I am not sure it makes sense to sit around to wait and assume Sanderson, JBD, and Thompson can step in a become legit options. That's a lot of pressure on rookies. This organization has sat around and waited for other promising d-men to come along to only have them flop and try to duct tape the defence together after or during the fact. Ceci, Cowen, Weircioch, Runblad, Wolanin, etc.

Zub is a prime example of a cheap option that worked out. Didn't cost assets to acquire. If he didn't work out, nothing lost. Dorion also has cap space and assets available should no reasonable signings be available.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Mann has said it over and over, JBD and Thomson arent ready for the NHL, so why rush them he said. He said a dman needs to be overbaked as he says, not rushed!! He wants those 2, to develop down there. Sanderson wont be here until April, so the answer has to come from within, Brannstrom or make a traded.

who cares about Gambrell coming out of the lineup.....the 4th line was good last night, no issues with sandford-shaw-watson at all

the issue with this team is, and will continue to be on the backend.
- sensarmy_11

The point to my question is that DJ benches guys like Formention or Stutzle for a mistake, but doesn't use the same logic for his defense when he could try other things. Then he takes Gambrell out of the line up for what reason? The point is, he has no consistency in his message. Dylan was fine in his first 2 games, so what message are you sending to the locker room? Actions speak louder than words as they say!

...one of the issues.
We don't win a lot of face offs.

Gustavson looked amazing....so I look to the coach to probably send him to ECHL for some conditioning.
- Octavarium

I've been harping with the stats in my blog since Game 1 about the faceoff issues, some nights are worse than others too!

Brown, Mete, Zaitsev all continue to drag us down. It was unbelievable to see Brown shovel the puck from the corner to the front of the net in the 3rd. Jimmy Stu got got trying to do a little too much, but he had a solid all around game apart from that. Not a fan of him and Tkachuk being out there together in OT, I think that they both need to play with someone a bit more defensive minded to insulate them. Be nice to get Pinto back, so we have another quicker center.
- GoSensGo71

Agreed on Stu and Brady not being together in OT! Too much ice, like you said someone defensive minded. Split up Brown and Paul in OT!

Just looking at the boxscores of tonight's game, Stepan has 2 goals now in Carolina lol
Ben Harpur is a regular with the Preds on the blueline, Boro out upper-body injury but had played the first 7 games this year in Nashville!

The point to my question is that DJ benches guys like Formention or Stutzle for a mistake, but doesn't use the same logic for his defense when he could try other things. Then he takes Gambrell out of the line up for what reason? The point is, he has no consistency in his message. Dylan was fine in his first 2 games, so what message are you sending to the locker room? Actions speak louder than words as they say!
- Kevin Francis

This is a really great discussion point.Do you coach a player relative to his skill potential or is it based on what he does in any game or shift.

In terms of where the Sens are at, maybe you need two standards. If a poorer player (Watson) gives you a good effort and game you are positive. But, if Formenton gives you the same game (as Watson) you are likely disappointed.

Suppose you are a math teacher and you have a poorer student who struggles. He scored 65% on a recent test, right on target with his normal performance. You also have the really bright kid who leads the class in math. He typically scores in the 95% plus range. But on this test he also got 65%. Is the performance really the same?

Eichel traded for Krebs, Tuch, a first and a third.

Should Ottawa have tried to beat that, assuming he'd have been traded in the divisio?

Eichel traded for Krebs, Tuch, a first and a third.

Should Ottawa have tried to beat that, assuming he'd have been traded in the divisio?
- david22

Beat me to the post. Am I alone to think that is an underwhelming package considering all the drama this summer about "asking price"?

Looks like Krebs is a reasonable prospect but so was Glass, Brannstrom, and Suziki once upon a time. Granted Suziki is a decent top 6 option, just not Eichel level.

Tuch is a wash, the 1st is a wash with Vegas likely to have a decent season (and I think it's top 10 protected?) and the 3rd is a throw in.

Really feeling like there was a lack of due diligence on the Eichel sweepstakes, not just from an Ottawa perspective but league-wide perspective. Unless the injury stuff was a giant red flag, very odd day.

Beat me to the post. Am I alone to think that is an underwhelming package considering all the drama this summer about "asking price"?

Looks like Krebs is a reasonable prospect but so was Glass, Brannstrom, and Suziki once upon a time. Granted Suziki is a decent top 6 option, just not Eichel level.

Tuch is a wash, the 1st is a wash with Vegas likely to have a decent season (and I think it's top 10 protected?) and the 3rd is a throw in.

