Well if York or Zamula are not better than Seeler we are really in trouble -- literally we have no prospects and an aging (not gracefully) team
- mr4tno

York and bobby brink were awesome picks by cf, do not question them. Zamula was undrafted so of course, he needs to be seasoned like granma's cast iron skillet.

You have a lot to learn around here

Jake shootout winner and 2 assists tonight
- DaveofYork

i'll take atkinson's goals instead of someone that passes on a 2-0 break away

You're absolutely wrong about not giving Ristolainen a fair shake. I'm a Flyers fan through and through. I have always supported the team. I'm not going to pretend like you are that he's a good player. So far he has been exactly what he was described as a player. He's the same mediocre player here that he was in Buffalo. I'm praying that he improves because with his play along with Sanhiem, the 2nd pair is a disaster.
- MJL

If his play and sandhiem is a disaster, why do are you critical of RR 95% of the time and Travis 5%....seems to show your bias

Risto was fine last night, got called for a BS interference penalty in the 2nd but otherwise won most of his puck battles and once again covered well in the slot area.
- jd250

Disagree. I thought his puck decisions were weird. Pushing the puck into no man's land several times. Not getting the puck out of the zone.
I'm not judging him yet. He can get better. But I thought he stood out in a bad way.

Disagree. I thought his puck decisions were weird. Pushing the puck into no man's land several times. Not getting the puck out of the zone.
I'm not judging him yet. He can get better. But I thought he stood out in a bad way.
- therabbi

Honestly I didn't notice that in his game. Risto IMO is the best puck battler on the team, and the best slot coverage defenseman they have. I see forwards changing what they are going to do because they see they are up against Risto, and there are not many defenseman that can do that (one other was Chara in his prime). Is Risto perfect, of course not? But for a guy that has such poor metrics, you would think his +/- would be on pace to be as bad as say Sanheim's was last year at -22, but alas with no points yet, Risto is only a -1 in 7 games. Sure, when Risto is out there he gives up more shots than other defenseman, but this is COMPLETELY due to the amount of D-zone starts he has taken, some games its upwards of 70%! Even if you are 50/50 on faceoffs, the other team is getting the puck in the Flyers' zone and getting shots. That is not on Risto. This is why you need to watch the games!

York and bobby brink were awesome picks by cf, do not question them. Zamula was undrafted so of course, he needs to be seasoned like granma's cast iron skillet.

You have a lot to learn around here
- corduroy

Brink can't skate ... and I don't care how much heart he has, if you cant skate, you can't play!

The conclusion I drew from the facts to understand why Seeler was on the PK are not based on metrics.
- MJL

OK, in your opinion why was Seeler on the PK?

You're absolutely wrong about not giving Ristolainen a fair shake. I'm a Flyers fan through and through. I have always supported the team. I'm not going to pretend like you are that he's a good player. So far he has been exactly what he was described as a player. He's the same mediocre player here that he was in Buffalo. I'm praying that he improves because with his play along with Sanhiem, the 2nd pair is a disaster.
- MJL

Here's the thing, I really never watched Risto play because the only times I watched the Sabres is if they played the Flyers which is not that often. I also didn't know he was on the Flyers radar so I was very surprised when Fletcher traded for him. Therefore I had really no bias coming into this season. I didn't read anything about him, and like I said didn't watch him play. Now I am watching him, every shift of every game, and I really don't see the player you and apparently others before you are describing.

Laughton is a solid checking center who can chip in offensively but he's not a playmaker. That line just hasn't finished. Not sure who we is but Lindblom is what he is. He is still the same hard forechecking, strong in puck battles with 20 goal skill that he was before his illness. Comparing Lindblom to Patrick is hysterical. Patrick was not engaged and played passively on the perimeter. You say you watch the games? Proof positive and explains why you think Ristolainen is great.
- MJL

I was comparing Oscar to Patrick only in regards to points! But you said it, that line is just not finishing. Oscar does work hard and skate hard, but I really don't see a 20 goal scorer here. From what I see he's just another 4th line player unfortunately.

Last game was not good outside of Carter Hart. Silver lining they are on pace for 105 points.

Have to win on Tuesday. I would not mind moving JVR up to play with the first line. TK does not finish enough.

Well if York or Zamula are not better than Seeler we are really in trouble -- literally we have no prospects and an aging (not gracefully) team
- mr4tno

York and Zamula are only 21 years old and most defenseman, not all, take a few years to develop. From what I've seen from York he will be a very good NHL player. This is a big development year for Zamula, he needs to add some bulk and show he play with the big boys.

