It would be nice if the Habs had a clear plan and stuck to it.

Habs are / were half in on the "get any (over the hill?) vet that is valuable and has playoff experience that will play here" and "we are going with youth"... and we saw how they conflicted with each other over the last 8 years.

Yes, some things are out of your control (Weber being done, players not wanting to come to MTL as free agents / trades), but you need to have some flexibility in your approach to adjust and compensate.

That is why I think the Habs need a President of Hockey Operations to set the direction and then let others execute on it... regardless of what you think of MB, he has proven he is not capable of being the guy to hold to a long-term strategy and build lasting success.

One of the reason I really admire a guy like Yzeman - dude has a plan, sticks to it, and is relentless in his approach to getting it there.
- Mashadar

all of this makes sense, but I just find the implicit tanking that this entails is just so (frank)ing depressing, and still not a guarantee for eventual success.

Even on gramps face?
- mr.peanut

oh my

kicksave in the name of!
- kicksave856

I can hear the wawa pedal from here

I can hear the wawa pedal from here
- Pat1993

It would be nice if the Habs had a clear plan and stuck to it.

Habs are / were half in on the "get any (over the hill?) vet that is valuable and has playoff experience that will play here" and "we are going with youth"... and we saw how they conflicted with each other over the last 8 years.

Yes, some things are out of your control (Weber being done, players not wanting to come to MTL as free agents / trades), but you need to have some flexibility in your approach to adjust and compensate.

That is why I think the Habs need a President of Hockey Operations to set the direction and then let others execute on it... regardless of what you think of MB, he has proven he is not capable of being the guy to hold to a long-term strategy and build lasting success.

One of the reason I really admire a guy like Yzeman - dude has a plan, sticks to it, and is relentless in his approach to getting it there.
- Mashadar

one of the problems here is that every time the Habs bottom out and look like they're set for a re-start, they have unexpected success. this goes back to Bergevin's first year where they were coming off a bottom-3 season and then ripped off 3 really good years in a row. bottomed out again, then won a division title the next year. bottomed out again, then had that unexpectedly strong season where they missed the playoffs by 2 points. bottomed out again the next year, then made the SCF the next year.

- kicksave856

I'm sure it produces the most delicious sound

kicksave in the name of!
- kicksave856

I was thinking bullpoop on parade

all of this makes sense, but I just find the implicit tanking that this entails is just so (frank)ing depressing, and still not a guarantee for eventual success.
- Pat1993

Does not mean you have to tank, but that is one (bad way: see Oilers or Sabres) way to do it.

Look at what Detroit is doing, swapping out players, getting rid of bad contracts, not signing long-term contracts, accumulating assets and picks. I don't think they are tanking specifically for the #1 pick (after all, we saw the draft lottery luck, or bad luck).

They are setting the organization up to have complete control going forward - whether that is free agency, taking on good players with contracts / term on teams with cap problems (ie: Vrana), and getting picks to build a foundation.

Yeah, they suck right now, but they sucked harder when Yzeman took over. However, they are building a framework for success with long-term flexibility, and based on the market, the Wings can go in any direction.

I was thinking bullpoop on parade
- Takemedrunkimhome

I'm sure it produces the most delicious sound
- Pat1993

there should be a bacon button that adds a sizzling sound.

there should be a bacon button that adds a sizzling sound.
- kicksave856

and also produces a bacon smell, for live performances

and also produces a bacon smell, for live performances
- Pat1993

*buys ticket*

Does not mean you have to tank, but that is one (bad way: see Oilers or Sabres) way to do it.

Look at what Detroit is doing, swapping out players, getting rid of bad contracts, not signing long-term contracts, accumulating assets and picks. I don't think they are tanking specifically for the #1 pick (after all, we saw the draft lottery luck, or bad luck).

They are setting the organization up to have complete control going forward - whether that is free agency, taking on good players with contracts / term on teams with cap problems (ie: Vrana), and getting picks to build a foundation.

Yeah, they suck right now, but they sucked harder when Yzeman took over. However, they are building a framework for success with long-term flexibility, and based on the market, the Wings can go in any direction.
- Mashadar

I dunno, how many years do you think DET will still be sucking before they get really good..?

*buys ticket*
- kicksave856

I dunno, how many years do you think DET will still be sucking before they get really good..?
- Pat1993

How many more years do you think the Habs will be mediocre (on top of the last 30+) barely making the playoffs, if at all, under the current direction? They really have no long term plan, just hoping things work by plugging players in and sometimes it kinda does.

