He's just taking revenge on that one great soccer player who's been open about hating him.

Typical classless Donald.
- Scabeh

Speaking of classless:

https://www.usatoday.com/...al-clown-show/5494410001/

If we are talking about Kane and the gambling allegations, I agree with your bolded statement 100%.

If we are talking about the current allegations against the Chicago hockey team, oh boy, I disagree.
- Atomic Wedgie

I guess we're 50/50 then. I mean it for both.

If Stan Bowman interceded and used his influence to stop someone from going to the police to report a crime, then it's more than just a criminal matter from the league's perspective. Doing nothing can come back to hurt them.

Cool. That makes it a good pairing for the $
- Canada Cup

Until muzzin gets injured and we're stuck with garbage holl

If Nurse = $9.25mm, then Reilly is GONE.
- .HOHO.

yes sir, he gone

I guess we're 50/50 then. I mean it for both.

If Stan Bowman interceded and used his influence to stop someone from going to the police to report a crime, then it's more than just a criminal matter from the league's perspective. Doing nothing can come back to hurt them.
- Monkeypunk

Just so I'm clear here:

If Bowman did that, I hope he goes to prison.

I just disagree with your statement that the other leagues would have dealt with it better.

They all want stuff like this to just go away quietly.

What is false in this statement? Neither Canada nor Sweden had a purple haired player.
- AdamFrench

Why does anyone care what that useless facker has to say.

These right wing "patriotic" americans and nowhere near patriotic

Just so I'm clear here:

If Bowman did that, I hope he goes to prison.

I just disagree with your statement that the other leagues would have dealt with it better.

They all want stuff like this to just go away quietly.
- Atomic Wedgie

Okay. That's not a hill I'm willing to die on, so you're probably right about that. I sort of feel that the MLB, NBA and NFL have been doing a better job of getting out in front of cases where the players are involved, so I was perhaps giving them indirect credit.

Why does anyone care what that useless facker has to say.

These right wing "patriotic" americans and nowhere near patriotic
- Fakepartofme

Ask Wedgie? Major Left Wing man?

I don’t believe the Leafs have the 7th best defense in the league through an 82 game regular season and I don’t think I’m alone there.
- RickJames77

Two things about this

1) many are sceptical about Leafs defense because they played in the make shift North Division last season. I understand this logic

2) Defensive stats are strongly tied to goaltending as clearly illustrated by Vegas' numbers and MAF having a great season. While Campbell was a very pleasant surprise, Andersen shat the bed more often than not. The other cause for optimism would be the three games in Edmonton where the Leafs allowed only one goal. Holding McDavid off the scoresheet for three straight home games is pretty impressive. The single goal that the Leafs allowed in those back to back to back home games in Edmonton was a late game softie allowed by Andersen, otherwise oilers would have been shut out three straight at home.

Well, that was part of my point in saying Dubas will know what it takes to sign him and can make that decision with that information that we don’t have. I do wonder, however, if he’ll hang onto him regardless to try and save his job. He can’t have a dual mandate of winning and retooling, which is what trading his #1 defenseman would be IMO. I don’t think Shanahan is going to want to wait a few years while he sorts out the backend.
- RickJames77

Here's the thing for me:

If Dubas and Rielly's agent are not in discussions, he should be fired. We all do business is some way or another and we know this would be standard in this situation to have some sort of a gauge as to where it's going.

If Rielly and his agent are holding out until later next year to start discussions, and Dubas knows this, then the agent is playing Dubas until the agent has the leverage he needs for a deal we just can't afford unless one of Mitch, Matthews, Nylander or Tavares is going away at some point.

Dubas should know details, we don't obviously, but for me the indicators should be there now for Dubas to make a decision and subsequent move.

Not sure if I'm wrong but, if Rielly wants Nurse money now and is up front about it or Dubas has that info from his agent then, at the very least, you sign him to that deal and trade him or one of the Big 4 next offseason.

At least you're retaining power and in a position to get assets back one way or the other. It's not that complicated unless someone is being played by someone better at negotiating.

Here's the thing for me:

If Dubas and Rielly's agent are not in discussions, he should be fired. We all do business is some way or another and we know this would be standard in this situation to have some sort of a gauge as to where it's going.

