Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Oct 25 @ 10:30 AM ET
Well the good news for you guys is that I cannot imagine a scenario where Matthews stops scoring.
Marner looks way more fragile since last playoffs, I really feel like the whole thing has affected his game. But he's still ultra talented so he's bound to bounce back eventually.... - Scabeh
Yeah, I kind of feel this way too about Marner. I feel like he's "broken" and has lost some confidence and his ability to read the game (always his biggest strength) seems to have been compromised.
Something a sports psychologist may help with?
Again, I don't know (frank) all, but that's what it appears to be from what I've seen on the ice this year. Confidence issues and, as a result, fighting the puck in compensation.
Location: The Slovakian Jagr, QC Joined: 02.25.2007
Oct 25 @ 10:34 AM ET
Yeah, I kind of feel this way too about Marner. I feel like he's "broken" and has lost some confidence and his ability to read the game (always his biggest strength) seems to have been compromised.
Something a sports psychologist may help with?
Again, I don't know (frank) all, but that's what it appears to be from what I've seen on the ice this year. Confidence issues and, as a result, fighting the puck in compensation.
He needs to find his mojo again, ASAP! - mjones242
Yup, these guys aren't machines.
I remember Mackinnon saying he hired a sports psychologist before his career really took off.
And I know the sample size is small, but holy crap does Drouin look better so far after getting help.
Marner is one of the most talented players in the league, he'll turn it around and I'm hoping he gets all the help needed to do that as soon as possible.
As long as he keeps not scoring in the playoffs, he's got my support.
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Oct 25 @ 10:37 AM ET
So you are saying they have been in a 5 year slump? Played poorly for 5 years and had poor results?
To me that's just not accurate - they have had both success and slumps over the past 5 years, some of what we perceive to the the reasons why they have had slumps may be the same over that time.
I didn't see the things you are talking about against San Jose - agreed I saw them all and then some vs the Pens hence why I said flush that game and move on.
I get the frustration, I'm frustrated too & totally get that the amount of patience required to wait for them to learn how to play the right way, for a full game the majority of the time may be too much of an ask for some. I also get that this group may never fully learn that without changes but I'm willing to more patient for a bit longer.
I feel like the fact they had some success earlier than anticipated by most (like when they made the playoffs earlier than predicted and/or absolutely lit it up in the regular season) made the players who have been around for all of that believe they had most of it figured out already and that has hurt them.
They haven't failed enough to have learned (again IMO) that they have to do things the right way, the majority of the time if they want long term success. Babcock was supposed to teach them that but then he went a bit rogue and now he's gone (I think he had to go but again my opinion).
I'm not sure if Keefe is the guy they will listen to or not, I hope so but if not and they continue to not have success I don't see a coaching change as the big "shake up" move, nor even a GM change (right away). If the player make up is the issue they will address that and perhaps also those who created that issue (Dubas) but we will see how this all shakes out. - Cush29
the frustration comes from watching the same guys, make the same mistakes year in, year out. That's why I don't think it's only limited to a 6 game slump..
So far they beat Ottawa, and just barely beat Montreal.. These should be the easy games to win..
In all honesty, I don't think it's a coach or a GM issue.. This is on the players.. They are all talented, but talent only gets you so far... Seems like right now, the work ethic is not matching the skill level.
I don't know how the guys making 10.9M are being outplayed by the guys making $750k...
I'm not gonna go full panic just yet, there is still a lot of hockey left... Something needs to change within that group though and hopefully soon or Carolina will destroy them tonight..
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Oct 25 @ 10:40 AM ET
man he got his payday and has done nothing since..maybe the biggest letdown for me ever.
was hoping the leafs drafted him in 2015, bought a Marner jersey shortly after...ah well.. enjoy the millions mitch - senstroll
Marner is in his 6th season now and is still making rookie mistakes. That lazy penalty Saturday night (Kerfoot did it as well). I know he's an ultra talented guy, but come on.. You can be making the same bad plays you did at 18, when you're 24 yrs old..
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON Joined: 08.11.2011
Oct 25 @ 10:41 AM ET
Yup, these guys aren't machines.
I remember Mackinnon saying he hired a sports psychologist before his career really took off.
And I know the sample size is small, but holy crap does Drouin look better so far after getting help.
Marner is one of the most talented players in the league, he'll turn it around and I'm hoping he gets all the help needed to do that as soon as possible.
As long as he keeps not scoring in the playoffs, he's got my support. - Scabeh
I'm all for it.. If he needs help, or to speak to someone. Absolutely, he should.. Take all the time he needs...
Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Oct 25 @ 10:43 AM ET
Yup, these guys aren't machines.
I remember Mackinnon saying he hired a sports psychologist before his career really took off.
And I know the sample size is small, but holy crap does Drouin look better so far after getting help.
Marner is one of the most talented players in the league, he'll turn it around and I'm hoping he gets all the help needed to do that as soon as possible.