So thanks Covid.

We asking for another pandemic?

Maybe it is the project manager in me, but I'd take Yzerman's approach 100 out of 100 times over the current Habs (lack of) direction.

That is my frustration... try something, be brave about it... maybe it does not work out, but at least it is a plan that can potentially lead you to having an elite team. Otherwise, it is just mediocrity year after year.

I dunno, how many years do you think DET will still be sucking before they get really good..?
- Pat1993

Look at the roster they started with. The NHL has an issue with their cba and player movement that limits it so severely that a rebuild takes longer. The NFL it takes a max of two seasons and that's with a 53 man roster. Stevie Y is taking his time but there haven't been a ton of chances for him to jumpstart it either way but it beats building a team of vets that will finish with a pick in the 10-15 range and has to hit draft home runs to get difference makers

my mom used to say i was too!
- kicksave856

maybe she thought you were kickbro

Look at the roster they started with. The NHL has an issue with their cba and player movement that limits it so severely that a rebuild takes longer. The NFL it takes a max of two seasons and that's with a 53 man roster. Stevie Y is taking his time but there haven't been a ton of chances for him to jumpstart it either way but it beats building a team of vets that will finish with a pick in the 10-15 range and has to hit draft home runs to get difference makers
- Takemedrunkimhome

the nhl has a problem with GM signing bad contracts more than anything else. that limits player movements, imo

maybe she thought you were kickbro
- Gramps28

we did look a lot alike.

How many more years do you think the Habs will be mediocre (on top of the last 30+) barely making the playoffs, if at all, under the current direction? They really have no long term plan, just hoping things work by plugging players in and sometimes it kinda does.

So thanks Covid.

We asking for another pandemic?

Maybe it is the project manager in me, but I'd take Yzerman's approach 100 out of 100 times over the current Habs (lack of) direction.

That is my frustration... try something, be brave about it... maybe it does not work out, but at least it is a plan that can potentially lead you to having an elite team. Otherwise, it is just mediocrity year after year.
- Mashadar

Look at the roster they started with. The NHL has an issue with their cba and player movement that limits it so severely that a rebuild takes longer. The NFL it takes a max of two seasons and that's with a 53 man roster. Stevie Y is taking his time but there haven't been a ton of chances for him to jumpstart it either way but it beats building a team of vets that will finish with a pick in the 10-15 range and has to hit draft home runs to get difference makers
- Takemedrunkimhome

I agree with both of you, but it's just that the idea of basically hoping the team I cheer for loses has never been enticing to me (because if they don't end up losing enough then it kind of defeats the purpose, like when the habs were winning but weren't expected to do so). I guess I unreasonably want to have my cake and eat it too lol

the nhl has a problem with GM signing bad contracts more than anything else. that limits player movements, imo
- Gramps28

Agreed but the reason they do that is the fear of not being able to replace them. NFL teams know there's always somebody in FA or the draft. NHL players are restricted from free agency for way too long in my opinion

the nhl has a problem with GM signing bad contracts more than anything else. that limits player movements, imo
- Gramps28

Too many old school thinking GMs thinking about plus/minus in an era of advanced stats..... signing older guys to contracts that will cripple them just because of past performance.

I'd rather roll the dice on a young kid, overpay for right now but be a bargain down the road... also cheeper buyout/cap impact for players under 26 if it blows up.

I agree with both of you, but it's just that the idea of basically hoping the team I cheer for loses has never been enticing to me (because if they don't end up losing enough then it kind of defeats the purpose, like when the habs were winning but weren't expected to do so). I guess I unreasonably want to have my cake and eat it too lol
- Pat1993

There's a difference between not putting all your assets in play to make a mediocre team competitive and cheering for your team to lose. You can want them to win every game but it's easier to accept the losses when you're playing kids and see the path to the future vs middling vets and a loss is a loss is a loss

I agree with both of you, but it's just that the idea of basically hoping the team I cheer for loses has never been enticing to me (because if they don't end up losing enough then it kind of defeats the purpose, like when the habs were winning but weren't expected to do so). I guess I unreasonably want to have my cake and eat it too lol
- Pat1993

I think it is equally depressing, if not more, no matter my excitement and potential optimism at the start of a new year, knowing my team realistically has no shot at the cup and likely the playoffs.

Knowing the team is building towards something, rather than plugging holes and hoping it works out, would be a nice change.

That is why I got excited when MB said they needed to move forward with youth, and completely gave up on him (especially after the trade deadline last year) by playing old vets over the kids.