Location: Living rent free... in your head, ON Joined: 09.20.2010
Sep 13 @ 7:44 PM ET
He wants money more than he cares about being in Toronto, he made that clear when he sat into camp. He would have continued to sit if the offer didn't go above 10.5 per.
For someone who's from Toronto, the idea he leveraged the organization for as much money possible should be more of a concern than the idea that a player is from Arizona. - joel878
He got screwed out of a bonus in his previous contract. So he wanted.
Im more concerned with the duby caving in.
But its old news, we know why he did it.
I believe its for tax reasons, they get taxed less for bonuses. - Fakepartofme
From what I have understood, the leafs do it just as a method of flexing their financial might. They front load, and contracts become more appealing down the line should they want to move them.
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high Joined: 09.15.2010
Sep 13 @ 7:53 PM ET
You're being serious?? - 21peter
Oh (frank) no not at all….. hence the winking emoji
Sorry if you didn’t catch it as a joke cause trust me… seizing sucks a lot, I was so routinely coming to in ambulances that I actually got to the point where I was mostly annoyed by the $45 I got charged each time. Post surgery I’ve been far better tho.
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high Joined: 09.15.2010
Sep 13 @ 7:54 PM ET
I believe its for tax reasons, they get taxed less for bonuses. - Fakepartofme
Someone was talking about taxation a few days back…. Players have different taxation’s depending where they live. So I guess a summer bonus would be a huge difference.
He got screwed out of a bonus in his previous contract. So he wanted.
Im more concerned with the duby caving in.
But its old news, we know why he did it. - Fakepartofme
Im concerned on both fronts, but I understand Dubas' position more.
He had just made quite the shift from Kadri to Barrie, and believed he had a team that would go deep for the first time. After the Nylander fiasco, allowing Marner to sit next would have been a massive problem for him. Every fan or individual with a microphone would have had his head in a guillotine for destroying the season by letting one of their star players sit.
Marner needing every penny to play for his hometown NHL team is more concerning to me. Even at 9-10 million, you're still earning over 50 million dollars before the age of 27 before even touching a penny of endorsement dollars. How much money does one need? The leafs were willing to make him rich forever and you still have to fight for money?
From what I have understood, the leafs do it just as a method of flexing their financial might. They front load, and contracts become more appealing down the line should they want to move them.
I'm not sure if there's a tax advantage. - joel878
There is for Matthews. Not so much for Marner. (Assuming Matthews claims residence in Arizona and Marner residence in Ontario)
Oh (frank) no not at all….. hence the winking emoji
Sorry if you didn’t catch it as a joke cause trust me… seizing sucks a lot, I was so routinely coming to in ambulances that I actually got to the point where I was mostly annoyed by the $45 I got charged each time. Post surgery I’ve been far better tho. - Dozzer
Well (frank) me, Dozzer
Didn't catch that
Been a lot of political pizza and red wine over here. Make that red wine x2.5.
Just listened to one of my great 'memory' songs:
Location: God Leafs Satan The Oneness, ON Joined: 02.28.2011
Sep 13 @ 8:02 PM ET
From what I have understood, the leafs do it just as a method of flexing their financial might. They front load, and contracts become more appealing down the line should they want to move them.
I'm not sure if there's a tax advantage. - joel878
If I recall, there's a big advantage for players who live outside of Canada in the offseason from front-loading, which MLSE can use their financial heft to exploit.
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON Joined: 02.12.2013
Sep 13 @ 8:04 PM ET
Im concerned on both fronts, but I understand Dubas' position more.
He had just made quite the shift from Kadri to Barrie, and believed he had a team that would go deep for the first time. After the Nylander fiasco, allowing Marner to sit next would have been a massive problem for him. Every fan or individual with a microphone would have had his head in a guillotine for destroying the season by letting one of their star players sit.
Marner needing every penny to play for his hometown NHL team is more concerning to me. Even at 9-10 million, you're still earning over 50 million dollars before the age of 27 before even touching a penny of endorsement dollars. How much money does one need? The leafs were willing to make him rich forever and you still have to fight for money? - joel878
My biggest issue with Dubas is his unwillingness to adjust as circumstances change. Yes, he assumed a rising cap when he put this salary structure in place. However, it has been clear for almost 2 years now that the salary cap will be flat for some time due to the pandemic.
Yet Dubas has remained unwilling to alter his salary cap structure despite the flat cap. Consequently he has simply been unable to build a balanced roster with 4 forwards making 40 M. Again this summer, its a bunch of guys out,some guys in. We might have even got weaker in the process. The hope, or expectation is that if 4 guys perform in the playoffs, the Leafs will succeed. That is a ridiculous plan. 4 guys are not going to get it done.
