I thought when a team is rebuilding they keep their #1 draft picks and their promising defenseman?

Silly me
- BetweenTheDots

Spot on. Makes me fear for Dach and Reichel. Boqvist, Jokiharju, Terravainen, Danault all gone because Stan did a 180.

Don't see strome as fit in Toronto but anything could happen what the return would be ? He did not help himself last night by taking a lazy penalty and being unnoticeable again.
- Scott1977

I said it in tongue in cheek.....I am not sure if there is a market for Strome right now given what they want back, etc.....think that's why he was scratched to start the year.

Again, i would just rather see a guy like Kurashev play instead of Strome. We all know what Strome is....when he's motivated and playing wing, he can be a decent productive player but that exactly inconsistency is why he's likely going to be on his 3rd team here by year's end......

Spot on. Makes me fear for Dach and Reichel. Boqvist, Jokiharju, Terravainen, Danault all gone because Stan did a 180.
- ObeseOprah

Danault and Teuvo were traded because the window to win cups was open and Hawks had guys in their spots...To dump Bickell it cost Teuvo. To add some grit with Weiss and Fleischman it cost Danault. I have zero issues with an aggressive GM when the window to win is NOW.

Joker...got us Nylander. Has the joker haunted us from dealing him?

Will Boqvist? No idea.....

can't have our cake and eat it to when it comes to past trades. is what it is, just have to trust the organization is making the best decisions, which can be debated but the Hawks don't give a crap what is posted on this board or tweeted at them.....if they did many of us would be employed right now or black listed.....

I thought when a team is rebuilding they keep their #1 draft picks and their promising defenseman?

Silly me
- BetweenTheDots

This is a legit critique.

Even if Jones is not a top 10 defensemen in the league, he's top 30. Perhaps they saw that Boqvist could not keep his head up and was going to be band aid in the training room the rest of his career.

The extra first rounder hurt but only 50% of first round picks play 300 games and it seems to me they are going to load up later round picks and hope to find gems.

Jones can play top minutes against top players, right shot and has a bit of offense.

As for the money, who really cares? Most of the next top 30 dmen will end up exceeding this contract, the cap will rise eventually. If they had him at $7 million I doubt people would be this upset and soon the Cap is going to be $90 million or more.

Tyler Johnson has cleared waivers twice in the last year or so, doubt any team will trade for him and his $5M cap hit that still has two more years to go, but I hope that you’re right.
- Angotti

Solid point thanks.

Do you think the Hawks could get the two 2nd rounders if they retain salary? Tampa couldn't do it but the Hawks have more flexibility at this point.

This is a legit critique.

Even if Jones is not a top 10 defensemen in the league, he's top 30. Perhaps they saw that Boqvist could not keep his head up and was going to be band aid in the training room the rest of his career.

The extra first rounder hurt but only 50% of first round picks play 300 games and it seems to me they are going to load up later round picks and hope to find gems.

Jones can play top minutes against top players, right shot and has a bit of offense.

As for the money, who really cares? Most of the next top 30 dmen will end up exceeding this contract, the cap will rise eventually. If they had him at $7 million I doubt people would be this upset and soon the Cap is going to be $90 million or more.
- stevefrmglencoe

If fans want to be upset at the 180 of rebuild to try to win now....I think that's fair.

The jones drum has been beaten to death. He's here and just have to hope he becomes a viable cog short and long term for this team and gives them a chance to win sooner rather than later.

Boqvist....hope he pans out but like Joker...see if it ever becomes a guy who haunts them.....way too early to call the trade a win for either team.

Danault and Teuvo were traded because the window to win cups was open and Hawks had guys in their spots...To dump Bickell it cost Teuvo. To add some grit with Weiss and Fleischman it cost Danault. I have zero issues with an aggressive GM when the window to win is NOW.

Joker...got us Nylander. Has the joker haunted us from dealing him?

Will Boqvist? No idea.....

can't have our cake and eat it to when it comes to past trades. is what it is, just have to trust the organization is making the best decisions, which can be debated but the Hawks don't give a crap what is posted on this board or tweeted at them.....if they did many of us would be employed right now or black listed.....
- SteveRain

In 1997 at the prospects camp at the Edge I asked Bill Wirtz why the Hawks were having such a bad run drafting and he told me, "Drafting and trading players is like picking horses in a horse race. Not easy to win all the time."

If fans want to be upset at the 180 of rebuild to try to win now....I think that's fair.

