I’d argue on paper it isn’t, but come camp if x young player outplays y vet I truly believe our coaching staff will have the young guy penciled in. Unless that spot is on the 4th line and it’s Frost. Idk about you, but I rather have Frost 1st line minutes (to start) in the AHL vs 4th line in NHL
- arichardson22

Frost and York have to do far more than just outplay their competition.

I think the Flyers are being smart here. Frost has barely played any hockey over the past 18 months and we saw firsthand what happens when you rush a young defenseman into the NHL and put too much on him. Hextall even stated he never saw a player regress by playing more games in the minors. I think the Flyers staff has already determined that Frost, York, Zamula and others are not ready and thus they have iced a more veteran team which will bide time for these and other young players to develop. Its a win win!
- jd250

We saw that happen because they put young players in the wrong spots, not because they were rushed to the NHL. For example. if Myers was playing on the 3rd pair last year with a good partner, he would've been better off. I'm perfectly fine if it turns out that Frost needs playing time in the AHL to get his game back. I'm not fine if he looks NHL ready and they send him down anyway because they signed a vet to a one year deal. I agree, they have already made the decision and that's what I have an issue with. It's a possible over correction based on last year.

Given Frost's size and skill set, I don't think he would make a very good 4th line center.
- jd250

Why do you have to have a traditional 4th line? Why can't you have a skilled 4th line?

What is the bar for Frost earning the spot? It's not about if the best place for the player turns out to be the AHL. It's about having a legit competition in camp. Where the better player plays. That is not the case in a few spots. It's already been determined unless the player makes them change their mind. That is an extremely high bar and not a normal competition for spots. The context of my position is not injuries opening up a spot.
- MJL

So it’s up to the player earning the spot. It should be a high bar. You just said it’s determined unless…… so nothing is actually determined yet.

Rather have. High bar with competition then kids getting thrown in too early.

Who says they are nhl ready?

Why do you have to have a traditional 4th line? Why can't you have a skilled 4th line?
- MJL

This...could very easily have a forth line of Oskar - Tanner - Brassard or Oskar - Frost -Tanner

you can always backtrack off that against "heavy" teams or if we get to the playoffs and have to come with a more traditional lineup, but lets get as many points as possible in the regular season so we dont have to do the "traditional" play ballz out the last 3 weeks of season just to get a kick at the can.

Why do you have to have a traditional 4th line? Why can't you have a skilled 4th line?
- MJL

It will be much better for Frost development getting 18-20 min a night in the AHL ,than getting 10 min a night in the NHL. To me, he has to earn a 3rd line spot, not a 4th line spot.

Why do you have to have a traditional 4th line? Why can't you have a skilled 4th line?
- MJL

I’m not asking for goons on the fourth line but I don’t mind some checkers. Skill guys need the puck and you need ice time to have the puck, 12 minutes a night isn’t a great spot for Frost. My ideal fourth line would be Lindblom brassard and Alison, Alison can forecheck and shoot the puck, his game isn’t based on puck possession.

It will be much better for Frost development getting 18-20 min a night in the AHL ,than getting 10 min a night in the NHL. To me, he has to earn a 3rd line spot, not a 4th line spot.
- bradster

Completely agree. Same with York.

Completely agree. Same with York.
- Peter Richards

Its almost like people are running out of things to complain about so lets complain about this....all while camps havent even started yet

If only we could have 5 lines. Problem solved.

Presuming Hayes is the same person after what he just went through with this brother.
- jd250

i predict the team rallies behind him and he has the best year of his career and we win the cup.

So it’s up to the player earning the spot. It should be a high bar. You just said it’s determined unless…… so nothing is actually determined yet.

Rather have. High bar with competition then kids getting thrown in too early.

Who says they are nhl ready?
- Peter Richards

You've got numerous things wrong here and are clearly not understanding my position.

Regressed last year; a weird Covid year where players were in isolation the team couldn't practice. I think its far too early to judge this. If these players regress further this year, then you have an argument.
- jd250

Every team and every player had the same restrictions last year. I could understand a player or 2 regressing but every single young player regressed by a wide margin ( except Farabee)

I’m not asking for goons on the fourth line but I don’t mind some checkers. Skill guys need the puck and you need ice time to have the puck, 12 minutes a night isn’t a great spot for Frost. My ideal fourth line would be Lindblom brassard and Alison, Alison can forecheck and shoot the puck, his game isn’t based on puck possession.
- ClaudeFather

12 minutes a night plus maybe some PP time in the NHL could be better for a player like Frost than playing in the NHL. If he proves rusty due to not playing for a while than so be it. Allison doesn't need ice time to score? Brassard doesn't? I don't see how the 4th line can be okay for Allison and Brassard but not Frost. Allison isn't going to shoot the puck much without puck possession.

