According to Capfriendly if I am reading it correctly, there's presently no cap space so Shaw on LTIR is a solution but needs to wait until the first day of the season to take advantage. Anyone with a better grasp of the cap, feel free to correct me.

Assuming that's the case, though, then there would need to be a trade or two to ship out some salary. Strome or de Haan could be options. We know for a fact that de Haan is being shopped. No rumors on Strome, though.

There's also trying to move Carpenter or Connelly with the latter granting the most cap space ($500K more than Strome).
- Theo Fox

Theo,

Some good responses from posters on this subject. I wish cap friendly would reflect the 10% increase in cap space in the off season. Though CF currently show the Hawks over the cap, the temporary cap is 89,650,000. This increase stays in effect until the end of training camp. At the moment, the Hawks actually have almost 6,000,000 in cap space.

So why not put Shaw (or Toews) on LTIR? I believe it has to do with banking of cap space (as another poster has mentioned.) When you use LTIR, you can't bank cap. And, if you place a player on LTIR in the offseason, that player must stay on LTIR for at least 10 games or 24 days (something like that) when the season starts. So, a team loses 1/8 of a season worth of possible cap space to bank.

If the Hawks move deHaan, they can keep Shaw on the roster and still have cap space. My guess is that Shaw won't be put on LTIR until the season starts if the team needs the space.

Count me in your camp.
- I Am The Breadman

Count me in your camp

I guess I fall into line as one of those posters, but some opinions were way out there on his play. Toews did have ass linemates for a long time. I liked Hayden, but he is far from a 1st line guy. Panik is not a top line guy either. That list grows as tons of guys were slotted out of position to play with Toews. He also plays in every situation, like Keith did, on bad/bubble teams. It strikes me as fact, not an excuse. They burn out faster. But, here's to hoping for better ...
- I Am The Breadman

Here is the difference and what to look for if a guy seems to be playing bad. Toews was still putting up pretty much the same metrics he always has. They may have been down ever so slightly but were definitely in line with his career numbers. he just wasn't getting rewarded with points.

I'm guessing but have to think if kubalik has another 30 or close to it season i think him and his agent starts at 6 million same with dach if can take that next hugh step and put up 40 to 50 point have to think a bridge deal starts at 3 to 4 million imo.
- Scott1977

Have to think the Hawks will gladly pay a fair rate if they produce. Kubalik has shown he can really shoot and that he can score a bunch if someone is feeding him pucks in shooting areas. If he can keep playing the way he has, 6 mil is really reasonable. He hounds the puck, forechecks and is no pushover in battles. Scored at a 31 goal/per 82 game pace over the 124 games he has played so far. That's about 0.38 Goals per game.

If we look at some other wingers in the NHL at the 5-7 million dollars cap hit, many of them are producing goals near the same rate as Kubalik. (so far)

Elhers - 6 M AAV
Kreider - 6.5 M AAV
E Kane - 7 M AAV
Boeser - 5.9 M AAV
Point 6.8 M AAV
Guentzel - 6 M AAV
Pacioretty - 7 M AAV
Lee - 7M AVV
JVR - 7M AAV

What I like about Kubalik as well, he makes the PP better IMO. He is very dangerous as a shooter and the PK team can't just leave him free to shoot, so it gives the PP a bit more time and space to move the puck.

Here is the difference and what to look for if a guy seems to be playing bad. Toews was still putting up pretty much the same metrics he always has. They may have been down ever so slightly but were definitely in line with his career numbers. he just wasn't getting rewarded with points.
- Elbows15

That's why I said some opinions were out there, or better said exaggerated. I know his numbers were slightly down, but never would call him a bad player.

Here is the difference and what to look for if a guy seems to be playing bad. Toews was still putting up pretty much the same metrics he always has. They may have been down ever so slightly but were definitely in line with his career numbers. he just wasn't getting rewarded with points.
- Elbows15

It was pretty easy to see that Toews was still an effective player IMO. Some metrics were down, points weren't coming, but pretty much everyone else on the team performed better when playing with Toews. Those seasons we had some of the worst depth up front.

I missed that Dennis Gilbert filed for salary arbitration... I don't actually think he played for the Av's last season... so was he saying that their offering a contract was an overpay, and the arbitrator should make the team offer him less???