The jones drum has been beaten to death. He's here and just have to hope he becomes a viable cog short and long term for this team and gives them a chance to win sooner rather than later.

Boqvist....hope he pans out but like Joker...see if it ever becomes a guy who haunts them.....way too early to call the trade a win for either team.
- SteveRain

Steve is it really a 180? Jones is a young guy who is toward the top of Defensemen in the league. Fluery and Johnson have short contracts. Last night was a decent amount of Borgstrom, Hagel, Entwistle, Jones, Stillman, ADB and Lehtonen. This isn't Calder Bell and Arnason. Isn't the rebuild ongoing as planned?

In 1997 at the prospects camp at the Edge I asked Bill Wirtz why the Hawks were having such a bad run drafting and he told me, "Drafting and trading players is like picking horses in a horse race. Not easy to win all the time."
- stevefrmglencoe

Did he submit an invoice to you for minutes speaking to you?

The numbers could be misleading. The last two games the teams built 3 goal leads and then went into a very defensive posture.
- Ztra

Van didn't have a two goal lead until near the end of the second period and the game was basically tied until the game was half over. Three high danger chances against are still three high danger scoring chances. That's pretty good. The breakdowns still cost them the game, but the narrative by some of chaos and confusion all over the place does not fit the facts the past two games. Also doesn't mean the coach should stay - he may have lost the room, imo.

Danault and Teuvo were traded because the window to win cups was open and Hawks had guys in their spots...To dump Bickell it cost Teuvo. To add some grit with Weiss and Fleischman it cost Danault. I have zero issues with an aggressive GM when the window to win is NOW.

Joker...got us Nylander. Has the joker haunted us from dealing him?

Will Boqvist? No idea.....

can't have our cake and eat it to when it comes to past trades. is what it is, just have to trust the organization is making the best decisions, which can be debated but the Hawks don't give a crap what is posted on this board or tweeted at them.....if they did many of us would be employed right now or black listed.....
- SteveRain

Danault had played a handful of games for us, our scouts had touted him, and we dealt him for two plugs who were out of the league in a year. That’s just horrendous asset management. Even if Danault didn’t turn out to be a stud second line center, we weren’t flush with first rounders or prospects back then. Danault would’ve been more help to us the year we got those two jokes than either fleischman or Weise.

Teuvo was ‘the next wave’ and Stan just HAD to trade him… not TVR, nor any of the other prospects who didn’t turn out to anything, nope he had to trade TT because of the horrendous deal he gave Bickell. A guy who we knew was coattailing with Toews and Kane, gets four by four despite being a fringe middle six guy. Stan digs his own massive holes and then goes ‘well I don’t know how we got here boys but I better sell some of the farm to get out, bye bye Panarin, bye bye Jokiharju and Boqvist’. The last two were guys who got shoved down our throats as ‘the reward for our patience during lost years’. Now we have Nylander, a massive contract that lasts til 2030, and whatever Panarin’s trade tree has turned into (Saad>Zadorov>3rd rounder?).

Lesser blown trades have gotten GMs fired. Stan makes ones that are seared into our memory but we can’t do anything but promote him? Feel like I’m in the Twilight zone or Teump administration, where you can fail your way to the top.

Steve is it really a 180? Jones is a young guy who is toward the top of Defensemen in the league. Fluery and Johnson have short contracts. Last night was a decent amount of Borgstrom, Hagel, Entwistle, Jones, Stillman, ADB and Lehtonen. This isn't Calder Bell and Arnason. Isn't the rebuild ongoing as planned?
- stevefrmglencoe

Valid point...I don't know....is taking minutes away from Delia and Subban and Lankinen right with Fleury?

Johnson taking away minutes from another younger kid?

I honestly don't know what they are doing. I thought it was a rebuild, was fine with that mindset and giving it a few years. That all changed when they got Jones and traded away Boqvist and then acquired Fleury, Johnson, and signed McCabe.

fact that seat for Colliton isn't hot after back to back years of slow starts...as the top 2 longest stretches to start a season without a lead....this year and last year....tells me it's a combination of both trying to win now (playoffs) and trying to win later.....I don't think that combo works very well.....see how it pans out.

Don't need a meeting, when every shift looks the same by every line, yea i do

In life i watch what people do never listen to what they say, like did you know all 50 governors are vaccinated
- BetweenTheDots

The first step in getting better is identifying the problem. Congratulations on your first step.

Did he submit an invoice to you for minutes speaking to you?
- SteveRain

There must have been a tornado going on in that guy's head.