I was comparing Oscar to Patrick only in regards to points! But you said it, that line is just not finishing. Oscar does work hard and skate hard, but I really don't see a 20 goal scorer here. From what I see he's just another 4th line player unfortunately.
- jd250

an expensive 4th liner. He was on pace for over 20 goals before he went down, tricky contract to negotiate that wouldve been

Getting 4 out of 6 points on a Western Canada road trip is more than acceptable. After winning the first two games they simply had no interest in playing in Calgary and essentially mailed the game in. That is not acceptable.

A few players are playing very well. Giroux, Atkinson, Couturier. Other guys are still searching. Not impressed with Ristolainen at all. Small sample yes, but early returns are not promising. Hopefully they are smart enough not to make a bad trade worse by giving him a big contract.

Honestly I didn't notice that in his game. Risto IMO is the best puck battler on the team, and the best slot coverage defenseman they have. I see forwards changing what they are going to do because they see they are up against Risto, and there are not many defenseman that can do that (one other was Chara in his prime). Is Risto perfect, of course not? But for a guy that has such poor metrics, you would think his +/- would be on pace to be as bad as say Sanheim's was last year at -22, but alas with no points yet, Risto is only a -1 in 7 games. Sure, when Risto is out there he gives up more shots than other defenseman, but this is COMPLETELY due to the amount of D-zone starts he has taken, some games its upwards of 70%! Even if you are 50/50 on faceoffs, the other team is getting the puck in the Flyers' zone and getting shots. That is not on Risto. This is why you need to watch the games!
- jd250

The first thing you need to do is figure out how to compute the percentage of defensive zone starts a player gets. You have been consistently wrong about that. To an embarrassing degree.

Ristolainen is the only Flyers defenseman whose GF% at 5 on 5 is under 50% at a paltry 33.33%. That means when he is on the ice, the opposition is scoring the goals at a 67% clip. Scoring chances for when Ristolainen is on the ice is 32.50%. Which means the opposition is getting 67.5% of the scoring chances. High danger chances for is 39.39. In 5 games the Flyers have scored 2 goals and given up 4 goals when he is on the ice at 5 on 5.

Now to be fair all of this is not just the result of Ristolainen's play. His defense partner and his most frequent linemates have not done a good job overall. Ristolainen however has not done anything, nor does he seem capable of changing that in any way. He is not the difference make that you give up the draft picks that they did to acquire him. Nor is he worth the contract he'll get in the future.

The single biggest reason why he is only a -1 is goaltending.

You state that you don't have a bias but yet you are completely absolving Ristolainen for blame for the amount of shots and scoring chances the opposition gets when he is on the ice.

OK, in your opinion why was Seeler on the PK?
- jd250

It's not an opinion.

Braun was in the penalty box. Unavailable obviously.
Provorov and Ristolainen took the first shift of that kill on the Monahan goal. They changed. That left for the next shift on the PK, Sanheim, Seeler and Yandle. Yandle doesn't play on the PK and hasn't in years. That's why Sanheim and Seeler were out there. All of this information can be found in the game summary and the shift charts.

Here's the thing, I really never watched Risto play because the only times I watched the Sabres is if they played the Flyers which is not that often. I also didn't know he was on the Flyers radar so I was very surprised when Fletcher traded for him. Therefore I had really no bias coming into this season. I didn't read anything about him, and like I said didn't watch him play. Now I am watching him, every shift of every game, and I really don't see the player you and apparently others before you are describing.
- jd250

Where do I begin. So all Summer long when you were praising the acquisition and calling him a defenseman who checks all the boxes you were making it up?


It doesn't surprise me that you don't see the reality. That is by definition a bias.

I was comparing Oscar to Patrick only in regards to points! But you said it, that line is just not finishing. Oscar does work hard and skate hard, but I really don't see a 20 goal scorer here. From what I see he's just another 4th line player unfortunately.
- jd250

Oskar Lindblom is 2nd on the Flyers in scoring chances with 40. Laughton leads the team with 41. In comparison, Couturier has 36, Giroux 34 and Atkinson has 29. Lindblom is 2nd on the team with high danger scoring chances for with 20, Laughton leads with 21. In comparison, Couturier has 12, Giroux 13 and Atkinson 11. That line as a whole is generating scoring chances but just hasn't finished. That is not the work of 4th line players. You can argue that they don't have the finishing ability of the other players and I would agree but they have been effective.

