Has there been any actually word that they have a firm "no" to replacement?

Or is it just there is no evidence to support getting replacement where there is evidence to support fusion?
- DirtyDan

The "evidence" that the Sabres are using is precedence. This, combined with a leading ADR doctor not recommending the surgery is why we are where we are.

As we all know, even the best doctors in the world are occasionally wrong in their diagnosis and predictions of outcomes, which is what the base of the grievance will be.

Again, the grievance would provide evidence that the Sabres should allow the surgery. The basis is set in the team not having his best interests in mind. Providing evidence that the surgery is just as or less of a short and long term risk as fusion can then be akin to, say, a high ankle sprain. Team says rehab, player says surgery, provides proof surgery is ok, and grievance process forces team to allow surgery.

Of course, the entire case hinges on evidence that his surgery should be accepted.
- TheSabresTaco

if this were nhl-pioneering surgery on a journeyman player making $1m or so, i don't think there's much of a squabble...but jack's a 50 million dollar man

You are right in that aspect, but that doctor has to be agreed upon by the team. Jack went out and got doctors to agree with him, it's his body they have no affiliation with the CBA, so they say yes to him. This could be huge for the Doctor who does this first Disc Replacement of a pro player. Jack isn't gonna be the last hockey player to have a herniated disc. Money Money Money 💰
- Buff36

That is medical malpractice.

Well a nice little West Coast trip for some team bonding. And maybe a Jack Eichel luggage drop off.

I agree with you here.

What if and this is just for conversation sake.

Both the Sabres and Eichel get creative with how they approach this?

The Sabres agree to let him have his surgery of choice, if and only if, Eichel waives his NTC completely...

That way he can get his surgery, show he is healthy and is moved where ever Adams gets the best deal.

My thoughts are a trade like this will be extremely tough to pull off mid season. Not to mention there is no "hard deadline" of July 1st like there was with ROR.

It could work out for both sides.
- Stripes77

point taken, but i don't think jack ever dons a sabres sweater again

I agree with you here.

What if and this is just for conversation sake.

Both the Sabres and Eichel get creative with how they approach this?

The Sabres agree to let him have his surgery of choice, if and only if, Eichel waives his NTC completely...

That way he can get his surgery, show he is healthy and is moved where ever Adams gets the best deal.

My thoughts are a trade like this will be extremely tough to pull off mid season. Not to mention there is no "hard deadline" of July 1st like there was with ROR.

It could work out for both sides.
- Stripes77

Good thoughts, but I still don't see the main conflict changing. The Sabres are worried about protecting the value of their asset and their main concern is (presumably) making sure that their asset doesn't lose value. This scenario does not alleviate this concern in any way.

if this were nhl-pioneering surgery on a journeyman player making $1m or so, i don't think there's much of a squabble...but jack's a 50 million dollar man
- Michael Pachla

correct.

You're not going to treat that apartment grade floor lamp the same as an original Tiffany lamp.

The "evidence" that the Sabres are using is precedence. This, combined with a leading ADR doctor not recommending the surgery is why we are where we are.

As we all know, even the best doctors in the world are occasionally wrong in their diagnosis and predictions of outcomes, which is what the base of the grievance will be.
- TheSabresTaco

I see I see.

My real question was though.

Is the Doctor not recommending because there is no evidence to support or because he thinks the best route is fusion?

Im sure none of us know the real answer here

ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
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4m
Deshaun Watson reportedly has waived his no-trade clause only for the Dolphins, but that could easily change if a deal with the Dolphins doesn't get done.
- Stripes77

im surprised anyone is willing to take him on.. i get it he is a hell of a QB but the optics aren't good

two words: kevin everett
- Michael Pachla

Absolutely, dr. Cap would be the #1 witness if this was a criminal case.

When you have the #1 expert on your payroll, the Sabres would be foolish to listen to outside noise.
They pay him for his opinion....

Why would the pegulas pay not to listen to their expert?

The nhl can't overrule this situation. Anyone hoping for that is mistaken IMO.

point taken, but i don't think jack ever dons a sabres sweater again
- Michael Pachla

I know people are saying if he gets the ADR he will be playing again in 3 months, I just don't see that being the case. I think it's still season ending. Say he starts skating again and training hard, teams will be see that and be more up to making a move for him.

Just my thoughts, there are so many variables here and I don't think an end is in sight (at least with the Sabres)

correct.

You're not going to treat that apartment grade floor lamp the same as an original Tiffany lamp.
- TheSabresTaco

well said

I see I see.