If Rielly and his agent are holding out until later next year to start discussions, and Dubas knows this, then the agent is playing Dubas until the agent has the leverage he needs for a deal we just can't afford unless one of Mitch, Matthews, Nylander or Tavares is going away at some point.

Dubas should know details, we don't obviously, but for me the indicators should be there now for Dubas to make a decision and subsequent move.

Not sure if I'm wrong but, if Rielly wants Nurse money now and is up front about it or Dubas has that info from his agent then, at the very least, you sign him to that deal and trade him or one of the Big 4 next offseason.

At least you're retaining power and in a position to get assets back one way or the other. It's not that complicated unless someone is being played by someone better at negotiating.
- underhill14

Rielly is signing for 81.5Mx8.

It's a bargain considering the cap will be going up 1M in 22/23.

There’s is a time, though when you say (frank) it and go for it. Is this the time for the Leafs to do that? I see that you think not and I’d probably agree with that.

Unless Dubas pulls off a hockey trade with Rielly, he’s as good as gone. Deals like that are tough and I bet Dubas holds onto him either way and “goes with his core group for better or worse”.
- RickJames77

I suspect that you are correct here... Dubas... because he's painted himself into a corner with CAP can't bring himself to decide what to do with Rielly... right now.. and he loses any and all bargaining chips the further this progresses into the upcoming season.

That Nurse money is completely insane (from my perspective)... I thought the Hamilton contract was an overpayment... by about 1M ... Nurse's contract is bonkers (again just my opinion).

Here's the thing for me:

If Dubas and Rielly's agent are not in discussions, he should be fired. We all do business is some way or another and we know this would be standard in this situation to have some sort of a gauge as to where it's going.

If Rielly and his agent are holding out until later next year to start discussions, and Dubas knows this, then the agent is playing Dubas until the agent has the leverage he needs for a deal we just can't afford unless one of Mitch, Matthews, Nylander or Tavares is going away at some point.

Dubas should know details, we don't obviously, but for me the indicators should be there now for Dubas to make a decision and subsequent move.

Not sure if I'm wrong but, if Rielly wants Nurse money now and is up front about it or Dubas has that info from his agent then, at the very least, you sign him to that deal and trade him or one of the Big 4 next offseason.

At least you're retaining power and in a position to get assets back one way or the other. It's not that complicated unless someone is being played by someone better at negotiating.
- underhill14

frankly this is what worries/bothers me most with Dubas.... he is completely crap when it comes to these contracts and the negotiations. By his own admission he messed up Nylander's negotiation... he's overpaid and under-termed Matthews and Marner. Even smaller deals - such as Dermott - were an overpayment.

If he(Dubas) was thinking he was going to get Rielly done for Current Rielly money + Kessel buyout remainder that seems to have gone up in the air.

frankly this is what worries/bothers me most with Dubas.... he is completely crap when it comes to these contracts and the negotiations. By his own admission he messed up Nylander's negotiation... he's overpaid and under-termed Matthews and Marner. Even smaller deals - such as Dermott - were an overpayment.

If he(Dubas) was thinking he was going to get Rielly done for Current Rielly money + Kessel buyout remainder that seems to have gone up in the air.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Nylander played every card he could to try to get a bigger number than 7M. There's nothing Dubas could do but wait him out. Now that deal looks quite good and it's hard to complain that he's overpaid.

Matthews and Snakevares both got deals that were fair market value.

Marner is the mega-problem. A playmaking winger should not be earning anywhere near 10.9M. He's overpaid by 1.5-2M which is horrific considering the flat cap.

I'd rather spend that 10.9M bolstering our defence and adding a Top 6 winger or legit 3C.

Nylander played every card he could to try to get a bigger number than 7M. There's nothing Dubas could do but wait him out. Now that deal looks quite good and it's hard to complain that he's overpaid.

Matthews and Snakevares both got deals that were fair market value.

Marner is the mega-problem. A playmaking winger should not be earning anywhere near 10.9M. He's overpaid by 1.5-2M which is horrific considering the flat cap.

I'd rather spend that 10.9M bolstering our defence and adding a Top 6 winger or legit 3C.
- mjones242

The Marner hate is so pathetic, man.

Get off Willys dïck already.