Oskar Lindblom is 2nd on the Flyers in scoring chances with 40. Laughton leads the team with 41. In comparison, Couturier has 36, Giroux 34 and Atkinson has 29. Lindblom is 2nd on the team with high danger scoring chances for with 20, Laughton leads with 21. In comparison, Couturier has 12, Giroux 13 and Atkinson 11. That line as a whole is generating scoring chances but just hasn't finished. That is not the work of 4th line players. You can argue that they don't have the finishing ability of the other players and I would agree but they have been effective.
- MJL

This is why I have always considered Laughts a 4th line player. He has hands of stone. Yes, he gets his chances, but he buries very few. I hope Lindblom picks it up cause I have more hope for him as a finisher, but I lost all hope for Laughts to ever be a finisher a looooong time ago.

This is why I have always considered Laughts a 4th line player. He has hands of stone. Yes, he gets his chances, but he buries very few. I hope Lindblom picks it up cause I have more hope for him as a finisher, but I lost all hope for Laughts to ever be a finisher a looooong time ago.
- Phillywhiteout

Yep, some people think we win games by scoring chances.

Oskar Lindblom is 2nd on the Flyers in scoring chances with 40. Laughton leads the team with 41. In comparison, Couturier has 36, Giroux 34 and Atkinson has 29. Lindblom is 2nd on the team with high danger scoring chances for with 20, Laughton leads with 21. In comparison, Couturier has 12, Giroux 13 and Atkinson 11. That line as a whole is generating scoring chances but just hasn't finished. That is not the work of 4th line players. You can argue that they don't have the finishing ability of the other players and I would agree but they have been effective.
- MJL

As you like to say it is a results oriented business. The results suck. Laughton 7 or 8 points last 44 games or so. Such a key player.

Oskar Lindblom is 2nd on the Flyers in scoring chances with 40. Laughton leads the team with 41. In comparison, Couturier has 36, Giroux 34 and Atkinson has 29. Lindblom is 2nd on the team with high danger scoring chances for with 20, Laughton leads with 21. In comparison, Couturier has 12, Giroux 13 and Atkinson 11. That line as a whole is generating scoring chances but just hasn't finished. That is not the work of 4th line players. You can argue that they don't have the finishing ability of the other players and I would agree but they have been effective.
- MJL

What is the difference between a top 6 forward and a bottom 6 forward in the NHL? One can bury his chances, the other can't! Thank you for proving my point. If the NHL ever changes the outcomes of games based on scoring chances instead of goals, that will be good news for Oscar and his friends!

This is why I have always considered Laughts a 4th line player. He has hands of stone. Yes, he gets his chances, but he buries very few. I hope Lindblom picks it up cause I have more hope for him as a finisher, but I lost all hope for Laughts to ever be a finisher a looooong time ago.
- Phillywhiteout

Laughton's ES scoring totals have been very solid over the years. Scoring at a high clip as a 3rd line player.

Last year Laughton scored 16 points in 5 on 5 play. For comparison, Hayes score scored 20 and Konecny scored 21.

in 19/20, Laughton score 25 points in 5 on 5 play. For comparison, Hayes scored 25, Giroux 26 and Konecny 33.

Where do I begin. So all Summer long when you were praising the acquisition and calling him a defenseman who checks all the boxes you were making it up?


It doesn't surprise me that you don't see the reality. That is by definition a bias.
- MJL

There you go again, putting words in my mouth. The only thing I posted all summer about the RR acquisition is I didn't care what he did in Buffalo playing for the worst team in the league, and all that mattered is how he played for the Flyers this year. I also posted that I liked the trade because RR added an element this team desperately needed and I stand by that statement. I also was not concerned about giving up the picks or a marginal NHL defenseman. This "checks all the boxes" comment you keep saying, I really don't know where it comes from.

What is the difference between a top 6 forward and a bottom 6 forward in the NHL? One can bury his chances, the other can't! Thank you for proving my point. If the NHL ever changes the outcomes of games based on scoring chances instead of goals, that will be good news for Oscar and his friends!
- jd250

LOL. We have data for Lindblom going back to before he had his illness which you are apparently overlooking. Lindblom scored 17 goals in the 81 games during the 18/19 season which indeed showed that he has some finishing ability.

Scoring chances are important data to look at because they are a good indicator in how well a line is playing.

There is only one thing that was proven here.

Laughton's ES scoring totals have been very solid over the years. Scoring at a high clip as a 3rd line player.

Last year Laughton scored 16 points in 5 on 5 play. For comparison, Hayes score scored 20 and Konecny scored 21.

in 19/20, Laughton score 25 points in 5 on 5 play. For comparison, Hayes scored 25, Giroux 26 and Konecny 33.
- MJL

I think you need an intervention, you are drunk on advanced metrics