My real question was though.

Is the Doctor not recommending because there is no evidence to support or because he thinks the best route is fusion?

Im sure none of us know the real answer here
- DirtyDan

Without truly knowing the answer, based on all information released, the leading ADR Dr. doesn't believe the ADR is appropriate for Jack.

That is medical malpractice.
- TheSabresTaco

Could be, but how do you prove that. Might be the right surgery or it might not be. Jack could come back a 100% or 2 games in take a cross check to the back area and the disc pops out or shifts.

point taken, but i don't think jack ever dons a sabres sweater again
- Michael Pachla

he gone


never again

too many bridges burned

Without truly knowing the answer, based on all information released, the leading ADR Dr. doesn't believe the ADR is appropriate for Jack.
- TheSabresTaco

Thanks

im surprised anyone is willing to take him on.. i get it he is a hell of a QB but the optics aren't good
- SabresFaninIndiana

This is the city that wants him:

I know people are saying if he gets the ADR he will be playing again in 3 months, I just don't see that being the case. I think it's still season ending. Say he starts skating again and training hard, teams will be see that and be more up to making a move for him.

Just my thoughts, there are so many variables here and I don't think an end is in sight (at least with the Sabres)
- Stripes77

Wideman wasn't cleared for physical activity for 5 1/2 months after his replacement.

Wideman wasn't cleared for physical activity for 5 1/2 months after his replacement.
- Buff36

This is exactly why I think no matter what surgery he gets it is still season ending.


The sooner he gets the surgery the sooner he is "healthy"

Again, the grievance would provide evidence that the Sabres should allow the surgery. The basis is set in the team not having his best interests in mind. Providing evidence that the surgery is just as or less of a short and long term risk as fusion can then be akin to, say, a high ankle sprain. Team says rehab, player says surgery, provides proof surgery is ok, and grievance process forces team to allow surgery.

Of course, the entire case hinges on evidence that his surgery should be accepted.
- TheSabresTaco

This is well described taco... 🛎

How many independent doctors reports and/or "testimony " are needed to overturn the CBA?

Then, how many doctors are more respected than the #1 guy in the spine/neck field?

Just not seeing any ruling going Jack's way.

Too many hurdles, and jack eichel knows jack eichel isnt gonna win. It's a black eye on jack eichel , caused by jack eichel. Jack eichel will not like jack eichels result of the objections... IMO.

That's why they havent gone this route....

This is exactly why I think no matter what surgery he gets it is still season ending.


The sooner he gets the surgery the sooner he is "healthy"
- Stripes77

or he can sit on his thumbs for another 7 or 8 months

This is well described taco... 🛎

How many independent doctors reports and/or "testimony " are needed to overturn the CBA?

Then, how many doctors are more respected than the #1 guy in the spine/neck field?

Just not seeing any ruling going Jack's way.

Too many hurdles, and jack eichel knows jack eichel isnt gonna win. It's a black eye on jack eichel , caused by jack eichel. Jack eichel will not like jack eichels result of the objections... IMO.

That's why they havent gone this route....
- Boss34

if either of his agents, current or former, thought eichel would have had at least a shot of winning medical arbitration it would have already happened IMO

Q meeting with Bettman tomorrow in NYC

Could be, but how do you prove that. Might be the right surgery or it might not be. Jack could come back a 100% or 2 games in take a cross check to the back area and the disc pops out or shifts.
- Buff36

If I say, hey, 36, I see here you want pain pills. Sure, here's some hydros.

If I provide those pain pills without proving you need them, and it is the best course of action (probably not regardless but just for example), I could get sued for malpractice, especially if something happens to you.

These doctors will not blindly say yes. With a case this high profile and under contention, saying the wrong thing is career suicide. They need to prove their case, which I am sure they have.

I agree with you here.

What if and this is just for conversation sake.

Both the Sabres and Eichel get creative with how they approach this?

The Sabres agree to let him have his surgery of choice, if and only if, Eichel waives his NTC completely...

That way he can get his surgery, show he is healthy and is moved where ever Adams gets the best deal.

My thoughts are a trade like this will be extremely tough to pull off mid season. Not to mention there is no "hard deadline" of July 1st like there was with ROR.

It could work out for both sides.
- Stripes77

Very creative ref.

This could work, maybe he waives this July as the Ntc, punts it for 1 more season.

In season trade most definitely include some retention of salary IMO ....

which contending team would be able to eat 10 million, even prorated this season?

Vegas?