The Marner hate is so pathetic, man.

Get off Willys dïck ready.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I don't hate Marner. I hate his contract.

Nylander has played up to his contract. No complaints. He also showed up this past playoff.

*ahem*

The Willie hate is so pathetic man.

I don't hate Marner. I hate his contract.

Nylander has played up to his contract. No complaints. He also showed up this past playoff.

*ahem*

The Willie hate is so pathetic man.
- mjones242

Leafs wouldn’t even make the playoffs without Marner. Leafs drafted a local boy who leads them in scoring every year for the first time in probably forever. And this is the respect he gets? It really is disgusting.

The team wasn’t built properly to succeed in the playoffs. That’s not Mitch’s fault. The Habs shut down that top line, they couldn’t break out.

Just support your team and stop this ridiculous love affair with one player.

Leafs wouldn’t even make the playoffs without Marner. Leafs drafted a local boy who leads them in scoring every year for the first time in probably forever. And this is the respect he gets? It really is disgusting.

The team wasn’t built properly to succeed in the playoffs. That’s not Mitch’s fault. The Habs shut down that top line, they couldn’t break out.

Just support your team and stop this ridiculous love affair with one player.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I'm not debating whether Marner is a major contributor to the success of the regular season Leafs or not. Of course, he is!

But his salary is (frank)ing retarded. There is no sane comparable for a playmaking winger coming out of ELC let alone - at this moment - making 10.9M. It's an obscene contract that was built on egotism. He should not be making near AM34 money. He shouldn't be making more than Patrick Kane - a player who has won actual Cups.

Mitch hasn't scored in 18 straight playoff games. That's pretty (frank)ing telling. He does not know how to translate his elite game during the post-season when hockey tightens up and obstruction/interference goes unpunished.

Blaming the rest of the team and its construction for his lack of playoff success seems a bit of a stretch to me. He's playing with a generational goal scoring machine and he can't find the back of the net while Matthews has players draped all over him? Come on.

As per the "love affair" for one player, are you referring to Willie? Since when have I been a Nylander fanboy? I don't love him but I'm willing to admit that his salary seems on point and he delivered unlike AM34 or Mitch in the playoffs this year. He is NOT the problem. He's a complementary player who has delivered what should be expected for his salary and position.

If Mitch was making 8.5-9M a season I would be far less critical. But hey, if he was making 2-2.5M less than he is now that would mean the team could afford better secondary pieces to help drive this team.

It's as simple as that. If he's earning 10.9M he should be performing at a much higher level.

He's not. I don't give a (frank) if he's a local boy or not. He didn't take a home town bridge deal or discount, so until he shows he's capable of rising to the occasion and putting this team on his back, I will ride him for his ridiculous, overpaid contract.

I'm not debating whether Marner is a major contributor to the success of the regular season Leafs or not. Of course, he is!

But his salary is (frank)ing retarded. There is no sane comparable for a playmaking winger coming out of ELC let alone - at this moment - making 10.9M. It's an obscene contract that was built on egotism. He should not be making near AM34 money. He shouldn't be making more than Patrick Kane - a player who has won actual Cups.

Mitch hasn't scored in 18 straight playoff games. That's pretty (frank)ing telling. He does not know how to translate his elite game during the post-season when hockey tightens up and obstruction/interference goes unpunished.

Blaming the rest of the team and its construction for his lack of playoff success seems a bit of a stretch to me. He's playing with a generational goal scoring machine and he can't find the back of the net while Matthews has players draped all over him? Come on.

As per the "love affair" for one player, are you referring to Willie? Since when have I been a Nylander fanboy? I don't love him but I'm willing to admit that his salary seems on point and he delivered unlike AM34 or Mitch in the playoffs this year. He is NOT the problem. He's a complementary player who has delivered what should be expected for his salary and position.

If Mitch was making 8.5-9M a season I would be far less critical. But hey, if he was making 2-2.5M less than he is now that would mean the team could afford better secondary pieces to help drive this team.

It's as simple as that. If he's earning 10.9M he should be performing at a much higher level.