That's why I said some opinions were out there, or better said exaggerated. I know his numbers were slightly down, but never would call him a bad player.
- I Am The Breadman

During that stretch he did look horrible at times but then went on a few hot streaks. The guy we saw 2019 and the bubble was close to the "normal" Toews.

My point was more so certain posters claiming that Jones is on the decline and can't bounce back....the guy is 27.... here I thought it took d-man more time to develop like say 23-25 to really get going. Guys have bad years. Guys have consecutive bad years.

I missed that Dennis Gilbert filed for salary arbitration... I don't actually think he played for the Av's last season... so was he saying that their offering a contract was an overpay, and the arbitrator should make the team offer him less???
- SC116

According to some he is probably as good or better than Seth Jones.

During that stretch he did look horrible at times but then went on a few hot streaks. The guy we saw 2019 and the bubble was close to the "normal" Toews.

My point was more so certain posters claiming that Jones is on the decline and can't bounce back....the guy is 27.... here I thought it took d-man more time to develop like say 23-25 to really get going. Guys have bad years. Guys have consecutive bad years.
- bhawks2241

I hope he proves me & others wrong, because plenty have a lot of questions about the move.

I hope he proves me & others wrong, because plenty have a lot of questions about the move.
- I Am The Breadman

Well I don't think he forgot how to play hockey and at 26 (or 27) your athleticism is really not in decline. Plus his decline started when? In year 4 of Torts? That about that maximum shelf life for most players under Torts.

Plenty of articles about Torts and his issues with young players (including some where management had to step in). Could it be possible that it was not a great playing environment under Torts and the COVID season did not help either?

Hedman
Slavin
McDonagh
Heiskenen
Chabot. There are 5
- Elbows15

Yea but Faulk is better than Jones that's horse skit, Faulk sucks

Really Brett Pesce?? Would much rather have Seth. I really like Pulock though
- rwilliams88

Yea he's really iffy in his own end Pesce

Well I don't think he forgot how to play hockey and at 26 (or 27) your athleticism is really not in decline. Plus his decline started when? In year 4 of Torts? That about that maximum shelf life for most players under Torts.

Plenty of articles about Torts and his issues with young players (including some where management had to step in). Could it be possible that it was not a great playing environment under Torts and the COVID season did not help either?
- bhawks2241

You and I are confidant that Jones can excel and his reform better when the team and the coaching is better. For most likely the reasons you mentioned, Jones was like stale bread the last two years under Torts. He needs a challenge and he needs support. Which sooner or later he gets in Chicago.

The Aldrich legal battle may cause Bowman to leave but I kind of think McDonough and Rocky will absorb the blow harder than anyone else. They had the major voice but whom knows? And Colliton system ....we'll see how it works out with a couple more veterans but likely kids in forward ranks filtering in

Just wish people could get past the overpay part of the equation. Because teams without at least one heavy player on defense in a top pair will get badly outplayed. Murphy alone falls short in the top pair and heavy categories. What would have been a major flaw without Jones and McCabe - you saw last year and it wasn't going to get much different.

Now because Jones and McCabe are here, Kalynuk and both Stillman and Mitchell will develop better. Although Mitchell might spend time in AHL.

You and I are confidant that Jones can excrl cn reform better when the team and the coaching is better. For most likely the reasons you mentioned, Jones was likerake bread the last two years under Torts. He ends a challenge and he needs support. Which sooner or later he gets in Chicago.

The Aldrich legal battle may cause Bowman to leave but I kind of think McDonough and Ricky will absorb the blow harder than anyone else. They had the major voic but whom knows? And Colliton system ....we'll see how it works out with a couple more veterans but likely kids in forward ranks filtering in

Just wish peoole could get past the overpay part of the equation. Because teams without at least one heavy player on defense will get badly outplayed. That would havebeen the case without Jones and McCabe. And because Jones and McCabe are here, Kalynuk and both Stillman and Mitchell will develop better. Although Mitchell might spend time in AHL.
- jhawk59

I thought Colliton couldn’t coach?

I thought Colliton couldn’t coach?
- paulr

If his system doesn't work better, he will be toast.

