Jake has Sid back, he's going to score a lot more often now. We just found out what a lot of people assumed, he can't drive offense on his own, but that's OKAY. Not a lot of Wingers can, still having an elite scoring winger at 5v5 is as valuable as ever. Trading that for a defenseman is laughable lol.
- j.boyd919

It's weird that you love Letang so much yet I suggest trading for a guy who is basically a young Kris Letang (might end up better) and it is laughable.

Jake is awesome but so is Girard. Over the next 5 years, Girard is growing into his prime while Jake is going to be fading out. My comment was purely on the basis of us retooling over the next 1-2 years.

It's weird that you love Letang so much yet I suggest trading for a guy who is basically a young Kris Letang (might end up better) and it is laughable.

Jake is awesome but so is Girard. Over the next 5 years, Girard is growing into his prime while Jake is going to be fading out. My comment was purely on the basis of us retooling over the next 1-2 years.
- MacPatty

I don't find making one hole (elite scoring winger) to "fill" another hole (solid top pairing Dman) that you intentionally create to be smart asset management.

I also don't think retooling over next 1-2 years is smart either. If the plan is to retool over the next 1-2 years, the Sid era is done. Pens should be maximizing every season until he retires and then tear it all down.

If the goal is to move on from Letang, who do you replace him with at RD? Marino? Not sure if that's the move. I like Marino but don't know if I see him as a top RD.

Not to mention Girard is 5'10" 170 lbs. Not sure if I want someone like that clearing the front of the net.

Jokes on you, Pens don't believe in prospects.
- j.boyd919

That's fair. Wait til Crosby, Malkin and Letang are traded for nothing. Ohhh you will know soon enough.

That's fair. Wait til Crosby, Malkin and Letang are traded for nothing. Ohhh you will know soon enough.
- glove_was_stuck

Kind of like Jagr?

Jake has Sid back, he's going to score a lot more often now. We just found out what a lot of people assumed, he can't drive offense on his own, but that's OKAY. Not a lot of Wingers can, still having an elite scoring winger at 5v5 is as valuable as ever. Trading that for a defenseman is laughable lol.
- j.boyd919

Trading him for a dman is loony tunes. I agree with you and I'm fine with hight-end passengers. I just wonder if at this point in Sid and Geno's career they need a team with a different dynamic than they're used to. I'm not saying this specifically in regards to Jake, but in general.

Trading him for a dman is loony tunes. I agree with you and I'm fine with hight-end passengers. I just wonder if at this point in Sid and Geno's career they need a team with a different dynamic than they're used to. I'm not saying this specifically in regards to Jake, but in general.
- Rinosaur

I think that they need more talented finishers. They have too many bottom 6 guys imo. Don't even think the dynamic has to change, or even the system/coach. They need guys who can bury the puck.

I think that they need more talented finishers. They have too many bottom 6 guys imo.
- j.boyd919

I agree, but I still wonder if a different dynamic to some degree is needed. In an attempt to not sound like Grinder or others who simply want to bring in gorillas on this team, I do wonder if they also need some more physically imposing players are capable of finishing. Rust IMO fits the mold of what this team needs more of. Not that he's physically imposing, but he does use his body when needed and has zero issues powering his way to the net.

i.e., would a JT Miller-type be a better fit at this point than Jake, or a Hornqvist-type over Kapanen.

I just think back to the Kunitz/Dupuis era which is very different than the players now. I felt players like those made life easier for Sid.

I agree, but I still wonder if a different dynamic to some degree is needed. In an attempt to not sound like Grinder or others who simply want to bring in gorillas on this team, I do wonder if they also need some more physically imposing players are capable of finishing. Rust IMO fits the mold of what this team needs more of. Not that he's physically imposing, but he does use his body when needed and has zero issues powering his way to the net.

i.e., would a JT Miller-type be a better fit at this point than Jake, or a Hornqvist-type over Kapanen.

I just think back to the Kunitz/Dupuis era which is very different than the players now. I felt players like those made life easier for Sid.
- Rinosaur

This is where I feel like the Pens lineup isn't balanced correctly why trading Horny and acquiring Zucker and Kap IMO were poor deals.

Simon has 4 points in 9 games. Boyle has 2 points in 14 games. Check the stats.
- j.boyd919

There is no logical way you can have Simon over Boyle in the lineup if you’re hoping for all the lower end guys to chip in offensively. Boyle isn’t tough or hard to play against but he will put in more goals than Simon over the course of a season. That is a fact.

There is no logical way you can have Simon over Boyle in the lineup if you’re hoping for all the lower end guys to chip in offensively. Boyle isn’t tough or hard to play against but he will put in more goals than Simon over the course of a season. That is a fact.
- Grinder47

lol ok dere bud. Keep strokin' the poopty players.

This is where I feel like the Pens lineup isn't balanced correctly why trading Horny and acquiring Zucker and Kap IMO were poor deals.
- j.boyd919

Right, and I think the Pens are missing those elements. I mean look, if they can move Zucker for that kind player then great, but we all know that won't happen, but if moving Jake brings in that JT Miller level player, it might shift the dynamic of this team.

My gripe with this team over the last few years is the perimeter play. Yes, the Pens had plenty of HD chances las season, but they still rarely had players who really just directed play to the crease. Players who will make those power moves on a regular basis. Players who will get in faces of goalies.