Really feeling like there was a lack of due diligence on the Eichel sweepstakes, not just from an Ottawa perspective but league-wide perspective. Unless the injury stuff was a giant red flag, very odd day.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I am already concerned that Ottawa has gone too long in the deal for Brady. They will run out of cap space very quickly. I don't think Eichel was ever a fit.

I am with ya! It's amazing how he does the same thing each year, yet he gets a 3 year contract extension, unreal!
As for Stutzle, ya he has to start putting pucks to the net. Too much perimeter hockey.
- Kevin Francis

I agree, the perimeter hockey is what worries me about this kid. He's bigger and stronger and has NHL experience but I don't see any growth in his game. He's got elite skills but it doesn't always translate into an elite game.

The point to my question is that DJ benches guys like Formention or Stutzle for a mistake, but doesn't use the same logic for his defense when he could try other things. Then he takes Gambrell out of the line up for what reason? The point is, he has no consistency in his message. Dylan was fine in his first 2 games, so what message are you sending to the locker room? Actions speak louder than words as they say!
- Kevin Francis

so who should have come out then?

Shaw, who's been with the org for a few years, is the Captain of your AHL team, and who the teammates love?

Formenton, who's played awesome?

should they have just left Watson in the press box?

someone had to come out......they can't bench Josh Brown to inject Watson.

Gambrell was the logical, and probably correct choice of people to come out.

it seems like your complaining for the sake of complaining on that one....without any real thought behind your complaint

Beat me to the post. Am I alone to think that is an underwhelming package considering all the drama this summer about "asking price"?

Looks like Krebs is a reasonable prospect but so was Glass, Brannstrom, and Suziki once upon a time. Granted Suziki is a decent top 6 option, just not Eichel level.

Tuch is a wash, the 1st is a wash with Vegas likely to have a decent season (and I think it's top 10 protected?) and the 3rd is a throw in.

Really feeling like there was a lack of due diligence on the Eichel sweepstakes, not just from an Ottawa perspective but league-wide perspective. Unless the injury stuff was a giant red flag, very odd day.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

it's underwhelming compared to the ridiculous return sabres fans thought they were going to get.

to be honest though, considering his contract, his serious health concerns, and the fact that he is almost sure to not play this season......i think they got a solid return

I think Vegas is (frank)ed moving forward.....they're going to be in an even worse position than the leafs with their cap......they're gonna have to play with 3 lines and 5 dmen cuz it's all they'll be able to fit under the cap.......it's not like they have any prospects left on ELCs to inject into the lineup.

it's underwhelming compared to the ridiculous return sabres fans thought they were going to get.
to be honest though, considering his contract, his serious health concerns, and the fact that he is almost sure to not play this season......i think they got a solid return
- sensarmy_11

Sabres fans were delusional... much like Senators fans were delusional about the expected Karlsson return. However, I'm not sure I would refer to Krebs, Tuch, a protected 1st, and a 2nd-for-a-3rd pick upgrade as a "solid return". Krebs is a decent #2C/LW prospect, Tuch could be a mediocre 2nd line RW on a non-playoff team, and they got an insulated 1st round pick. Maybe I'm underestimating Krebs, but I refuse to believe there weren't better offers than that on the table during the summer, when a far larger number teams had options, cap space, and could have salvaged most of the season.

CBJ had apparently been the rumored "3rd team" involved with the VGK offer, so I'm wondering if it's possible that Dorion had been working more on the CGY deal? The obvious target would have been Monahan, if they needed to balance money... and it still may be an idea in play, given that CGY will need cap space freed up to resign both Tkachuk/Gaudreau. Despite the Flames having a good record, Monahan is having a complete $hit start to the year, which could also potentially work in Dorion's favor. He wouldn't be my preferred option, but I think it's becoming increasingly necessary to give Stutzle a semi-competent offensive C to play with.

Understatement du jour:
Ice Chips: Sens' Zaitsev not 100 per cent, out vs. Vegas
https://twitter.com/SunGa...tatus/1456272580780826627

Yeah, he sure as $hit isn't 100%. Also, Pinto is apparently back skating, but won't be seeing game action for a while yet.