There is for Matthews. Not so much for Marner. (Assuming Matthews claims residence in Arizona and Marner residence in Ontario) - Leafs43
Thanks for clearing that up.
So what's the draw to sign a player like Kerfoot to a front loaded contract? Muzzin has some fairly heavy bonuses as well. Both are Canadian, they live in the states? 🤔
So what's the draw to sign a player like Kerfoot to a front loaded contract? Muzzin has some fairly heavy bonuses as well. Both are Canadian, they live in the states? 🤔 - joel878
Bonus laden contracts were all the rage before Covid because they are "lockout proof". The bonus is apparently paid regardless of whether there is a lockout or not.
It is also beneficial to receive a big payment in July. You get the income many months sooner, and can invest it to grow that much quicker.
I think a lot of the Leaf contracts were big bonus laden because it makes the contract easier to trade. If Muzzin decides he sucks one of these years - the Leafs can ship him to Arizona and Arizona won't have to pay big $$$.
They could be playing tax games as well - But I think it would be hard for them to argue they are residents of the US unless they spend more time there than I thought.
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high Joined: 09.15.2010
Sep 13 @ 8:15 PM ET
Well (frank) me, Dozzer
Didn't catch that
Been a lot of political pizza and red wine over here. Make that red wine x2.5.
Just listened to one of my great 'memory' songs:
- 21peter
Of course you post this, the band I had to leave when stage lighting was starting to bug me too much was called the Gypsy Ghosts so nice choice in the song lol
Bonus laden contracts were all the rage before Covid because they are "lockout proof". The bonus is apparently paid regardless of whether there is a lockout or not.
It is also beneficial to receive a big payment in July. You get the income many months sooner, and can invest it to grow that much quicker.
I think a lot of the Leaf contracts were big bonus laden because it makes the contract easier to trade. If Muzzin decides he sucks one of these years - the Leafs can ship him to Arizona and Arizona won't have to pay big $$$.
They could be playing tax games as well - But I think it would be hard for them to argue they are residents of the US unless they spend more time there than I thought. - Leafs43
Just to touch on your first point. The reason it's anti lockout is because technically the season is going to happen during the off season. They aren't locked out until the season starts so even if they went the entire season again the off season doesn't count as being locked out since they don't play then anyway.
Oh? So the players wanted this so the owners will have already poured out the money so they wouldn’t ever lock them out? - Dozzer
Players won't lose their income if there was a lock out. O-Dog talks about it on TSN sometimes how he lost 4 million without that season and how the lockout ended up being just a bad idea. Considering they still ended up with a salary cap. He talks of some stories like I believe Ference? (Can't remember the player) would stand up and say "we should discuss what a league with a cap looks like to be prepared" and he would be yelled at and told to sit down and how "it would never happen". The guy was right. Players should have been looking at all angles.
Of course you post this, the band I had to leave when stage lighting was starting to bug me too much was called the Gypsy Ghosts so nice choice in the song lol - Dozzer
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high Joined: 09.15.2010
Sep 13 @ 8:29 PM ET
Players won't lose their income if there was a lock out. O-Dog talks about it on TSN sometimes how he lost 4 million without that season and how the lockout ended up being just a bad idea. Considering they still ended up with a salary cap. He talks of some stories like I believe Ference? (Can't remember the player) would stand up and say "we should discuss what a league with a cap looks like to be prepared" and he would be yelled at and told to sit down and how "it would never happen". The guy was right. Players should have been looking at all angles. - Aaron_85
He totally was. It makes sense to me now. The teams won’t be saving a lot just to shut things down post off season payments
My biggest issue with Dubas is his unwillingness to adjust as circumstances change. Yes, he assumed a rising cap when he put this salary structure in place. However, it has been clear for almost 2 years now that the salary cap will be flat for some time due to the pandemic.
Yet Dubas has remained unwilling to alter his salary cap structure despite the flat cap. Consequently he has simply been unable to build a balanced roster with 4 forwards making 40 M. Again this summer, its a bunch of guys out,some guys in. We might have even got weaker in the process. The hope, or expectation is that if 4 guys perform in the playoffs, the Leafs will succeed. That is a ridiculous plan. 4 guys are not going to get it done.
TEAMS win Cups. - fifty__missions
Jon copper did an interview with spittin chicklets and it was really good. He talks about the year they were swept against Columbus after 60+ win season. He said kucherov had to be better in playoffs and he had to be better but he zeroed in on him and kucherov.
It sounded like kucherov had a bit of marner demons in him but because the market wasn’t Toronto it wasn’t talked about as much.
Long story short he said Pete Deboer pulled him aside at the draft and told him don’t let a bad week ruin a great year because they went from presidents cup winner to out of the playoffs in 6 days.
The next year at the draft they acquired depth because they had the talent up front and have gone on to win 2 straight cups.
