Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Sep 17 @ 5:02 PM ET
The two greatest games I ever saw Sundin play were:
1996 World Cup - I think it was the semis, Canada vs. Sweden. Damn, he was dominant. Canada won in OT, but he was the 1st, 2nd and 3rd stars of the game.
Welcome Back Wendel night at MLG. We had just got Wendel back (huge mistake), and Sundin let Toronto know that it was his team, not Wendel's. (I had a "Welcome Back, Wendel - from Cheerios t-shirt - it was my hockey shirt for years).
He also had some epic playoff performances.
But having seen what he could do, I always wondered why he didn't do it more often. He often left you wanting more. - Atomic Wedgie
He wasn’t a firecracker, tear out your lungs kind of guy
He was smooth enough to make it look like it was effortless or less work than a lot of guys.
How many nights was he supposed to carry a team on his back? Guys have to find their own physical and emotional level that they can sustain over a season and career. He was wired differently
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Sep 17 @ 5:05 PM ET
I like good all around games and tbh if the leafs had more salary they could spend I’d want better D
Like I mentioned earlier, the best D man was only plus 11, which was 40th amongst the D men around the league. I’m not too worried about the forwards, there’s enough skill to score, but the D isn’t sitting too well with me - Dozzer
If you want to go by last year’s numbers which a lot of people dismiss because apparently we were playing ECHL teams, Leafs D were ranked 6th or 7th in the League in GA
Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
Sep 17 @ 5:06 PM ET
He wasn’t a firecracker, tear out your lungs kind of guy
He was smooth enough to make it look like it was effortless or less work than a lot of guys.
How many nights was he supposed to carry a team on his back? Guys have to find their own physical and emotional level that they can sustain over a season and career. He was wired differently - Canada Cup
This is going to sound like I'm slagging Forsberg, but I'm really not:
I always thought that Forsberg benefitted from having Sakic as the captain. Forsberg could just quietly go about doing his thing. He could show leadership in the dressing room, but he didn't have to deal with the media (although that was much less of a job in Denver).
I always thought that Sundin would have benefitted from an arrangement like that - I never really felt like he loved all the crap that came with being Leafs captain.
Location: I'm excited to see that Joined: 08.28.2010
Sep 17 @ 5:08 PM ET
If you want to go by last year’s numbers which a lot of people dismiss because apparently we were playing ECHL teams, Leafs D were ranked 6th or 7th in the League in GA - Canada Cup
And 7th worst on the penalty kill with the best penalty killer on the team leading the way.
Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Sep 17 @ 5:08 PM ET
He wasn’t a firecracker, tear out your lungs kind of guy
He was smooth enough to make it look like it was effortless or less work than a lot of guys.
How many nights was he supposed to carry a team on his back? Guys have to find their own physical and emotional level that they can sustain over a season and career. He was wired differently - Canada Cup
Good points here.
Wendel played with reckless abandon but was never half as effective or talented as Mats. But, well, if you're used to watching a heart-on-your-sleeve guy and then you get a cool cucumber like Mats leading your team it's jarring.
It's funny thinking back on Clark -- because he definitely dogged it on a lot of shifts and wasn't the "leave it all on ice" player on every shift. But he gets a pass because when he was a warrior it was unmistakable.
Mats never looked like he was shifting gears -- he was just consistent as (frank) and when he did put the team on his back it was an unexpected lethal play that would just come out of nowhere (like his many, many OT winners).
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine Joined: 04.03.2016
Sep 17 @ 5:11 PM ET
The problem for many leafs fans is that if you aren’t a goal scorer you’re not worth much. Doesn’t matter if Marner is essentially the best player on the team for the PP, PK, and top line minutes (all around game is what I’m referencing). If he’s not a hitter or a scorer so many people consider him not worth much.
Also unlike Matthews my guess is he’s in Toronto a long time - Dozzer
Marner is an excellent player. His effectiveness on the PP is limited IMO because his shot is not particularly strong or accurate. Having him on the point is also a questionable strategy IMO, because the defender knows he will probably pass instead of shooting so the defender has a sigificant advantage. Nylander at the point on the first PP unit would make more sense. His shot is excellent and defenders would have to defend against both the shot and pass options. I haven't seen WAR stats or GAR stats for 2021, but would think that Matthews was easily the top forward in both categories. Neither Marner or Matthews have hit their peak productivity yet.
Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Sep 17 @ 5:12 PM ET
This is going to sound like I'm slagging Forsberg, but I'm really not:
I always thought that Forsberg benefitted from having Sakic as the captain. Forsberg could just quietly go about doing his thing. He could show leadership in the dressing room, but he didn't have to deal with the media (although that was much less of a job in Denver).
I always thought that Sundin would have benefitted from an arrangement like that - I never really felt like he loved all the crap that came with being Leafs captain. - Atomic Wedgie
To be fair: there was nothing quiet about how Forsberg played.
You're right though, Sundin never had a player of Sakic's pedigree to help him though (ironically).
Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
Sep 17 @ 5:13 PM ET
Good points here.
Wendel played with reckless abandon but was never half as effective or talented as Mats. But, well, if you're used to watching a heart-on-your-sleeve guy and then you get a cool cucumber like Mats leading your team it's jarring.
It's funny thinking back on Clark -- because he definitely dogged it on a lot of shifts and wasn't the "leave it all on ice" player on every shift. But he gets a pass because when he was a warrior it was unmistakable.
Mats never looked like he was shifting gears -- he was just consistent as (frank) and when he did put the team on his back it was an unexpected lethal play that would just come out of nowhere (like his many, many OT winners). - mjones242
He was completely broken down. It wasn't his fault.
His second stint in Toronto was awful.
And do not tell me he had a third stint in Toronto, because through years and years of therapy, I have worked hard to forget that it ever happened.
Gawd, he embarrassed himself. And that really hurts for me to say, because I loved the man.
Sniff...sniff...allergies are acting up. I may have to go down to the Madison tonight to bring back the old memories...
Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
Sep 17 @ 5:19 PM ET
The Madison ugh... - Zezel
You watch your franking mouth, Zezzie.
Back in the day, it was the place to go on Saturday nights after the game.
Al Strachan was always there. Gord Miller was there a lot. Paul Romanuk.
And Wendel would often show up (he lived on Madison).
It's where I saw the 2002 gold medal game. Funny story: before the game, a guy wearing a USA jersey sorta sidled up to us - asked if it was OK if he watched with us, because he was worried about his safety. We laughed - assured him he was fine, as long as Canada won. Turned out to be a nice guy.
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high Joined: 09.15.2010
Sep 17 @ 5:22 PM ET
If you want to go by last year’s numbers which a lot of people dismiss because apparently we were playing ECHL teams, Leafs D were ranked 6th or 7th in the League in GA - Canada Cup
I think it’s safe to say it won’t be anywhere near that this season
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow since I’m way up high Joined: 09.15.2010
Sep 17 @ 5:24 PM ET
Marner is an excellent player. His effectiveness on the PP is limited IMO because his shot is not particularly strong or accurate. Having him on the point is also a questionable strategy IMO, because the defender knows he will probably pass instead of shooting so the defender has a sigificant advantage. Nylander at the point on the first PP unit would make more sense. His shot is excellent and defenders would have to defend against both the shot and pass options. I haven't seen WAR stats or GAR stats for 2021, but would think that Matthews was easily the top forward in both categories. Neither Marner or Matthews have hit their peak productivity yet. - winsix
Both are great players but are far different players…. It amazes me that people don’t see that.
I will agree about wishing Marner would shoot a bit more on the PP however
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Sep 17 @ 5:32 PM ET
Marner is an excellent player. His effectiveness on the PP is limited IMO because his shot is not particularly strong or accurate. Having him on the point is also a questionable strategy IMO, because the defender knows he will probably pass instead of shooting so the defender has a sigificant advantage. Nylander at the point on the first PP unit would make more sense. His shot is excellent and defenders would have to defend against both the shot and pass options. I haven't seen WAR stats or GAR stats for 2021, but would think that Matthews was easily the top forward in both categories. Neither Marner or Matthews have hit their peak productivity yet. - winsix
What I remember of a good PP was Matthews and Willie on the wings with good movement between them. I think they need to replicate that with Marner, Rielly and one of JT, Ritchie or Bunting providing retrieval/net presence.
Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
Sep 17 @ 5:33 PM ET
It was quite the “pop your collar” place in its day - Canada Cup
For those of you who have never been, it started as a big house that was converted into a bar. It became so popular they bought the house next door and connected them. So it was a bar that was chopped up into a bunch of smaller rooms.
Well, to start, there was one room upstairs that was non-smoking. It had huge lineups. So eventually they started converting more an more rooms to non-smoking. But really slowly.
It always frustrated the hell out of me, because you could clearly see that supply was smaller than demand for non-smoking.
FFS, they just should have made the entire place smoke-free.