He took 378 face offs...
- wiz1901

How many did he take the previous two seasons?

I will save you the time.

66 in 19-20

126 18-19

He is not a center.

how many you want?
- Elbows15

Let's look at it this way. S. Jones is notably better (now) than any defenseman to suit up for the Hawks last year.

The defense as a whole is better than it was last year.

The goaltending is far better than it was last year.

The forwards should be slightly better than last year.

Progess.

It sucks for him, but his agent should have prepped/warned him for these kind of situations. Especially with the static cap, I would guess that a lot of unconventional deals will happen. Hopefully, he is able to continue progressing. I would guess he could always go back overseas as well.
- Chunk

I really don't understand. Vegas says they're limited by the number of contracts they can have, BUT he is their contract in Chicago's organization. Then why isn't he playing for Vegas' AHL team?

My guess is both Kubalik and Dach's number are too low.
- Elbows15

So are the three defense men wishful thinking if they're in the league another year. Lankinen will be closer to $3.5-4.5 if he's a/our #1 Goalie. He'll be a UFA.

I really don't understand. Vegas says they're limited by the number of contracts they can have, BUT he is their contract in Chicago's organization. Then why isn't he playing for Vegas' AHL team?
- rpeters01

You misread it. Vegas took the contract to open a spot for the Hawks as a favor for taking MAF off their hands.

As for the kid? It puts him in a pretty poopty situation for his career/development.

Let's look at it this way. S. Jones is notably better (now) than any defenseman to suit up for the Hawks last year.

The defense as a whole is better than it was last year.

The goaltending is far better than it was last year.

The forwards should be slightly better than last year.

Progess.
- Chunk

We will see.

You misread it. Vegas took the contract to open a spot for the Hawks as a favor for taking MAF off their hands.

As for the kid? It puts him in a pretty poopty situation for his career/development.
- Elbows15

Got it. So Vegas simply doesn't want him he's not good enough for them? If so, happens every day in the real world time to try doing something else or live with it...

I really don't understand. Vegas says they're limited by the number of contracts they can have, BUT he is their contract in Chicago's organization. Then why isn't he playing for Vegas' AHL team?
- rpeters01

Hence why I asked the question, but most of the responses were "he's nobody" which is not what I was trying to find out.

We will see.
- Elbows15

What part of what I said is in question for you?

He took 378 face offs...
- wiz1901

Landeskog took over 500 on Mackinnon's line and he certainly wasn't the center. He's just good at it.

It looks like the Oilers are re-signing Nurse for 8 years @ $9.25 million AAV. Hamilton signed for $9 million. Both are better than Jones and signed for significantly less. #ASF.
- DarthKane

I like Nurse, but I wouldn’t put Hamilton above Jones. Jones is also a better fit with the hawks IMO

What part of what I said is in question for you?
- Chunk

Everything except goaltending being better. I am not sure this forward group can play this system. They are still a bit slow up front and defensively they just are going to struggle to generate any offense at all.


I see the PP being bad. The PK might better with Toews and Dach back but after them, who are the forwards? Carpenter sucks at it. The scheme is terrible which makes one forward have to try to cover the whole top of the ice. Unless they get better denying passes through the box, it will be a suckfest again.

I know most are thrilled with the moves but I still don't see a playoff team. Course, much is to decided yet in terms of what roster goes into the season.

Based on metrics, Keith and Jones performed at the same levels last season. I would post the charts again but ...

How many did he take the previous two seasons?

I will save you the time.

66 in 19-20

126 18-19

He is not a center.
- Elbows15

I think by the information you are providing some people might conclude he was a winger, but he is a center now. Maybe some players break into the NHL as wingers and then convert to the center position.

Everything except goaltending being better. I am not sure this forward group can play this system. They are still a bit slow up front and defensively they just are going to struggle to generate any offense at all.


I see the PP being bad. The PK might better with Toews and Dach back but after them, who are the forwards? Carpenter sucks at it. The scheme is terrible which makes one forward have to try to cover the whole top of the ice. Unless they get better denying passes through the box, it will be a suckfest again.

I know most are thrilled with the moves but I still don't see a playoff team. Course, much is to decided yet in terms of what roster goes into the season.

Based on metrics, Keith and Jones performed at the same levels last season. I would post the charts again but ...
- Elbows15

You don't think goal tending is better than last year?

I like Nurse, but I wouldn’t put Hamilton above Jones. Jones is also a better fit with the hawks IMO
- rwilliams88

You have to consider the source Darth is not usually serious. The clue was "significantly less money" where I think all are within $1m of each other.

How many D-men in the league are better than S. Jones?
- rpeters01

It doesn’t matter. This isn’t the NBA. One player cannot completely turn a team around. He could win the Norris the next 3 years, and it will still have been the wrong move at the wrong time. Not enough pieces in place, and now fewer resources available to get those pieces. Teams, winning teams anyway, are built through the draft.

You have to consider the source Darth is not usually serious. The clue was "significantly less money" where I think all are within $1m of each other.
- rpeters01

No, I agreed the goaltending is better. Everything else is in question. In theory they should be better defensively but I blame a large part of their defensive problems on the forwards. Dach and Toews(if he plays) should help that but that wing group is still iffy to me.

On performance, Jones and Keith were equal last season. No one want to read that, tho.