Sabres fans were delusional... much like Senators fans were delusional about the expected Karlsson return. However, I'm not sure I would refer to Krebs, Tuch, a protected 1st, and a 2nd-for-a-3rd pick upgrade as a "solid return". Krebs is a decent #2C/LW prospect, Tuch could be a mediocre 2nd line RW on a non-playoff team, and they got an insulated 1st round pick. Maybe I'm underestimating Krebs, but I refuse to believe there weren't better offers than that on the table during the summer, when a far larger number teams had options, cap space, and could have salvaged most of the season.
- khawk

to be fair, i said it was a solid return CONSIDERING his health, contract, availability, etc


also, the fact that buffalo didn't have to take a bad contract back to make this work is remarkable......that in and of itself is another asset they've obtained, cap and $$ savings.

i honestly doubt there was a better return than that, which didn't involve the sabres taking on a "zaitsev type contract". considering they're already saddled with 15mil of skinner/okposo crap, not having anohter albatross deal is probably in their best interest.

it's underwhelming compared to the ridiculous return sabres fans thought they were going to get.

to be honest though, considering his contract, his serious health concerns, and the fact that he is almost sure to not play this season......i think they got a solid return

I think Vegas is (frank)ed moving forward.....they're going to be in an even worse position than the leafs with their cap......they're gonna have to play with 3 lines and 5 dmen cuz it's all they'll be able to fit under the cap.......it's not like they have any prospects left on ELCs to inject into the lineup.
- sensarmy_11

They will be able to move bodies and money around before Eichel is inserted in the lineup to affect the cap.

Vegas is going for it now and why wouldn't they? If they win a cup this year or next, no one will really care about a few down years due to contracts. A lot of teams in this league should use Vegas as an example of maxing out return on prospects for established players rather than assuming every prospect they have is a future hall of famer.

to be fair, i said it was a solid return CONSIDERING his health, contract, availability, etc

also, the fact that buffalo didn't have to take a bad contract back to make this work is remarkable......that in and of itself is another asset they've obtained, cap and $$ savings.

i honestly doubt there was a better return than that, which didn't involve the sabres taking on a "zaitsev type contract". considering they're already saddled with 15mil of skinner/okposo crap, not having anohter albatross deal is probably in their best interest.
- sensarmy_11

Well, I suppose if you just accept the complete idiocy of waiting past the entire off-season to make this trade, including all of the negative press that it generated, then I guess the Sabres did okay. However, I don't agree that better deals weren't on the table earlier... the Sabres were just too busy crowing about how they controlled the process, had many interested teams there were, and counting out-loud how many 1st-round-quality assets they were expecting in return. That is, until they waited so long that they suddenly found themselves in a situation where Eichel was going to file a formal grievance with the NHLPA, which in-turn forced the Sabres to make this trade at one of the worst possible times.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/...ion-sabres-isnt-resolved/

Plus, the goal of this kind of trade should really be asset quality, not asset volume or short-term cost-savings... especially when they're now officially boasting a 3rd-round to their rebuild process, and aren't going anywhere for at least 2-3yrs. The Karlsson trade wasn't a success because they got 7 pieces, it was a success because Norris developed FAR better than expected, and they somehow managed to get a #3-overall lottery pick from a team that was 1-year removed from a Conference Finals appearance. So if a Zaitsev-type contract puts a better primary young asset in the deal or brings in a 2nd quality young prospect, then you take the Zaitsev-type contract, and do your best to moderate it with a 3rd team inclusion.

Well, I suppose if you just accept the complete idiocy of waiting past the entire off-season to make this trade, including all of the negative press that it generated, then I guess the Sabres did okay. However, I don't agree that better deals weren't on the table earlier... the Sabres were just too busy crowing about how they controlled the process, had many interested teams there were, and counting out-loud how many 1st-round-quality assets they were expecting in return. That is, until they waited so long that they suddenly found themselves in a situation where Eichel was going to file a formal grievance with the NHLPA, which in-turn forced the Sabres to make this trade at one of the worst possible times.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/...ion-sabres-isnt-resolved/

Plus, the goal of this kind of trade should really be asset quality, not asset volume or short-term cost-savings... especially when they're now officially boasting a 3rd-round to their rebuild process, and aren't going anywhere for at least 2-3yrs. The Karlsson trade wasn't a success because they got 7 pieces, it was a success because Norris developed FAR better than expected, and they somehow managed to get a #3-overall lottery pick from a team that was 1-year removed from a Conference Finals appearance. So if a Zaitsev-type contract puts a better primary young asset in the deal or brings in a 2nd quality young prospect, then you take the Zaitsev-type contract, and do your best to moderate it with a 3rd team inclusion.
- khawk

Why do people always assume there must have been a better deal available if a trade happens in which they don’t like the return. I mean, I’m. It saying GMs are infallible, obviously they aren’t….but I can’t imagine that anyone being paid millions to run a pro sports team will look at multiple deals and NOT take the best one.

