Third line minutes + PK + PP still gets him close to 20 min/g. Plus turns a couple of 15 goal guys into 30 goal guys and shuts down other team’s top lines.
- jribout

His logic has been beaten to death a handful of times on this page alone, and he's still quadrupling down because Marner allegedly drove a line 5 years ago. Willie did it 3 months ago but whatever.

Should be able to expect Marner to do it well before Willie because salary.

Lol he’s terrible at it.. he just stands there waving his stick around.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

So does he stand there or float?

Make up your mind.

Marner has already proven it. He carried Bozak and JVR his first year.

Willy is nowhere near the complete player Marner is. And he never will be.

Sure Willy can score like a top six fwd, but he doesn’t defend like one.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Willie is a strong top 6 player. He’s a step below Marner, paid a step and half below Marner. It’s nice to have both on the team. These arguments are absurd on both sides

His logic has been beaten to death a handful of times on this page alone, and he's still quadrupling down because Marner allegedly drove a line 5 years ago. Willie did it 3 months ago but whatever.

Should be able to expect Marner to do it well before Willie because salary.
- joel878

Plus what about poor JT. AA has stated several times he is way overpaid so how can he be expected to drive a line anymore?

Willie is a strong top 6 player. He’s a step below Marner, paid a step and half below Marner. It’s nice to have both on the team. These arguments are absurd on both sides
- Canada Cup

BINGO!

Marner is a first team NHL all star, that’s ridiculous.

- Arctic_AARDVARK

It is ridiculous. Just like your assertion that Willy should be driving the third line offensively with no supporting players.

It's our team. We want the best from it. Taking one of your team's best scorers and theoretically reducing their ice time to 12 minutes / game isn't in the team's best interests.

Jays😔
- mr.sir

Red Sox lost too so still a game out

Willie is a strong top 6 player. He’s a step below Marner, paid a step and half below Marner. It’s nice to have both on the team. These arguments are absurd on both sides
- Canada Cup

The argument from me is intended to point out the absurdity of the argument, for what it's worth.

The argument from me is intended to point out the absurdity of the argument, for what it's worth.
- Monkeypunk

Play to your strengths I always say, absurdly

I’d expect nothing less and love it

Make like a tree and (frank) off


- RickJames77

Open question:

Can someone explain to me how the determination has been made that Marner is an elite defensive player, yet Nylander is a defensive liability?

Being genuine on this, I'm not a massive advanced stats guy.

I'm looking for something beyond 'because Marner kills penalties and Nylander floats', that's incredibly subjective and without much basis to me. You can literally find minor leaguers who penalty kill well, and as far as I'm concerned they both come with their share of floating.

It would appear across the board that the determination has been made, and Marner is Bergeron and Nylander is Jason Blake.

Full disclosure: I watch 82 leaf games a season, the eye test genuinely doesn't leave me seeing much of a difference between the two defensively. There are times I see one make a quality defensive play, there are times I see one or the other (frank) up. I'm absolutely missing the bus on how we came to the conclusion that there's such a monstrosity of a gap between the two.
- joel878

Being genuine, Marner has always hussled back and tried to catch a guy, Nylander floats off to the bench 8/10 times. JMO

It is ridiculous. Just like your assertion that Willy should be driving the third line offensively with no supporting players.

It's our team. We want the best from it. Taking one of your team's best scorers and theoretically reducing their ice time to 12 minutes / game isn't in the team's best interests.
- Monkeypunk

Kerfoot is a pretty capable player.. And it looks like Bunting can handle himself just fine.

If Ehlers can get time on the third line, and he’s obviously a better all around player than Nylander, then Willy can get some third line starts.

Open question:

Can someone explain to me how the determination has been made that Marner is an elite defensive player, yet Nylander is a defensive liability?

Being genuine on this, I'm not a massive advanced stats guy.

I'm looking for something beyond 'because Marner kills penalties and Nylander floats', that's incredibly subjective and without much basis to me. You can literally find minor leaguers who penalty kill well, and as far as I'm concerned they both come with their share of floating.