Everything except goaltending being better. I am not sure this forward group can play this system. They are still a bit slow up front and defensively they just are going to struggle to generate any offense at all.


I see the PP being bad. The PK might better with Toews and Dach back but after them, who are the forwards? Carpenter sucks at it. The scheme is terrible which makes one forward have to try to cover the whole top of the ice. Unless they get better denying passes through the box, it will be a suckfest again.

I know most are thrilled with the moves but I still don't see a playoff team. Course, much is to decided yet in terms of what roster goes into the season.

Based on metrics, Keith and Jones performed at the same levels last season. I would post the charts again but ...
- Elbows15

You see most things being bad, no?

ADB played pretty well with Dach on the PK last year. Khaira had the third highest TOI on the PK last year for EDM and only 7 GA. Hagel will likely get time, and possibly Connolly.

The defense can't be much worse at generating offense than they were last year (21G, 68A total). I personally think, at a minimum, they will have less turnovers which should cut down on SA and theoretically lead to more offense.

I'm not "thrilled" with the moves, but I see a much better on ice product (on paper at least) than what they had last year.

You don't think goal tending is better than last year?
- BetweenTheDots

Marginally, but at more than twice the cost. Those cap dollars could be better spent elsewhere.

Edit*. Make that 4 times the cost

It doesn’t matter. This isn’t the NBA. One player cannot completely turn a team around. He could win the Norris the next 3 years, and it will still have been the wrong move at the wrong time. Not enough pieces in place, and now fewer resources available to get those pieces.
- Ogilthorpe2

I can name 10 RHD better without much effort, FTR.

You see most things being bad, no?

ADB played pretty well with Dach on the PK last year. Khaira had the third highest TOI on the PK last year for EDM and only 7 GA. Hagel will likely get time, and possibly Connolly.

The defense can't be much worse at generating offense than they were last year (21G, 68A total). I personally think, at a minimum, they will have less turnovers which should cut down on SA and theoretically lead to more offense.

I'm not "thrilled" with the moves, but I see a much better on ice product (on paper at least) than what they had last year.
- Chunk

I actually don't. I am just realistic about this team.

You see most things being bad, no?

ADB played pretty well with Dach on the PK last year. Khaira had the third highest TOI on the PK last year for EDM and only 7 GA. Hagel will likely get time, and possibly Connolly.

The defense can't be much worse at generating offense than they were last year (21G, 68A total). I personally think, at a minimum, they will have less turnovers which should cut down on SA and theoretically lead to more offense.

I'm not "thrilled" with the moves, but I see a much better on ice product (on paper at least) than what they had last year.
- Chunk

Yup. Just enough better to improve from poor to mediocre. That’ll show ‘em!

No, I agreed the goaltending is better. Everything else is in question. In theory they should be better defensively but I blame a large part of their defensive problems on the forwards. Dach and Toews(if he plays) should help that but that wing group is still iffy to me.

On performance, Jones and Keith were equal last season. No one want to read that, tho.
- Elbows15

I agree with this statement, but I think it is presumptuous to say that Jones will remain that way. I'm fully willing to eat my words, but I would take the over on S. Jones for at least the next 5 years.

I also agree that the Hawks gave up a lot to get him. I would have preferred to leave it at Boqvist and switching first rounders this year. The Hawks have three other players with a similar skillset to Boqvist in the system, and I personally don't think you can have too many of those type of D-men and still be overly effective. The 1st next year is steep, but I'm less concerned about it overall.

I agree with this statement, but I think it is presumptuous to say that Jones will remain that way. I'm fully willing to eat my words, but I would take the over on S. Jones for at least the next 5 years.

I also agree that the Hawks gave up a lot to get him. I would have preferred to leave it at Boqvist and switching first rounders this year. The Hawks have three other players with a similar skillset to Boqvist in the system, and I personally don't think you can have too many of those type of D-men and still be overly effective. The 1st next year is steep, but I'm less concerned about it overall.
- Chunk

I think it is presumptuous to think he will break a 3 year trend, too. For the sake of being a fan of the Hawks, I sure the (frank) hope he does.

The reality, once again as shown by the numbers, is Jones has never been elite be any impartial measures. The hope he magically becomes elite is a fool's errand.

He is never going to live up to his contract. He is not nor ever has been worth being one of the top 5 paid D-men. He looks the part but his performance has never equaled it.

Best we can hope for is him to not totally suck like he did last season and being mediocre the season before.

Yup. Just enough better to improve from poor to mediocre. That’ll show ‘em!
- Ogilthorpe2

How much better can they get in one offseason? A ton of players got a lot of experience last year. Most of them likely won't see much NHL ice time this year unless there is an injury. According to most here, that is a good thing for their development (which I am happy about).

Stan had to still ice a team. He did Keith a solid sending him closer to his kid and got a larger D prospect than many in the system that can play now instead of 2-3 years from now. He also traded for one of the better overall D-men who was actually available. I'm well aware of your feelings on the trade and we'll have to agree to disagree here.

He notably improved the goaltending (for one year) which will allow them to be more competitive overall and still allow Lankinen to progress without burning him out.

I personally see a decent forward group (especially if both Toews and Dach are fully healthy, although I'm not holding my breath on the former). They have scoring wings. some more size, and competition for spots on most of the lines. Is it great? No, but it's better than they were. Chasing a high draft pick is not a good plan in my book.