Eichel is having a surgery that has NEVER been had by a pro hockey player. There is real risk that be won’t be the same player. The return was never going to be what a healthy Eichel would get. If there were better offers available that’s who Eichel would be playing for……so obviously there weren’t better returns.

The point to my question is that DJ benches guys like Formention or Stutzle for a mistake, but doesn't use the same logic for his defense when he could try other things. Then he takes Gambrell out of the line up for what reason? The point is, he has no consistency in his message. Dylan was fine in his first 2 games, so what message are you sending to the locker room? Actions speak louder than words as they say!
- Kevin Francis

I would guess he is trying to teach stutzle .who will be around for a long time. The backend in 2 years will be almost completely different. Not much teaching is needed for temporary players

Why do people always assume there must have been a better deal available if a trade happens in which they don’t like the return. I mean, I’m. It saying GMs are infallible, obviously they aren’t….but I can’t imagine that anyone being paid millions to run a pro sports team will look at multiple deals and NOT take the best one.

Eichel is having a surgery that has NEVER been had by a pro hockey player. There is real risk that be won’t be the same player. The return was never going to be what a healthy Eichel would get. If there were better offers available that’s who Eichel would be playing for……so obviously there weren’t better returns.
- sensarmy_11

There are very few teams able to take on a $10m cap hit for multiple years. It is a hard deal to do. Ottawa will have to spend half their cap (around $45m) 3 years out on 6 players including Tkachuk, Chabot, Norris, Stutzle, Sanderson and a goaltender that can stop pucks. They are going need to get Pinto, Zub, Formenten, JBD, Thompson. Grieg, Connor Brown and Paul to sign new contracts at a reasonable number. They already have White and Batherson at nearly $5m each. Other young teams also see the writing on the wall. Really good players will get paid once they complete their entry level deals. If young teams with deep prospect pools want to keep their young talent they need to avoid (like poison) taking on rich contracts.


There are very few teams that could make sense out an Eichel trade.

Vegas is desperate. They now have 3 players on LTIR with close to a $30m cap hit. These players (Stone, Paccioretti and Eichel) have a combined total of 2 goals on the season. I think Vegas knows they either win now (this year or next) or they transform into the expansion team they have avoided being for the first five years of their existence.

Why do people always assume there must have been a better deal available if a trade happens in which they don’t like the return. I mean, I’m. It saying GMs are infallible, obviously they aren’t….but I can’t imagine that anyone being paid millions to run a pro sports team will look at multiple deals and NOT take the best one.

Eichel is having a surgery that has NEVER been had by a pro hockey player. There is real risk that be won’t be the same player. The return was never going to be what a healthy Eichel would get. If there were better offers available that’s who Eichel would be playing for……so obviously there weren’t better returns.
- sensarmy_11

That's pretty much the definition of a logical fallacy. Nobody is suggesting the Vegas deal wasn't the best one on the table on Nov. 4th, 2021. The problem is that you're assuming that the Sabres' expectations have been consistent the whole time, that Eichel's perceived trade value among other NHL GM's has remained static the entire time, that there have always been the same number of competing teams interested, and that this trade process has operated within an unchanging context of external pressures such as public opinion, media pressure, and potential legal action and/or formal grievances. However, not one of those things is true.

Even just the switch to having Pat Brisson as the agent involved was potentially a major influencer on the eventual outcome. Plus, there's pretty solid evidence that the Sabres have been playing a continuous game of retreat on their expectations over the past several months, including changing their stated asking price, making medical information more readily available, being willing to include conditional assets, and even the relative urgency with which the negotiations were conducted. Meanwhile, other teams were operating under their own timelines for making roster decisions and preparing for the season.

So I don't find it hard at all to believe that at least one NHL GM likely made an objectively better offer 3-4 months ago, when the Sabres expected the moon, had all kinds of other teams interested, believed there would be better offers coming, were dealing with a less-experienced agent, and thought they had all the time in the world to finalize a deal.

OTT getting their ass beat by another team with they best players not playing....

OTT getting their ass beat by another team with they best players not playing....
- Mithos

Same players making the same mistakes, yet Brannstrom need to stay in the AHL! Its unreal! Mete is a disaster too, to go with MDZ.

Same players making the same mistakes, yet Brannstrom need to stay in the AHL! Its unreal! Mete is a disaster too, to go with MDZ.
- Kevin Francis

maybe Dorion can trade for another geriatric Dman....

Mete must have a personal grudge against Gus the way he leaves him hanging.