As long as he keeps not scoring in the playoffs, he's got my support. - Scabeh
Sports psychology certainly did work wonders on Mac as he went from draft bust to perhaps the 2nd best player in the league. Pretty clearly, there were some mental blocks that prevented him from tapping into his full potential.
Happy to see Drouin has made some strides this year. Ultra talented guy that I feel has been fighting himself since he came into the league. Wondering if Tampa really mishandled his development and tried to play things too hardball(puck?).
With Marner, I feel like a mental block is building pretty quickly. He just doesn't look as magical on the ice in the (admittedly) small sample set we've seen with him this pre- and regular season. I think each playoff game against the Habs and the relentless criticism from fans and media started building a wall that has prevented him from being his usual best self.
Location: Living rent free... in your head, ON Joined: 09.20.2010
Oct 25 @ 10:51 AM ET
It's good to know we have so many prop gun and movie making experts on this thread. - AdamFrench
I use to work on sets many years ago (although no hollywood sets) and I like to stay up to date with some film related items.
Weird, what this thing called "research" can provide a person with.
Location: Living rent free... in your head, ON Joined: 09.20.2010
Oct 25 @ 10:53 AM ET
Heard anything interesting thing. In any shot involving a gun, even one where the gun is to be pointed at the camera, everyone is supposed to be cleared from the arc of where the gun tracks. The camera is preset and the camera person isn’t behind the camera. - Canada Cup
They are if they have a plexiglass sheild.
However, no live rounds are ever used in that type of shot,......well most shots
Location: Who Owzzzzz da' Chiefs?, ON Joined: 12.22.2014
Oct 25 @ 10:58 AM ET
the frustration comes from watching the same guys, make the same mistakes year in, year out. That's why I don't think it's only limited to a 6 game slump..
So far they beat Ottawa, and just barely beat Montreal.. These should be the easy games to win..
In all honesty, I don't think it's a coach or a GM issue.. This is on the players.. They are all talented, but talent only gets you so far... Seems like right now, the work ethic is not matching the skill level.
I don't know how the guys making 10.9M are being outplayed by the guys making $750k...
I'm not gonna go full panic just yet, there is still a lot of hockey left... Something needs to change within that group though and hopefully soon or Carolina will destroy them tonight.. - PatC80
Interesting points, I agree some players are still making the same mistakes but some (like Willy) are showing that they are growing and becoming more well rounded players.
Matthews showed in the playoffs last year what I thought was a much more balanced focus on offense and defense and I hope to see that carry over into this year. Marner seems to have regressed and as many have pointed out maybe it's him feeling the pressure, maybe that combined with the new new PP 'role' who knows but he doesn't look like the Marner we have seen in past years right now.
You have to wonder if accountability is the major issue here and the players at the top end of the pay scale not really being held accountable to perform by the coaching staff? Sure the media and fans try to hold them accountable but it's Toronto so it's washed over really and the reality is in today's world of social media etc. what fanbase or media source actually has the ability to hold players accountable?
The only real tool a coach has is ice time but you have to wonder if Keefe would get support from up the chain if he moved Spezza up a line or 2 and bumped the non-performing stars down or even benched a star for a period as a wake up call? I mean if the only people saying you have to be better are the crazy Toronto media and fans on social media and hearing that is the only consequence to not changing how motivated are you really?
I would like to say none of that matters because they are motivated internally to win a cup but I'm not seeing that right now. Sometimes fear is the motivator that is needed, fear of being embarrassed because you have been bumped to the 3rd or 4th line or stapled to the bench for a full period....maybe?
I mean poor Garnie who correctly points out that his long necked hero gets to ride the pine if he makes one small mistake.....maybe the level of accountability needs to be alot closer to even no matter what your salary and / or role on the team is? I sure don't think that culture exists on this team and I'm not sure when it last existed on a Leafs team? If I had to guess it would probably have been under the 2 big Irish guys who ran the teams and coincidentally had success (Burns and Quinn).
I'm also very aware that this isn't the 'norm' for the way teams are run anymore and upsetting star players and/or not treating them differently than the 4th line plugs isn't generally something teams do.....but maybe they need to give that a try?
How do teams like Tampa create that accountability? I think we know how the Hawks did it when they were rocking and rolling......coach Q demanded and got accountability, so does Captain Serious.
Location: Living rent free... in your head, ON Joined: 09.20.2010
Oct 25 @ 10:59 AM ET
No joke... If the Leafs had the same injury excuse as the Habs, how bad would it be?
Where would the Leafs be this year without Campbell or Rielly? Matthews came back from injury and Leafs are 0-2-1 with only 5 goals scored since.. A 39 yr old is our best player and Muzzin has started to show signs of decline.
it's not all doom and gloom, but they need to wake up soon. - PatC80
Honestly, without Rielly, so far I dont think the leafs would be any worse at all.
Without campbell and Mrazek....well we may not have any wins.