First we have no goalie prospect that would beat out Jones for our back up role. 2nd, Braun was arguably our most consistent dman last year. The year before he slotted on 3rd pair and played well. He’ll slot there again this year. Brassard and Thompson won’t be regulars in my opinion. We have a tough-condensed schedule this year. Between that, potential injuries and covid I really think Brassard and Thompson are just depth guys.
- arichardson22

Brassard and Thompson arent here for depth they will be the 3rd and 4th line centers barring injurys. AVs job is on the line he will play the VETS

We saw that happen because they put young players in the wrong spots, not because they were rushed to the NHL. For example. if Myers was playing on the 3rd pair last year with a good partner, he would've been better off. I'm perfectly fine if it turns out that Frost needs playing time in the AHL to get his game back. I'm not fine if he looks NHL ready and they send him down anyway because they signed a vet to a one year deal. I agree, they have already made the decision and that's what I have an issue with. It's a possible over correction based on last year.
- MJL

Totally agree 100%..Perfectly stated

12 minutes a night plus maybe some PP time in the NHL could be better for a player like Frost than playing in the NHL. If he proves rusty due to not playing for a while than so be it. Allison doesn't need ice time to score? Brassard doesn't? I don't see how the 4th line can be okay for Allison and Brassard but not Frost. Allison isn't going to shoot the puck much without puck possession.
- MJL

Alison’s game isn’t based upon how his feel with the puck is going, Brassard is a veteran who has played up and down lineups. We’ve seen Frost NAK an impact playing with G, getting adequate minutes. When he’s on he’s making subtle plays with the puck , I don’t see how sitting on the bench most of the game helps a guy like him.

You've got numerous things wrong here and are clearly not understanding my position.
- MJL

What do do I get wrong?

Having a high bar for rookies to step into the nhl? The fact they should earn their spot? The idea they still could?

I’ll ask again. Who says York or frost are ready for a full nhl season? Both have to prove they belong. And will get that chance. York path is harder but is known as d take more time. Rushing them could easily hurt their development more.

Who are you taking off the pp to play frost? Yandle was brought in to assist with the pp as well. 3 rd line d man. Is York a better option for that?

Why don’t more teams start young kids on the 4 th line? Same reason Nate was signed. I quoted you on one line. The rest was me.

Yes though they do not see it that way. There is no way you will convince me Nate is better than other in house options.
- hello it's me 2050

Nate is a place holder, a depth player, nothing more. I wouldn't get too outraged yet until we see how AV uses him.

Nate is a place holder, a depth player, nothing more. I wouldn't get too outraged yet until we see how AV uses him.
- jd250

I saw how he used him last time around. I do not think that will change.

Nate is a place holder, a depth player, nothing more. I wouldn't get too outraged yet until we see how AV uses him.
- jd250

He’s the signing if any I wouldn’t have made. Don’t mind brassard as much but Nate is a waste imo. He will play 47-54 games.

We saw that happen because they put young players in the wrong spots, not because they were rushed to the NHL. For example. if Myers was playing on the 3rd pair last year with a good partner, he would've been better off. I'm perfectly fine if it turns out that Frost needs playing time in the AHL to get his game back. I'm not fine if he looks NHL ready and they send him down anyway because they signed a vet to a one year deal. I agree, they have already made the decision and that's what I have an issue with. It's a possible over correction based on last year.
- MJL

If Nate and Brassard as as bad as some on this forum think, and Frost is even remotely ready, it should be a slam dunk Frost makes the team, right? Something tells me Brassard and Nate are better than some give them credit to be and Frost will need time to get his game back.

It will be much better for Frost development getting 18-20 min a night in the AHL ,than getting 10 min a night in the NHL. To me, he has to earn a 3rd line spot, not a 4th line spot.
- bradster

Yes, agreed!

i predict the team rallies behind him and he has the best year of his career and we win the cup.
- black_francis

Wouldn't that be nice!

If Nate and Brassard as as bad as some on this forum think, and Frost is even remotely ready, it should be a slam dunk Frost makes the team, right? Something tells me Brassard and Nate are better than some give them credit to be and Frost will need time to get his game back.
- jd250

not based on what the GM said