There's more than zero risk of lots of things in the world. We're told that the vaccine will make us quite safe from hospitalization and death - if this is not true, why are crowds at the games? The players continue to be at extremely low risk. Let them play if they are not sick.
- mohel

The effectiveness of the vaccines (at least the mRNA vaccines) drops off over time to be at about 60% effective at preventing infection; they retained their very high rate of preventing symptoms, hospitalizations, and death (over 90%).

Boosters increase the effectiveness of those vaccines at preventing infection to back to 85% or 90%.

Fully vaccinated people are 10 times LESS likely to be hospitalized if they acquire Covid, and 11 times LESS likely to die from it, than unvaccinated people.

The issue for fully vaccinated people now is passing an infection (which is still possible to get) on to those who can’t be vaccinated, or won’t be vaccinated.

The league and the PA are looking into whether they should continue testing un-symptomatic vaccinated players or not - apparently, the current protocol agreement ends on November 1. I’m guessing that like the other leagues, they will end the testing for fully vaccinated, un-symptomatic players.

EDIT to fix my middle paragraph.

And, it's not just the players - 99% of whom who will likely be just fine - taking the risk, so are the coaches, the team staff, all the family members. Does the NHL get to decide for all of them what an acceptable level of risk is?
- pdx2ord

Yes. Just like any other employer in the world today. Are the people in the factory allowed to opt out? Are their spouses? There are millions of people working in the same space as others who may be positive without knowing it. Are hockey players special?

Kane has 5pts in 5gms

If only more could be as lackluster

Chicago doesn't deserve superstar players.
- PatShart

That’s isn’t what posters mean. He’s putting up points and isn’t even playing up to his standards yet. You can see that

The effectiveness of the vaccines (at least the mRNA vaccines) drops off over time to be at about 60% effective at preventing infection; they retained their very high rate of preventing symptoms, hospitalizations, and death (over 90%).

Boosters increase the effectiveness of those vaccines at preventing infection to back to 85% or 90%.

Fully vaccinated people are 10 times more likely to be hospitalized if they acquire Covid, and 11 times more likely to die from it, than unvaccinated people.

The issue for fully vaccinated people now is passing an infection (which is still possible to get) on to those who can’t be vaccinated, or won’t be vaccinated.

The league and the PA are looking into whether they should continue testing un-symptomatic vaccinated players or not - apparently, the current protocol agreement ends on November 1. I’m guessing that like the other leagues, they will end the testing for fully vaccinated, un-symptomatic players.
- StLBravesFan

I hope so.

BTW, natural immunity lasts far longer and still doesn't count as vaccinated. Very odd.....

I hope so.

BTW, natural immunity lasts far longer and still doesn't count as vaccinated. Very odd.....
- mohel

https://www.nebraskamed.c...munity-versus-vaccination

And from CDC:

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 because:

Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19.
Vaccination helps protect you even if you’ve already had COVID-19.
Evidence is emerging that people get better protection by being fully vaccinated compared with having had COVID-19. One study showed that unvaccinated people who already had COVID-19 are more than 2 times as likely than fully vaccinated people to get COVID-19 again.

Opposing from an Israeli study:

https://www.science.org/c...vaccination-remains-vital

Yes. Just like any other employer in the world today. Are the people in the factory allowed to opt out? Are their spouses? There are millions of people working in the same space as others who may be positive without knowing it. Are hockey players special?
- mohel

Yes, I'd say it is different in that they are in the only top end professional league in North America and they are under contract (owned by their employer). The office worker, the factory worker can more easily find an equivalent job where they feel the safety protocols are higher or, as in my case (and I know I'm lucky), they can work from home.

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

And from CDC:

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 because:

Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19.
Vaccination helps protect you even if you’ve already had COVID-19.
Evidence is emerging that people get better protection by being fully vaccinated compared with having had COVID-19. One study showed that unvaccinated people who already had COVID-19 are more than 2 times as likely than fully vaccinated people to get COVID-19 again.

Opposing from an Israeli study:

https://www.science.org/c...vaccination-remains-vital
- StLBravesFan

A Washington University study suggested a strong chance of lifetime immunity. If you want to look it up, I'd suggest using DuckDuckGo as the search engine.

They know enough by now that natural immunity lasts longer that the vaccine, which, as you point out, diminishes in effectiveness quickly.

Yes, I'd say it is different in that they are in the only top end professional league in North America and they are under contract (owned by their employer). The office worker, the factory worker can more easily find an equivalent job where they feel the safety protocols are higher or, as in my case (and I know I'm lucky), they can work from home.
- pdx2ord

That's the breaks.....

That factory worker isn't going to find a place that has NHL protocols and safeguards. As they've done since the start, they have to assume the risk or not get paid.

A Washington University study suggested a strong chance of lifetime immunity. If you want to look it up, I'd suggest using DuckDuckGo as the search engine.

They know enough by now that natural immunity lasts longer that the vaccine, which, as you point out, diminishes in effectiveness quickly.
- mohel

Well, it seems that the Nebraska study (from August) and the CDC guidance (from October) suggest differently than the WU study (from May).

All comment I’ve seen says (a) it’s not good to get Covid, (b) better to get immunity from vaccines than to contract Covid and get immunity, (c) vaccination after recovering from Covid provides even more protection.

People die from Covid; people don’t die from vaccines. Vaccines work, even with reduced efficiency against infection (tho not reduced against severe illness and death).