As much as Hawks fans hated him and his BS, I know many people who knew him personally who considered him a thoughtful great guy.

Pulford was always a bully to me whenever I tried to talk to him and once yelled at me from his Mercedes outside of the Palace on Madison when I asked him if I could talk to him.

At a Admirals game in Milwaukee when I had a press pass and tried to talk to him he asked me "Where is this going to be published?" Then proceed to ignore me the rest of the night.

Scotty Bowman, Mike Smith and Brian Burke all thoughtfully answered any question I ever asked them anywhere they were.

Danault had played a handful of games for us, our scouts had touted him, and we dealt him for two plugs who were out of the league in a year. That’s just horrendous asset management. Even if Danault didn’t turn out to be a stud second line center, we weren’t flush with first rounders or prospects back then. Danault would’ve been more help to us the year we got those two jokes than either fleischman or Weise.

Teuvo was ‘the next wave’ and Stan just HAD to trade him… not TVR, nor any of the other prospects who didn’t turn out to anything, nope he had to trade TT because of the horrendous deal he gave Bickell. A guy who we knew was coattailing with Toews and Kane, gets four by four despite being a fringe middle six guy. Stan digs his own massive holes and then goes ‘well I don’t know how we got here boys but I better sell some of the farm to get out, bye bye Panarin, bye bye Jokiharju and Boqvist’. The last two were guys who got shoved down our throats as ‘the reward for our patience during lost years’. Now we have Nylander, a massive contract that lasts til 2030, and whatever Panarin’s trade tree has turned into (Saad>Zadorov>3rd rounder?).

Lesser blown trades have gotten GMs fired. Stan makes ones that are seared into our memory but we can’t do anything but promote him? Feel like I’m in the Twilight zone or Teump administration, where you can fail your way to the top.
- ObeseOprah

OK...but i don't see anyone pining over the dismissal of marko Dano when they traded him for ladd, who was equally as bad in his return and never did much when he signed UFA with NYI...

Revisionist history....aggressive moves to add veteran bottom tiered guys who usually help put teams over the top to win cups....didn't work out.

Teuvo for sure has panned out but was he going to get the top minutes here he got in Carolina?

And for Danault....You had Toews, AA, and Kruger already 1-3 at center....was there room for him? No clue.....

Ship has sailed....I am not and have never been a huge Bowman guy, but hard to criticize a guy when very few trades have blown up in his face LT for this team.....how many other guys did they deal that didn't work out? Kevin hayes who wanted to play NOW....and Panarin who they didn't have cap room for.....

Quick Poll

If there was a gun to your head and you had to say which coach was 20 games under .500 4 years into his career and which coach was 1 game under .500 4 years into his career, Al Arbour or JC. Which one would you pick?

99% of fans would say JC was 20 games under .500 but I think he is 1 game under .500 at this point.

He looked pretty good several months ago when the Hawks upset Edmonton in the bubble, a team with a veteran coach, a retread GM and a lot of top 5 overall draft picks.

I don't want to watch Marc Crawford kicking anyone on our bench. Julien seems like yesterday news. Boudreu didn't look so great without Ovi and Holtby. Some of the stories about Babcock make me uncomfortable. If I would not want a guy coaching my kid, I don't want him coaching the Hawks.

If you remember Q, he was animated on the bench but just like JC he never said a negative word about any player in the papers and was as boring, uninteresting, cliche ridden and disconnected in the post game press conference as JC.

I don't think he's going to be the coach 4 years from now when the rebuild is complete but firing him gives the young players an excuse and safety net. They may think that when things get bad, the coach takes the heat and they get to keep cashing checks as the fans blame the coach and GM for the players not getting better day after day.

Rebuilds are frustrating.
- stevefrmglencoe

Al Arbour inherited a team for its second season in the league, and that was his fourth career season. He had been 2 games over .500 in his three years with the Blues, then 22 games under for that first season with the Isles. After that, 12 straight seasons in the playoffs, with four Cups. Colliton inherited an initially better team that was in the midst of decline from greatness. He has not made the playoffs yet, aside from playing in and losing to Vegas in the first pandemic season. So I would say it's a bit of apples to oranges here. Whether or not the GMs of each respective team had anything do with it, that's certainly a good debate.

As has been discussed, Kane and Toews have two years left on their untradable contracts, and my bet is that this influenced the front office to try to put together a team that could compete now, and hopefully not give up too much on the rebuilding front. If Toews was still shelved, I doubt they make these trades, and they keep on with the rebuild.

Solid point thanks.