It would appear across the board that the determination has been made, and Marner is Bergeron and Nylander is Jason Blake.

Full disclosure: I watch 82 leaf games a season, the eye test genuinely doesn't leave me seeing much of a difference between the two defensively. There are times I see one make a quality defensive play, there are times I see one or the other (frank) up. I'm absolutely missing the bus on how we came to the conclusion that there's such a monstrosity of a gap between the two.
- joel878

they are the same thing🤦‍♂️

soft as slime selfish little pencil neck boyz🤦🏿‍♂️

neither one gives a sh!t about the team or defense🤦‍♂️

Being genuine, Marner has always hussled back and tried to catch a guy, Nylander floats off to the bench 8/10 times. JMO
- Garnie

When they were rookies, I agree. But we are quite a ways removed from that and the last year or two I'm not seeing much separation one way or the other.

I'd love to see some fancy stats people provide some insight. Because I am this summer seeing Nylander referenced a lot more in the press as a 'two way forward', and am not reading (frank) all about Marners defensive abilities.

It's as if hockey people are learning the whole Marner's a defensive stud at 10.9 million and willie at 6.9 is hot floating garbage narrative is smoke and mirrors, and the general populous of hockeybuzz is dependably behind the curve. 🤷🏻‍♂️

When they were rookies, I agree. But we are quite a ways removed from that and the last year or two I'm not seeing much separation one way or the other.

I'd love to see some fancy stats people provide some insight. Because I am this summer seeing Nylander referenced a lot more in the press as a 'two way forward', and am not reading (frank) all about Marners defensive abilities.

It's as if hockey people are learning the whole Marner's a defensive stud at 10.9 million and willie at 6.9 is hot floating garbage narrative is smoke and mirrors, and the general populous of hockeybuzz is dependably behind the curve. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

You’re an awful liar

You’re an awful liar
- Arctic_AARDVARK

Yikes another bad post

Yikes another bad post
- Santo_44

But never ever calls people names 😂

But never ever calls people names 😂
- jribout

What name did I call him?

Yikes another bad post
- Santo_44

This ones for you to solve Santo Crumb PI.

Where are all these many articles in the media calling Willy a two-way forward?

Red Sox lost too so still a game out
- Canada Cup

Mariners won, jumped over the Jays
huge opportunity blown

not looking good

When they were rookies, I agree. But we are quite a ways removed from that and the last year or two I'm not seeing much separation one way or the other.

I'd love to see some fancy stats people provide some insight. Because I am this summer seeing Nylander referenced a lot more in the press as a 'two way forward', and am not reading (frank) all about Marners defensive abilities.

It's as if hockey people are learning the whole Marner's a defensive stud at 10.9 million and willie at 6.9 is hot floating garbage narrative is smoke and mirrors, and the general populous of hockeybuzz is dependably behind the curve. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

I haven’t seen much difference from then til now. Advanced stats for D are tough I would think. Give aways - take aways are subjective…if you let up and let the other guy get the puck 1st it’s pretty hard to give it away and a lot easier to be given credit for a take away. I like Nylander but wouldn’t want him out there in the last few minutes trying to finish it off…he’s always a the furthest guy from our net. Just my take, I don’t want to trade him, Unless we take a time machine back and Calgary wants him for Doogie.

Mariners won, jumped over the Jays
huge opportunity blown

not looking good
- senstroll

Aren’t the Leafs enough of a disappointment? Why do you do it to yourself? 🤣

Mariners won, jumped over the Jays
huge opportunity blown

not looking good
- senstroll

Vladdy flipped the puck over the glass last night. The whole top of the order did.

Nothing left to do but win 5 games. Cole tonight

Aren’t the Leafs enough of a disappointment? Why do you do it to yourself? 🤣
- Garnie

I cant even bring myself to watch the Leafs, I have to get my crushing disappointment somewhere.

if they come up short, what a tease that stretch was where they got back into the race to poop the bed

go sports team

So does he stand there or float?

Make up your mind.
- joel878

You can float in the same spot...