reading the comments in the sportsnet section of a Luke fox article and people are saying Florida is wayyy better than Toronto.

people saying leafs have no depth etc

what am I missing?

their 3rd and 4th lines aren't much better than ours and our dmen look far superior...

confused.

not saying the leafs are the better team but I don't see what makes the panthers the hands down favorite
- systemtool

The Leafs make the world go round. They're obsessed. Bathe in the love Toolsie.

Don’t be too sold on Matthews, I’m convinced he’ll taper off a lot faster than Marner and I’ll actually be shocked if he’s willing to sign in Toronto again.

He took a five year deal to become a UFA. Twist it all you want but this American doesn’t want to stay in Canada considering he’s from the southern west part of his country.
- Dozzer

Time will tell. I don't buy it. We have one of the best players in the entire league on our team. If he won't sign a new deal in 23-24, then we'll have to move him. We're never going to get close to his value in a trade so trading him would make us worse. Way worse.

There simply is no proof of that at this moment.
He may end up going elsewhere, but nothing to suggest it will occur at this moment.

He's on sportsnet at 5pm if you want to hear how much he misses home and hates Canada.


- Fakepartofme

Believing he’ll say it is foolish.

If he truly wanted to stay in Canada he would have simply been given more money and signed for 8 years.

But since he’s not they paid a fortune for Marner as well to make sure they don’t lose both.

Time will tell. I don't buy it. We have one of the best players in the entire league on our team. If he won't sign a new deal in 23-24, then we'll have to move him. We're never going to get close to his value in a trade so trading him would make us worse. Way worse.
- Monkeypunk

He has a NTC in his final year alone which means he’ll control where he gets traded to (which will be where he’s willing to sign) so he doesn’t end up playing for 3 cities in one bloody year.

If the leafs don’t succeed this year don’t be shocked if he gets moved to a team willing to pay a fortune for two years of his career.

Don’t be too sold on Matthews, I’m convinced he’ll taper off a lot faster than Marner and I’ll actually be shocked if he’s willing to sign in Toronto again.

He took a five year deal to become a UFA. Twist it all you want but this American doesn’t want to stay in Canada considering he’s from the southern west part of his country.
- Dozzer

I couldn't get there with you if I tried, there's nothing to support any of that. Nothing.

Stamkos walked himself to UFA, and then spurned his hometown team to extend max term in Tampa, and his RFA negotiations where a lot, lot rougher than Matthews was.

Matthews is the star player in one of the biggest hockey markets in the world. He will get offered whatever he wants money wise and have endorsement potential which can never be maxed out anywhere. Phoenix is a 20 year disaster with rocky ownership that doesn't even know where they're going to play hockey in a year. They just flushed the teams competitive ability (again) coming off a summer bottom tier workers were missing paycheques. He can walk down the street in Phoenix without even being recognized. MAYBE he's into all of that? But it's not hard to build a case that he'd much rather stay in Toronto.

Regarding falling off... I mean I'm supposed to buy all the above reasons Marner will get better, yet it's the opposite for the young star who just won the rocket? I can't do that either.

I take Matthews over Marner 10 times out of 10. He's the more talented player, he plays the more difficult position that's harder to find replacement level players at. I'd be willing to bet a heavy majority of NHL GMs would agree with me for all the same reasons they'd much rather have McDavid than Draisaitl.

Believing he’ll say it is foolish.

If he truly wanted to stay in Canada he would have simply been given more money and signed for 8 years.

But since he’s not they paid a fortune for Marner as well to make sure they don’t lose both.
- Dozzer

The reports are that they talked abut longer term and $$$. They couldn't make it work with Marner needing an extension at the same time. The Leafs had to give up term to keep the cap hit lower.

At least that's what I remember hearing or reading.

I couldn't get there with you if I tried, there's nothing to support any of that. Nothing.

Stamkos walked himself to UFA, and then spurned his hometown team to extend max term in Tampa, and his RFA negotiations where a lot, lot rougher than Matthews was.

Matthews is the star player in one of the biggest hockey markets in the world. He will get offered whatever he wants money wise and have endorsement potential which can never be maxed out anywheres. Phoenix is a 20 year disaster with Rocky ownership that doesn't even know where they're going to play hockey in a year. They just flushed the teams competitive ability (again) coming off a summer bottom tier workers were missing paycheques. He can walk down the street in Phoenix without even being recognized. MAYBE he's into all of that? But it's not hard to build a case that he'd much rather stay in Toronto.

Regarding falling off... I mean I'm supposed to buy all the above reasons Marner will get better, yet it's the opposite for the young star who just won the rocket? I can't do that either.

I take Matthews over Marner 10 times out of 10. He's the more talented player, he plays the more difficult position that's harder to find replacement level players at. I'd be willing to bet a heavy majority of NHL GMs would agree with me for all the same reasons they'd much rather have McDavid than Draisaitl.
- joel878

You take him over Marner but he won’t take the leafs over his home country.

And don’t compare a Canadian in Florida to an American in Toronto because loads of Canadians still live there and I’m betting his family hangs out a ton there as well

The reports are that they talked abut longer term and $$$. They couldn't make it work with Marner needing an extension at the same time. The Leafs had to give up term to keep the cap hit lower.

At least that's what I remember hearing or reading.
- Leafs43

Yes, and it was more to do with having him signed for a lower cap hit. It was as much a team decision as it was Matthews decision.

The reports are that they talked abut longer term and $$$. They couldn't make it work with Marner needing an extension at the same time. The Leafs had to give up term to keep the cap hit lower.