Do you think the Hawks could get the two 2nd rounders if they retain salary? Tampa couldn't do it but the Hawks have more flexibility at this point.
- stevefrmglencoe

Too much term left on his contract at this time, maybe next year, but doubt they’ll get two seconds, we’ll see.

Danault had played a handful of games for us, our scouts had touted him, and we dealt him for two plugs who were out of the league in a year. That’s just horrendous asset management. Even if Danault didn’t turn out to be a stud second line center, we weren’t flush with first rounders or prospects back then. Danault would’ve been more help to us the year we got those two jokes than either fleischman or Weise.

Teuvo was ‘the next wave’ and Stan just HAD to trade him… not TVR, nor any of the other prospects who didn’t turn out to anything, nope he had to trade TT because of the horrendous deal he gave Bickell. A guy who we knew was coattailing with Toews and Kane, gets four by four despite being a fringe middle six guy. Stan digs his own massive holes and then goes ‘well I don’t know how we got here boys but I better sell some of the farm to get out, bye bye Panarin, bye bye Jokiharju and Boqvist’. The last two were guys who got shoved down our throats as ‘the reward for our patience during lost years’. Now we have Nylander, a massive contract that lasts til 2030, and whatever Panarin’s trade tree has turned into (Saad>Zadorov>3rd rounder?).

Lesser blown trades have gotten GMs fired. Stan makes ones that are seared into our memory but we can’t do anything but promote him? Feel like I’m in the Twilight zone or Teump administration, where you can fail your way to the top.
- ObeseOprah

All valid points.

Is Danault a differnce maker? LA signed him for $30 million. He is a 10 goal scorer. Are they going to regret that in a couple of seasons? That deal did not work out. Bowman had big balls swung and missed there.

I'm interested in which GM's really got fired after winning 3 Cups for a worse trade than the Panarin one?

All valid points.

Is Danault a differnce maker? LA signed him for $30 million. He is a 10 goal scorer. Are they going to regret that in a couple of seasons? That deal did not work out. Bowman had big balls swung and missed there.

I'm interested in which GM's really got fired after winning 3 Cups for a worse trade than the Panarin one?
- stevefrmglencoe

You have brought some great points. Took ten years after their last cup win for Detroit to let go of Holland.

nice of bowman to sign up for an account.

Al Arbour inherited a team for its second season in the league, and that was his fourth career season. He had been 2 games over .500 in his three years with the Blues, then 22 games under for that first season with the Isles. After that, 12 straight seasons in the playoffs, with four Cups. Colliton inherited an initially better team that was in the midst of decline from greatness. He has not made the playoffs yet, aside from playing in and losing to Vegas in the first pandemic season. So I would say it's a bit of apples to oranges here. Whether or not the GMs of each respective team had anything do with it, that's certainly a good debate.

As has been discussed, Kane and Toews have two years left on their untradable contracts, and my bet is that this influenced the front office to try to put together a team that could compete now, and hopefully not give up too much on the rebuilding front. If Toews was still shelved, I doubt they make these trades, and they keep on with the rebuild.
- 333inthe3rd

Thanks for the comment. Obviously this is the place for apples and oranges comparisons.

Do you really think Kane's contract is untradable? Point a game guy with 3 Cups? Sure the Hawks would either have to take a contract or retain but untradable? I think the Seabrook trade and all of the big contract dumps show that every contract is tradable.

If Kane or Toews ask Bowman for a trade he will make sure they go to a contender. Those guys deserve every penny they got for what they did on the ice, how they turned the franchise around and how great they have been for the league. Every building was packed for Hawks games on the road with transplants and real hockey fans.

The first step in getting better is identifying the problem. Congratulations on your first step.
- mohel

All valid points.

Is Danault a differnce maker? LA signed him for $30 million. He is a 10 goal scorer. Are they going to regret that in a couple of seasons? That deal did not work out. Bowman had big balls swung and missed there.

I'm interested in which GM's really got fired after winning 3 Cups for a worse trade than the Panarin one?
- stevefrmglencoe

This is a really terrible take on what danault brings to a team.

Too much term left on his contract at this time, maybe next year, but doubt they’ll get two seconds, we’ll see.
- Angotti

There is no way they get 2 2nds for Johnson. If anything, they would have to give up one to move him.

You have brought some great points. Took ten years after their last cup win for Detroit to let go of Holland.
- LAHawk

How did that work out? I thank Bowman for all he did for the Hawks. It just may be time to move on. Or at the very least kick him upstairs and find a GM to take that half of his job titles.