I'm being dishonest in my responses? That seems like quite a charge!

Perhaps what you actually mean is that I may have misconstrued or exaggerated your context? Which would be certainly a more charitable read but, at least per exaggeration, is largely (or at least, consciously) unintentional.

Frankly, I think the knock(s) against Ritchie based on one exhibition game where he was being centered by (frank)ing Adam Brooks is unfair. No one seemed to give a poop that Kerfoot looked uninspired and lost in his preseason debut. But hey, new shiny toys need to be instantly graded, right?

Look, I'm not inside your head so I have to infer certain narratives based on the limited content that you've provided in your responses. If I'm off-base in my replies to you than you can further articulate and course correct the conversation so that I can do less inferring.

We have some ideas about what the lines may look like but, ultimately, it's super unclear after 1 or 2 games played by any of these players.

Certainly, the Leafs LW situation is super thin so a guy like Ritchie - despite a potentially slow start - will get ample opportunities to prove his quality (or lack thereof).

(lastly, I do appreciate our debates and your responses to me... it says a lot that you bother)
- mjones242

Pistols are fine but dawn isn’t happening. All I’ve said or all that I can now remember is that I wasn’t that impressed with Ritchie’s game last night and I thought the other new guys under consideration for top 6 spots (Bunting and Kase) were better.

All this is one game but we’re not allowed to talk about the demise of American democracy.

So what you're seeing is that we need a Leafs' Leftwing Leaderboard!

Ritchie
Kerfoot
Bunting
Mikheyev
Engvall
Gusev
Simmonds (natural RW)
Kase (I think he's always played RW, but I may be mistaken)
- Monkeypunk

Robertson gets no respect. He should have at least made the list.

Fixed

So what you're seeing is that we need a Leafs' Leftwing Leaderboard!


Bunting
Ritchie
Kerfoot
Mikheyev
Engvall
Gusev
Simmonds (natural RW)
Kase (I think he's always played RW, but I may be mistaken)
- Monkeypunk

Ya - I just think the award itself has become boring and predictable.

I could watch zero hockey games in a year and have a relatively good chance of picking the MVP winner using the scoring leaders.

Only real surprise in the last few years for me was Hall.
- Leafs43

I don't even think Hall was a surprise...Pretty certain he had 50 more points than the second leading scorer on the Devils.

McDavid is certainly the most explosive offensive player in the league by a wide margin but I'm not sure if that should fit the spirit of the award.

But then again, by what metrics are the voters using to gauge who is the MVP? Frankly, I doubt there's any true consideration beyond "Player X got a lot of points and if you remove them from the team they probably miss the playoffs".

I just find it absurd that in the last 70 years we've had two d-men with the award with one of them being arguably the greatest hockey player ever who also managed to be perennially in the Art Ross race (he won 2 of those!).

Why didn't Lidstrom get a nod? How about Chara? Or Hedman?

Voters should have to write a short essay providing some analysis to back up their vote. It'll never happy - I mean, who wants to put actual critical thought into these things, right?

We could also look at the Norris and Selke awards (etc) as subjectively flawed. Ehh... I'm getting myself all worked up about nothing. Subjective based awards are dumb. 😒
- mjones242

You’re right about the voters ignoring defensemen. I have to admit I have never thought about that. When you look at a guy like Pronger and the difference that he made on the teams he played for it’s quite remarkable. And he’s just one example.

Robertson gets no respect. He should have at least made the list.
- Leafs43

I hope I’m wrong about Robertson but he reminds me of Yakupov. Ferraro said he always looked like he was being chased by bees. That’s what I see in Robertson.

Pistols are fine but dawn isn’t happening. All I’ve said or all that I can now remember is that I wasn’t that impressed with Ritchie’s game last night and I thought the other new guys under consideration for top 6 spots (Bunting and Kase) were better.

All this is one game but we’re not allowed to talk about the demise of American democracy.
- Canada Cup

why do you hate thicc Nick?