I agree on stopping the testing on players without symptoms. Since the vaccinated are much less like to spread the virus, and the vaccinated are much less likely to receive the virus, and there are so many false positives among players who test negative later on.

That's the breaks.....

That factory worker isn't going to find a place that has NHL protocols and safeguards. As they've done since the start, they have to assume the risk or not get paid.
- mohel

That is sadly correct - people who couldn’t work from home were at much greater risk than blue-collar workers who had to be on the lines.

But now that safe and effective vaccines have been widely available,nifbthe vaccination rate were at the 80% plus level, instead of 57%, the risk would be close to zero.

Those who won’t get vaccinated put those who can’t get vaccinated at greater risk than is necessary, and they put the vaccinated at somewhat greater risk, too.

That is sadly correct - people who couldn’t work from home were at much greater risk than blue-collar workers who had to be on the lines.

But now that safe and effective vaccines have been widely available,nifbthe vaccination rate were at the 80% plus level, instead of 57%, the risk would be close to zero.

Those who won’t get vaccinated put those who can’t get vaccinated at greater risk than is necessary, and they put the vaccinated at somewhat greater risk, too.
- StLBravesFan

We found out just who the real "essential workers" are during this pandemic (and newsflash, it ain't sports and movie stars), and I hope we don't forget.

They were and are the true heroes of this whole thing, and I'm hoping that they can expect better safeguards from the government and from their employers going forward.

That is sadly correct - people who couldn’t work from home were at much greater risk than blue-collar workers who had to be on the lines.

But now that safe and effective vaccines have been widely available,nifbthe vaccination rate were at the 80% plus level, instead of 57%, the risk would be close to zero.

Those who won’t get vaccinated put those who can’t get vaccinated at greater risk than is necessary, and they put the vaccinated at somewhat greater risk, too.
- StLBravesFan

That first sentence didn’t come out right - try again:

People who couldn’t work from home (like blue collar workers who had to be on the lines) were at much greater risk than those of us who could.

Rockford winning or losing is irrelevant to me, this is what I want to hear. Mitchell is sent down, is told what the weak points of his game are and works on them.
- paulr

As badly as the Hogs in general played last night, I found it hard to draw any positives from that game. Maybe I am being more critical than some others, but from my chair it looked like a sound beat down. And that is quite relevant to me because this is the organization that we are drawing our future players from.

The effectiveness of the vaccines (at least the mRNA vaccines) drops off over time to be at about 60% effective at preventing infection; they retained their very high rate of preventing symptoms, hospitalizations, and death (over 90%).

Boosters increase the effectiveness of those vaccines at preventing infection to back to 85% or 90%.

Fully vaccinated people are 10 times more likely to be hospitalized if they acquire Covid, and 11 times more likely to die from it, than unvaccinated people.

The issue for fully vaccinated people now is passing an infection (which is still possible to get) on to those who can’t be vaccinated, or won’t be vaccinated.

The league and the PA are looking into whether they should continue testing un-symptomatic vaccinated players or not - apparently, the current protocol agreement ends on November 1. I’m guessing that like the other leagues, they will end the testing for fully vaccinated, un-symptomatic


players.
- StLBravesFan

Your middle paragraph seems to be in reverse?

Hawks lose by the Tomcat tonight 5-2.

Your middle paragraph seems to be in reverse?
- eagle50

Yes - I screwed up two posts there - I’ll blame it on my wife having knee replacement surgery yesterday and me not getting much sleep.

Yes - I screwed up two posts there - I’ll blame it on my wife having knee replacement surgery yesterday and me not getting much sleep.
- StLBravesFan

I hope that your wife is feeling well and thank you for you sharing your opinion and knowledge here.

I hope that your wife is feeling well and thank you for you sharing your opinion and knowledge here.
- eagle50

She’s fine - it’s such a common procedure among those of a certain age - I almost thought to have one myself just so I’d fit in with out friends….

She’s fine - it’s such a common procedure among those of a certain age - I almost thought to have one myself just so I’d fit in with out friends….
- StLBravesFan

I'm on my way there myself as many years of climbing trees for a living will have a reckoning that will need to be addressed.

She’s fine - it’s such a common procedure among those of a certain age - I almost thought to have one myself just so I’d fit in with out friends….
- StLBravesFan

It’s pretty incredible isn’t it! Thirty years ago people with arthritic knees and hips were basically invalided. And like you said today it’s so common.

I'm on my way there myself as many years of climbing trees for a living will have a reckoning that will need to be addressed.
- eagle50

If the post-surgery is like my wife’s, they’ll have you walking the hospital hall within 4 hours of surgery, home the next day, and encouraged to walk-walk-walk on that 2nd day.

Yes, Mohel, it’s still very early, and the NBA has a roster less than half the size as an NHL roster, but it appears the other United Center tenant has turned things around after making a GM & coaching change.

If the post-surgery is like my wife’s, they’ll have you walking the hospital hall within 4 hours of surgery, home the next day, and encouraged to walk-walk-walk on that 2nd day.
- StLBravesFan

Wow wow wow I may be 60 but I'm still climbing...lol

And I take your point.

Detroit plays in Montreal tonight, so the Red Wings will be on the 2nd of a road back to back tomorrow night.

Hopefully the Hawks can get an early lead. Perhaps both the Habs and Hawks get their 1st W against the Wings.