioned.
- Angotti

I agree, was just adding that if we get a sweetner, would rather be DeSmith than Jarry.

We don’t need Jarry, Hawks get a #1 back or no deal, however per my previous post, I’m okay adding something or making it a larger deal like rpeters01 mentioned.
- Angotti

Pitt almost has to turn it into a big trade to muddy it up they didn't get screwed.

Penguin fans expecting Hawks to retain 50% of Fleury’s cap hit and barely any assets coming back, because we didn’t t give up anything for him. There are three options, that’s it.
1. Fleury plays for Hawks
2. Fleury gets traded, Hawks retain 50%, Hawks get a #1 back, maybe Hawks add a sweetener, nothing special.
3. Fleury retires and Hawks get their $7M back.
- Angotti

Why would the Hawks retain any cash at all? If the Pens want him, pay the heck up. If they can't make the money work, it is not the Hawks problem.

Why would the Hawks retain any cash at all? If the Pens want him, pay the heck up. If they can't make the money work, it is not the Hawks problem.
- Chunk

Because they can't make the money work or they would have with Vegas and we want a #1 draft choice.

Why would the Hawks retain any cash at all? If the Pens want him, pay the heck up. If they can't make the money work, it is not the Hawks problem.
- Chunk

Basically you would be buying a mid to late 1st round draft pick for $3.5 mil of cap space for one year. Not a bad deal.

I'd love to see the top 6 start as -
Debrincat - Johnson - Kane

The Team USA line! Johnson is better offensively as he took a lesser role the last few years to win Cups (with Pointe taking a bigger role). But he played a big defensive role under Cooper so Kane gets a 2 way C, that can keep up on the ice and with offensive creativity.

Dach/Kurashev - Toews - Kubilak

Dach and Kurashev are going to both love an learn a ton playing with Toews. I'd like to see either of them play wing this year and put up numbers. Work on getting thier offensive confidence going. Preferably start Dach here. I love Kurashev's game but wouldnt mind him and Reichel in Rockford to start.

But the bottom 6....is everyone else in a pool and battle royale away. Guys like Hagel, Khaira, Connolly who have motors and/or high compete levels are going to push the Strome and Nylander's to show up or out. Gaudette, Carpenter are going to compete like hell. They're at an age and salary where they're next contract is on the line.

I dont know, I think this is a solid situation they are now in - once Jones becoming available and they got him.
- PatShart

You're in the camp, it's a small one and I just started reading the possibility, that Dach should be moved to wing? I am steadfastly against that right now although LA Hawk pointing out that Wheeler successfully did so is food for thought.

Without going into the details of Dach's 2 NHL seasons, we all know them, I think he fits at C this yr. If nothing else move him to 3C if Johnson takes a top 6 center spot and that would most times relieve Dach of other team's top 6 and top 4 pairings. Kid plays a responsible center something you want out of a 3C.

Basically you would be buying a mid to late 1st round draft pick for $3.5 mil of cap space for one year. Not a bad deal.
- -Doh-

I'd say if the Pens want/need him that bad, they can do other things to get their money right and take the whole thing and the Hawks still get the 1st. Otherwise, he either plays for the Hawks or retires. No one has any leverage here other than CHI.

Can't underestimate the cap space opened up by Seabrook and Shaw.
- rpeters01

Didn't they lose cap space by Trading Seabs?

If we get a goaltender back from Pitsburgh, I rather it be DeSmith. Both are meh, but DeSmith is only $1.25 and a UFA next year. Jarry is a 2 year commitment at $3.5, which I think would be hard to flip.
- LAHawk

Only mention jarry because if money 3.5 million would have to come back to make the deal work. If fleury retires hawks get 7 million in cap space but fleury could retire and two months later come out of retirement and sign with pittsburg.

Didn't they lose cap space by Trading Seabs?
- mohel

We get Seabs space now with no LTIR and he saves $350k in taxes is how I understand it? We ate Johnson's $5M. Once Strome is gone the trade could basically wash and we get a better player and something back for Strome. Also we got Seabs off the books.

No one knows yet if he gave up too much or paid him too much. Is there no scenario where Jones would live up to not only the trade, but the contract as well? Keith continued to improve into his 30's, as did Seabrook. Different scenario, different team, different scheme, different coaches. Who knows, maybe playing with his brother will do something positive for him (I highly doubt it, but won't completely discount it).

Obviously, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but to declare that the trade and contract were overpays before he's even on the ice for this team is very premature.
- Chunk

I hear where you are coming from. I look at this like buying a car. You can buy a Porsche Carrera for $100,000 and it could turn out to be a really fantastic car. But if you could have bought it for $90,000 it still was an overpay. Combining what we gave up and the contract length and dollars and the NMC it seems like an overpay (in that most people believe no other team was willing to pay anything close to that in assets and contract). But could we be glad we paid that much a few years from now? Maybe.

You're in the camp, it's a small one and I just started reading the possibility, that Dach should be moved to wing? I am steadfastly against that right now although LA Hawk pointing out that Wheeler successfully did so is food for thought.

Without going into the details of Dach's 2 NHL seasons, we all know them, I think he fits at C this yr. If nothing else move him to 3C if Johnson takes a top 6 center spot and that would most times relieve Dach of other team's top 6 and top 4 pairings. Kid plays a responsible center something you want out of a 3C.
- Mr Ricochet

I think the Haawks will ay him at C between Kane and Debrincat to start

But with them getting Johnson while still having guys like Strome (for now) and Borgstrom - why not put Dach at wing and let him get some confidence. Hasn't played a full season. Hasn't consistently learned how to score.

This may be his first 82 game season. Let him play wing with Toews may help him in the long run

Which I why I think Kursharev to the AHL to start (while I think hes better than Strome) - is best for him now and the Hawks later

Only mention jarry because if money 3.5 million would have to come back to make the deal work. If fleury retires hawks get 7 million in cap space but fleury could retire and two months later come out of retirement and sign with pittsburg.
- Scott1977

No he can't.

No he can't.
- -Doh-

If he does we have the rights.

I hear where you are coming from. I look at this like buying a car. You can buy a Porsche Carrera for $100,000 and it could turn out to be a really fantastic car. But if you could have bought it for $90,000 it still was an overpay. Combining what we gave up and the contract length and dollars and the NMC it seems like an overpay (in that most people believe no other team was willing to pay anything close to that in assets and contract). But could we be glad we paid that much a few years from now? Maybe.
- -Doh-

Considering what Hamilton and Werenski got I would say that there were plenty of teams that would have paid that cash.

I get the argument that the Hawks gave up a ton to get him and I don't really deny that right now. I just take issue with most saying that it definitively was an overpayment regardless of what he does on the ice.

If he ends up what we all hope he will be, I just call it the price of doing business.

Has Strome become to us what Connolly was to the Panthers last year?

Has Strome become to us what Connolly was to the Panthers last year?
- rpeters01

Just a guy?

Has Strome become to us what Connolly was to the Panthers last year?
- rpeters01

Nah. Younger...last year on deal.

Didn't he have his first kid during last season?

May be a bit if a rebound as things return to normal. (Maybe?)

But at his age/contract they could both use him or get something

People have been saying that for a decade. If I was coaching against them I'd have guys lighting them up. But three cups for Kane, a couple more for Johnson, and with Dcat being the sturdiest build of the three, proof is in the puddin. These guys can play.
- 6628

Debrincat is built like a fire hydrant. I almost ran into him (literally) on the lake front trail when he was first drafted. Huge shoulders and no neck which for a 19 year old was pretty impressive.