Pistols are fine but dawn isn’t happening. All I’ve said or all that I can now remember is that I wasn’t that impressed with Ritchie’s game last night and I thought the other new guys under consideration for top 6 spots (Bunting and Kase) were better.

All this is one game but we’re not allowed to talk about the demise of American democracy.
- Canada Cup

why do you hate thicc Nick?
- 21peter

Is that referring to Nick Robertson, Nick Ritchie, Nic Cage or St. Nick?

So what you're seeing is that we need a Leafs' Leftwing Leaderboard!

Ritchie
Kerfoot
Bunting
Mikheyev
Engvall
Gusev
Simmonds (natural RW)
Kase (I think he's always played RW, but I may be mistaken)
- Monkeypunk

I wonder if Nylander could be a LW option? I can't remember who suggested it on this board, but the following Top 6 was pretty intriguing:

Ritchie-AM34-Marner
Willie-Snake-Kase

Kase and Willie both shoot right so you'd think LW might be beneficial for shooting, eh?

he's clearly no pea brain
- 21peter

agreed

not likely with Mr. Jim Benning driving our bus
- LeftCoaster

Ya but its a short bus....easier to maneuver.

Pistols are fine but dawn isn’t happening. All I’ve said or all that I can now remember is that I wasn’t that impressed with Ritchie’s game last night and I thought the other new guys under consideration for top 6 spots (Bunting and Kase) were better.

All this is one game but we’re not allowed to talk about the demise of American democracy.
- Canada Cup

Pistols? I thought we were just mulling over tar and feather and pitchforks?

Geez.. that escalated!

Having said that, I'm sure we could figure out some coded talk where we swap players for political positions. 🤔 Dozzer is a quick study though so that stratagem may not work.

You’re right about the voters ignoring defensemen. I have to admit I have never thought about that. When you look at a guy like Pronger and the difference that he made on the teams he played for it’s quite remarkable. And he’s just one example.
- shack67

Yeah, considering how much a stud #1 d-man actually plays in terms of TOI and the level competition faced, it's a bit absurd there haven't been more D-man winners. (e.g. Bourque, Lidstrom, Chara, et al.)

I wonder if Nylander could be a LW option? I can't remember who suggested it on this board, but the following Top 6 was pretty intriguing:

Ritchie-AM34-Marner
Willie-Snake-Kase

Kase and Willie both shoot right so you'd think LW might be beneficial for shooting, eh?
- mjones242

I think Willy has stated that he prefers LW and he has played there with Team Sweden and with the Marlies. That said, the Leafs have tried him at LW on a number of occasions and seem to prefer him on the right side (I recall looking at the advanced numbers or even individual situational numbers, and they definitely favoured him on the right-side). If Nylander were an LW contender, I think that line would work. I had also suggested it previously, but reluctantly because I'm not sure Nylander is beneficial on the left side (but he absolutely crushes it for Sweden off the left wing).

For Leafs34 - the only reason I didn't list Robertson is that based on our cap situation and "depth" on the left-side, I think they've sent the message that they want to see him go and be a dominant player in the AHL. I don't think Robertson gets a chance _unless_ injuries occur and the door is opened almost just for him. Like, he might get a late season call-up if he does what they expect for the Marlies.

I hope I’m wrong about Robertson but he reminds me of Yakupov. Ferraro said he always looked like he was being chased by bees. That’s what I see in Robertson.
- shack67

Robertson has always been super-motivated and the hardest working player on team's he's played for. Hayley Wickenheiser called him out as needing to dial it back a bit and pick his spots -- I'm not sure Nick has that capability.

Also, he tends to get pushed around a bit out there so I'd like to see him work on his strength and balance.

I remain cautiously optimistic about his chances to be a regular NHLer. Can he be our Debrincat?