I think this team needs to be shifted to a team that gets as many garbage goals as they do fancy goals. We regularly see the too many passes looking for that perfect play, and maybe they're just not capable of that to the degree they were.

There is no logical way you can have Simon over Boyle in the lineup if you’re hoping for all the lower end guys to chip in offensively. Boyle isn’t tough or hard to play against but he will put in more goals than Simon over the course of a season. That is a fact.
- Grinder47

The only fact is that we have no idea what Boyle's scoring ability is as a whole just yet. Simon has one goal in 9 games and Boyle has two goals in 14 games.

Right, and I think the Pens are missing those elements. I mean look, if they can move Zucker for that kind player then great, but we all know that won't happen, but if moving Jake brings in that JT Miller level player, it might shift the dynamic of this team.

My gripe with this team over the last few years is the perimeter play. Yes, the Pens had plenty of HD chances las season, but they still rarely had players who really just directed play to the crease. Players who will make those power moves on a regular basis. Players who will get in faces of goalies.

I think this team needs to be shifted to a team that gets as many garbage goals as they do fancy goals. We regularly see the too many passes looking for that perfect play, and maybe they're just not capable of that to the degree they were.
- Rinosaur

I agree they need crease crashers but not at the expense of their elite scoring winger.

Right, and I think the Pens are missing those elements. I mean look, if they can move Zucker for that kind player then great, but we all know that won't happen, but if moving Jake brings in that JT Miller level player, it might shift the dynamic of this team.

My gripe with this team over the last few years is the perimeter play. Yes, the Pens had plenty of HD chances las season, but they still rarely had players who really just directed play to the crease. Players who will make those power moves on a regular basis. Players who will get in faces of goalies.

I think this team needs to be shifted to a team that gets as many garbage goals as they do fancy goals. We regularly see the too many passes looking for that perfect play, and maybe they're just not capable of that to the degree they were.
- Rinosaur

I agree they need crease crashers but not at the expense of their elite scoring winger.

Oof madon we are bad.

F Fleury
- Reverend Killtaker

I agree 100% He could have been a GOD but it never turned out that way

I agree they need crease crashers but not at the expense of their elite scoring winger.
- j.boyd919

Again, I'm not suggesting anything specific, just that if there is the opportunity, depending on the return you explore many options. I still think this team is capable as-is, but just seeing the need for some dynamic shifts.

I agree 100% He could have been a GOD but it never turned out that way

- broncohorvath

Yeah he's just a Vezina winner, 3 time stanley cup champion, 5 time stanley cup finalist, 4 time NHL all-star, and a sure bet Hall of Famer.

Edit: Forgot, he's 3rd all time in wins by a goalie in NHL history behind Brodeur and Roy.

I agree they need crease crashers but not at the expense of their elite scoring winger.
- j.boyd919

One thing to consider though is how much more can Crosby score if he doesn't have to be the first guy in the corner doing all of the dirty work.

I think you also need to consider whether Jake actually fits the bill for an elite scoring winger. I think he is incredibly smart and good at finding open ice but he has relied pretty heavily on Crosby to be successful. He is also not a great on the defensive side of the puck either. He might be a top 30 winger but he is going to start fading down that list the next couple years.

If I had the choice of Prime Kunitz vs Prime Jake, I take Kunitz all day long. Even if he was never an "Elite Scorer".

Yeah he's just a Vezina winner, 3 time stanley cup champion, 5 time stanley cup finalist, 4 time NHL all-star, and a sure bet Hall of Famer.

Edit: Forgot, he's 3rd all time in wins by a goalie in NHL history behind Brodeur and Roy.
- j.boyd919

Dude is worse than Sammy.

One thing to consider though is how much more can Crosby score if he doesn't have to be the first guy in the corner doing all of the dirty work.

I think you also need to consider whether Jake actually fits the bill for an elite scoring winger. I think he is incredibly smart and good at finding open ice but he has relied pretty heavily on Crosby to be successful. He is also not a great on the defensive side of the puck either. He might be a top 30 winger but he is going to start fading down that list the next couple years.

If I had the choice of Prime Kunitz vs Prime Jake, I take Kunitz all day long. Even if he was never an "Elite Scorer".
- MacPatty

He's definitely an elite goal scoring talent. Not even a question. You don't have to drive a line by yourself to be an elite scorer. You'd be hard pressed to find wingers that drive their lines play given the responsibilities of a center are always greater.

All of the elite scoring wingers have great setup guys.
Kucherov has Point
Pasta and Marchy have Bergeron
Ehlers has Scheifele
Ovi has Backstrom and Kuzy

Don't think Kuch or Ovi would be as successful with Erod or Jeff Carter as their center.

I'd probably say Mark Stone and Artemi Panarin are the only wingers that are the driving forces on their lines. Other than that I'd say most of the elite wingers are elite because they are complimentary to their centers.

As for the Kunitz vs. Jake argument. I would prefer to have both on Sid's line. A "Jake" to finish and a "Kunitz" to dig pucks. I think that's what his line is missing right now.

- TurdFergeson

Lives in Alberta, goes for the Golden Knights and calls himself Turd on the internet. Interesting.

Lives in Alberta, goes for the Golden Knights and calls himself Turd on the internet. Interesting.
- MattStrat

- TurdFergeson

Explanation of the name/character wasn't needed here. RIP Norm