What if they put up numbers to warrant being paid that much?
- Elbows15

As long we're dreaming, what if Seth does

If his system doesn't work better, he will be toast.
- jhawk59

But your premise is Jones was playing for a better coach? And if JC gets canned what if the hawks hire Torts? After all Stan isn’t very bright between his naps and potato chip binges.

Sorry, couldn't help putting up something I just read:

Deichmann was a second-round pick by the Athletics in the 2017 MLB Draft, and ranked as the organization's (Athletics) ninth-overall prospect in the farm system entering 2021. Now, he sits as the No. 2 prospect in Chicago's minor league system.

It beats arguing about Jones' defensive abilities and JC's Defensive system, two other dead horses just like the Cubs.

Have to think the Hawks will gladly pay a fair rate if they produce. Kubalik has shown he can really shoot and that he can score a bunch if someone is feeding him pucks in shooting areas. If he can keep playing the way he has, 6 mil is really reasonable. He hounds the puck, forechecks and is no pushover in battles. Scored at a 31 goal/per 82 game pace over the 124 games he has played so far. That's about 0.38 Goals per game.

If we look at some other wingers in the NHL at the 5-7 million dollars cap hit, many of them are producing goals near the same rate as Kubalik. (so far)

Elhers - 6 M AAV
Kreider - 6.5 M AAV
E Kane - 7 M AAV
Boeser - 5.9 M AAV
Point 6.8 M AAV
Guentzel - 6 M AAV
Pacioretty - 7 M AAV
Lee - 7M AVV
JVR - 7M AAV

What I like about Kubalik as well, he makes the PP better IMO. He is very dangerous as a shooter and the PK team can't just leave him free to shoot, so it gives the PP a bit more time and space to move the puck.
- breadbag

For sure! It's not like we're loaded with good Forwards.

Theo,

Some good responses from posters on this subject. I wish cap friendly would reflect the 10% increase in cap space in the off season. Though CF currently show the Hawks over the cap, the temporary cap is 89,650,000. This increase stays in effect until the end of training camp. At the moment, the Hawks actually have almost 6,000,000 in cap space.

So why not put Shaw (or Toews) on LTIR? I believe it has to do with banking of cap space (as another poster has mentioned.) When you use LTIR, you can't bank cap. And, if you place a player on LTIR in the offseason, that player must stay on LTIR for at least 10 games or 24 days (something like that) when the season starts. So, a team loses 1/8 of a season worth of possible cap space to bank.

If the Hawks move deHaan, they can keep Shaw on the roster and still have cap space. My guess is that Shaw won't be put on LTIR until the season starts if the team needs the space.
- Tanuki

Good insights, Tanuki. The banking of cap space helps to understand who and when as it pertains to how to use LTIR.

What you described would then make sense why the Hawks would wait until Day 1 of the NHL regular season to put Shaw on LTIR.

But your premise is Jones was playing for a better coach? And if JC gets canned what if the hawks hire Torts? After all Stan isn’t very bright between his naps and potato chip binges.
- paulr

I love when the average Joe says that an NHL GM isn’t very bright!! Just give an opinion, that I’ll get behind, even if it’s far fetched. But to say Stan bowman isn’t bright..just sounds kind of pathetic, sorry

Stan should have waited out Hagel and forced him to sign for the league minimum or sit for the season. The Hawks had all the leverage yet Stan overpaid in dollars and term yet again. That extra $750,000 will cripple the Hawks going forward. Great job Stan!

#ASF
- DarthKane

Post of the year...so far.

I love when the average Joe says that an NHL GM isn’t very bright!! Just give an opinion, that I’ll get behind, even if it’s far fetched. But to say Stan bowman isn’t bright..just sounds kind of pathetic, sorry
- rwilliams88

Don’t be sorry. If you read over the past few years you’d understand that first, I seldom criticize players, coaches or front office staff and my post was a jab at a number of posters, including the guy I replied to. Second, up until the Jones trade/signing I’ve always given Bowman the benefit of the doubt. Third, my post was pure sarcasm directed at a number of posters who accuse Bowman of being dumb, of getting the job strictly on his Daddy’s coattails, of needing naps like a child, of eating large quantities of potato chips. And my name isn’t Joe, it’s Paul, average or otherwise and I believe you’d be the Direktor.

Post of the year...so far.
- HawkintheD

One more for the DHOF.