At least that's what I remember hearing or reading.
- Leafs43

Matthews will not spend his entire career as a leaf. I guarantee it.

Yes, and it was more to do with having him signed for a lower cap hit. It was as much a team decision as it was Matthews decision.
- joel878

Don’t cry in a year when the leafs bomb their season again and move Matthews k?

Matthews will not spend his entire career as a leaf. I guarantee it.
- Dozzer

Well I guess that settles it.

Well I guess that settles it.
- Leafs43

Other than Housley name one American star who played long term in Canada.

You take him over Marner but he won’t take the leafs over his home country.

And don’t compare a Canadian in Florida to an American in Toronto because loads of Canadians still live there and I’m betting his family hangs out a ton there as well
- Dozzer

It's comparable because top level hockey players often find a major Canadian market more appealing than a smaller one in the southern US. It would be much more likely Stamkos chose Toronto than it would be Auston chose Phoenix... Because there's plenty of more appealing variables in the formers decision than family.

Saying he won't take the leafs over his home country is nothing but presumptive, Marner absolutely folded over his hometown team for dollars not caring about much more than getting his. There's probably more evidence pointing towards business being business and personal being personal for both. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Matthews will not spend his entire career as a leaf. I guarantee it.
- Dozzer

This statement is a far cry from saying he won't resign here as a UFA when he's 26. That's not a far comparison to what you're saying at all. If Matthews signs a deal with Detroit when he's 35 after spending 16 years here, does that mean we lost by keeping him?

Yes, and it was more to do with having him signed for a lower cap hit. It was as much a team decision as it was Matthews decision.
- joel878

It also puts the Leafs in a better position for the second contract.

Assuming he resigns - he will be resigning at 26 for presumably 8 years. So ending at 34 ish. Which is much better than resigning at 29 until 37 ish.

Don’t cry in a year when the leafs bomb their season again and move Matthews k?
- Dozzer

Yeah, I'd bet a lot on the idea that they don't trade Matthews in a year.

Id probably side bet it that Marner is not a leaf well before Matthews too... 🤣

Other than Housley name one American star who played long term in Canada.
- Dozzer

Name an American star who played for a Canadian team and willingly left for an American market because they didn't want to be in Canada? You keep making this claim but everyone refutes it because there's no anecdotal evidence of it happening on any mass scale.

Far more Russians return to the KHL.

Does it mean that every Canadian who goes to a US team when they hit Free Agency is a traitor to their country?

It's comparable because top level hockey players often find a major Canadian market more appealing than a smaller one in the southern US. It would be much more likely Stamkos chose Toronto than it would be Auston chose Phoenix... Because there's plenty of more appealing variables in the formers decision than family.

Saying he won't take the leafs over his home country is nothing but presumptive, Marner absolutely folded over his hometown team for dollars not caring about much more than getting his. There's probably more evidence pointing towards business being business and personal being personal for both. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

It’s far more than presumptive. Name one American star who stayed in Canada long term. Even Chelios left Montreal after 7 years. Where to? Chicago, and guess who was born in Illinois

American players are simply flat out different when it comes to team loyalty

This statement is a far cry from saying he won't resign here as a UFA when he's 26. That's not a far comparison to what you're saying at all. If Matthews signs a deal with Detroit when he's 35 after spending 16 years here, does that mean we lost by keeping him?
- Monkeypunk

He won’t, as I said no American stars have ever stayed long term in Canada

Other than Housley name one American star who played long term in Canada.
- Dozzer

Wheeler, Byfuglien, Pacioretty, Kessel, Kesler... Brian Gionta?

I'm tempted to believe that if I can pull that off the top of my head, if I were to apply some research to that statement I think I could find a lot more. 🤔

Name an American star who played for a Canadian team and willingly left for an American market because they didn't want to be in Canada? You keep making this claim but everyone refutes it because there's no anecdotal evidence of it happening on any mass scale.

Far more Russians return to the KHL.

Does it mean that every Canadian who goes to a US team when they hit Free Agency is a traitor to their country?
- Monkeypunk

Every American star. Like I said, chelios to start off

Yeah, I'd bet a lot on the idea that they don't trade Matthews in a year.

Id probably side bet it that Marner is not a leaf well before Matthews too... 🤣
- joel878

Here's the thing - I agree with you about this, and in perhaps a closing to the Marner conversation: I believe in giving Marner the chance, but if they continue to not get it done, this is likely his last year. It will also spell the end of Dubas and Keefe. They'll take on a different strategy - and it may be the for the better - to balance the lineup and that will likely start with Marner for all of the reasons we've discussed: $11m out gives a great deal of flexibility. But his skillset is one you don't trade lightly and I'm all for giving him another chance.

Wheeler, Byfuglien, Pacioretty, Kessel, Kesler... Brian Gionta?

I'm tempted to believe that if I can pull that off the top of my head, if I were to apply some research to that statement I think I could find a lot more. 🤔
- joel878

Jessel didn’t stay in Canada for instance so try again.

I’m done with this convo.

Matthews will not stay in Toronto. I guarantee it.

Name an American star who played for a Canadian team and willingly left for an American market because they didn't want to be in Canada? You keep making this claim but everyone refutes it because there's no anecdotal evidence of it happening on any mass scale.

Far more Russians return to the KHL.

Does it mean that every Canadian who goes to a US team when they hit Free Agency is a traitor to their country?
- Monkeypunk

It's definitely a this for me. ^