He's not. I don't give a (frank) if he's a local boy or not. He didn't take a home town bridge deal or discount, so until he shows he's capable of rising to the occasion and putting this team on his back, I will ride him for his ridiculous, overpaid contract.
- mjones242

All fair enough. Tavares is even more overpaid than Mitch. This was the first year IMO that Willy lived up to his contract, he seems to be maturing a bit. But it doesn’t change the fact that the Leafs are paying a premium for him that would be better spent elsewhere. Idk how much a 95pt PKing winger is supposed to make, but it’s not far off. Marner is a few 100pt seasons away from Kane’s reputation, a couple cups would go a long way too. But these teams that win always have solid lockdown defence. Can’t win in the playoffs without that. Brodie and Muzzin are good, but idk if they can get it done. Leafs are in a real pickle with Rielly. They HAVE to try to get him signed ASAP. I’m not saying this to get people riled up, but I firmly believe they have to cut Nylander loose to make room for Mo. They just don’t need his offence, and they could badly use a up-and-coming partner for Sandin. A Byram/Drysdale/Seider type..

Hope so.

They could sign him to an 8yr deal this summer and trade him next summer before his Cap hits the books just as long as its not a "hand hold to UFA" situation like Hyman, Andersen,.....

I like Rielly. He's been good for the Leafs. But, I also think if he can't agree to a deal that works with the Leafs Cap issues this summer then he has great trade value that this team shouldn't lose out on. TDL will be less. Next summer will be none.

Replacing Rielly is one thing, replacing the value of Rielly in a trade with NOTHING because he's allowed to walk off to UFA sunset is something else.
- underhill14

No, they can't. If teams know the Leafs are right up against the cap, do you think they are doing the Leafs any favours and providing value in that trade? They know Toronto has to unload a salary out of necessity so this would be a bad move from the standpoint of getting maximum value for Rielly.

I'm really curious to know the discount he is willing to take to resign. Is it 6-6.5? Or is it 8? I am thinking it's around the latter. If so, trade him.

I see lots of comments on here about firing Dubas if he gets nothing for Rielly. As much as I think this should happen, I honestly don't think he would trade his best D when he is already on the hot seat. "To save the team from losing nothing for him, I'll shoot myself in the foot and trade him to set us up for next year and the future". I don't think Dubas is worried about the year after next. His job is on the line.

Anyway, Muzzin is the best defenseman on this team. He makes Holl look good.




Shots fired....
- bobbyisno1

I love Jake, but I would argue Brodie is better than Muzzin

No, they can't. If teams know the Leafs are right up against the cap, do you think they are doing the Leafs any favours and providing value in that trade? They know Toronto has to unload a salary out of necessity so this would be a bad move from the standpoint of getting maximum value for Rielly.

I'm really curious to know the discount he is willing to take to resign. Is it 6-6.5? Or is it 8? I am thinking it's around the latter. If so, trade him.

I see lots of comments on here about firing Dubas if he gets nothing for Rielly. As much as I think this should happen, I honestly don't think he would trade his best D when he is already on the hot seat. "To save the team from losing nothing for him, I'll shoot myself in the foot and trade him to set us up for next year and the future". I don't think Dubas is worried about the year after next. His job is on the line.
- PhilMcCracken

Agreed with this. If the Leafs don't make a deep run this year he's done.

So yes, I agree with the premise that Rielly rides out his contract for this season. There's simply too much risk at this point in trading him unless there's an insane hockey deal to be made somewhere that brings back another stud defender. (e.g. Chychrun) But let's be honest, there's virtually zero chance of that happening.

Don't disagree, he was still the top dman on a bad team and a -14 player. He will be 32 in December and officially is on the back nine of his hockey playing career. He has 6 more years at $11 million getting paid for what he used to do. It's not reasonable to expect him to be a top dman at 35 and beyond.
- winsix

It's not a good contract, but you can't lump Doughty, still capable of playing like a number 1, in with Karlsson, who isn't really NHL caliber anymore.

They should be scapegoated though, you just can't say maybe next time every time.
- bobbyisno1

Rielly is a solid number 1. It's hot his fault he's not Norris caliber. If he's not Norris caliber, and you need that to win, it's the GMs fault for not getting one.

This year is the first year you could say the Leafs had a good enough D to get the job done. They didn't get the job done, but the D isn't really a glaring issue anymore. In years past, the D assembled was not going to win a cup. No chance.