I hope I’m wrong about Robertson but he reminds me of Yakupov. Ferraro said he always looked like he was being chased by bees. That’s what I see in Robertson.
- shack67

Players like him are hard to gauge I think.

I could see him being a good top 6 player both 5v5 and on the PP.

I could also see him becoming more of a PP specialist (I really like his shot).

I could also see him flaming out and being traded for a 6th two years from now.

Pistols? I thought we were just mulling over tar and feather and pitchforks?

Geez.. that escalated!

Having said that, I'm sure we could figure out some coded talk where we swap players for political positions. 🤔 Dozzer is a quick study though so that stratagem may not work.
- mjones242

Would "Babcock" be the code word for "Doug Ford"

I hope I’m wrong about Robertson but he reminds me of Yakupov. Ferraro said he always looked like he was being chased by bees. That’s what I see in Robertson.
- shack67

To me, the difference in Yakupov was that he was running away from the bees.

Robertson is propelled towards things with the bees.

I see little fear in Robertson's game, which may be his undoing. Being a smaller guy, he's going to have to coat himself in the same stuff Gallagher does.

I recall the first time I saw Taylor Hall (not intending this as a 1:1 comparison by any stretch), having that thought that this kid was in for a short career the way he recklessly careened around the ice sliding legs first, head first and shoulder first into the boards. Robertson feels similar in parts of the way he plays for sure.

So what you're seeing is that we need a Leafs' Leftwing Leaderboard!

Fixt

Mikheyev
Bunting
Ritchie
Engvall

Kerfoot (prefer him as C)
Gusev
Simmonds (natural RW)
Kase (I think he's always played RW, but I may be mistaken)
- Monkeypunk

So what you're seeing is that we need a Leafs' Leftwing Leaderboard!

Fixt

Mikheyev
Bunting
Ritchie
Engvall

Kerfoot (prefer him as C)
Gusev
Simmonds (natural RW)
Kase (I think he's always played RW, but I may be mistaken)

- mr.sir

I used to go drinking at lunch, too.

Good times.

Drop any political referencing immediately.

Also do not separate players by addressing skin colour.

Warnings are done, bans will begin.

I used to go drinking at lunch, too.

Good times.
- Monkeypunk

Technically not lunch here yet😁

Drop any political referencing immediately.

Also do not separate players by addressing skin colour.

Warnings are done, bans will begin.
- Dozzer

Good afternoon Lord Master Dozzer, how is it going?

McDavid is certainly the most explosive offensive player in the league by a wide margin but I'm not sure if that should fit the spirit of the award.

But then again, by what metrics are the voters using to gauge who is the MVP? Frankly, I doubt there's any true consideration beyond "Player X got a lot of points and if you remove them from the team they probably miss the playoffs".

I just find it absurd that in the last 70 years we've had two d-men with the award with one of them being arguably the greatest hockey player ever who also managed to be perennially in the Art Ross race (he won 2 of those!).

Why didn't Lidstrom get a nod? How about Chara? Or Hedman?

Voters should have to write a short essay providing some analysis to back up their vote. It'll never happy - I mean, who wants to put actual critical thought into these things, right?

We could also look at the Norris and Selke awards (etc) as subjectively flawed. Ehh... I'm getting myself all worked up about nothing. Subjective based awards are dumb. 😒
- mjones242

I understand what you're saying and not to say there isn't merit to it. I know it's just writer's being biased. LeBron James is arguably the MVP every year he's been in the league. Yet he gets overlooked by other guys who look close enough and whoever votes on it simply doesn't want to give it to LeBron again.

Same happens in hockey. For a good many years you could argue Crosby deserved it or even Lidstrom a fair few times.

My point is, voters suck and should be somehow held accountable to their decision but they are people and people are biased (frank)s. I'm on a tangent here but I fully believe the Smythe was stolen from Kessel in the first cup run because writer's disliked him and wanted to give Sid a Smythe in case he never won another cup/playoffs.