I can tell the Leafs are good defensively by watching the games. Campbell has been good too, but not prime Hasek or anything

Pierre Engvall (LW, #47) — Speaking of the difference between the player you want to see and the player you’re actually seeing, it’s time to talk about Pierre Engvall.

Few players confound me more than him. He’s scored at a third-line rate throughout his career, doesn’t allow many chances against when he’s on the ice, and yet, you find yourself yelling at the TV every time he touches the puck.

Maybe our eyes are deceiving us with the 6’5 giraffe? Maybe we want him to be more and he just is. He “is” a third-line NHL forward, which tend to be guys who frustrate you (see Kerfoot, Alex).

If I can give Engvall credit for the things he can do — getting his long stick on pucks on the forecheck, using his speed to transport the puck up the ice, while staying above his man in all three zones — I’d probably appreciate him much more.

But I can’t do that.

I keep seeing the player who makes the wrong decision with his great tools and it drives me insane. It drives Sheldon Keefe insane. Is this a bias in player evaluation or is there genuinely more value to extract out of Engvall? I wish I knew the answer.


per Mapleleafhotstove...Couldn't have said it better myself

The expected goals against, or basically the number of high danger chances we give up, are not nearly as rosy. We are near the bottom of the league. So it's a bit of a mirage that we are great defensively. However it's indisputable we are getting outstanding goaltending.
- fifty__missions

Well to be fair those same stats show the Leafs are far and ahead of every other team at high danger chances FOR. Third most in Against.

Could be some happy trigger fingers on the stats counter.

Was at the game. Was waiting for that big save from Campbell so I could hear a loud "Soup" chant. Never happened...They didnt give them anything all game.
- Santo_44

I watched the game and heard the "SOUP" chant on multiple occasions and he did make some very big saves.

Perhaps when that happened you were off in the concourse getting some sushi?

I watched the game and heard the "SOUP" chant on multiple occasions and he did make some very big saves.

Perhaps when that happened you were off in the concourse getting some sushi?
- Cush29

You could hear the chant at least slightly on basically every save...He had one pretty good save in the 3rd that was decently loud.

But I was also at the Leafs/Caps playoff game and the Freddy chants after a big save were what I was hoping for...probably would have gotten it if he had a breakaway save.

Pierre Engvall (LW, #47) — Speaking of the difference between the player you want to see and the player you’re actually seeing, it’s time to talk about Pierre Engvall.

Few players confound me more than him. He’s scored at a third-line rate throughout his career, doesn’t allow many chances against when he’s on the ice, and yet, you find yourself yelling at the TV every time he touches the puck.

Maybe our eyes are deceiving us with the 6’5 giraffe? Maybe we want him to be more and he just is. He “is” a third-line NHL forward, which tend to be guys who frustrate you (see Kerfoot, Alex).

If I can give Engvall credit for the things he can do — getting his long stick on pucks on the forecheck, using his speed to transport the puck up the ice, while staying above his man in all three zones — I’d probably appreciate him much more.

But I can’t do that.

I keep seeing the player who makes the wrong decision with his great tools and it drives me insane. It drives Sheldon Keefe insane. Is this a bias in player evaluation or is there genuinely more value to extract out of Engvall? I wish I knew the answer.


per Mapleleafhotstove...Couldn't have said it better myself
- Santo_44

What drives me nuts about him is that he routinely gets himself into opportunities to score based on his hockey IQ and good play but then it's like someone unplugs the remote as soon as he is striking distance to get a goal.

The other 3rd line guys to some degree also I guess (although last couple games they seem to kind of figured it out) but I expect less from them because i don't view them as skilled and 'smart' a player as Giraffe.

Honestly if he was more of a plug with much less skill he would be loved so much more, it's like he is on the edge of being so much more and just can't get over the hump but has all the tools to do it. THAT'S what is frustrating because every once in awhile he makes you believe he can! lol

We'll thats a quick turnaround, and is awesome. Justin Bourne, who is kind of an analytics freak, was talking recently about how we were like 26th in xga.
- fifty__missions

Tricky stats per 60 (change count to rate)...

#2 in XGF
#12 XGA
#2 in XGF% which essentially just relates the XGF to the XGA ...

So lots of expected goals for and middle of the pack expected goals against.

You could hear the chant at least slightly on basically every save...He had one pretty good save in the 3rd that was decently loud.

But I was also at the Leafs/Caps playoff game and the Freddy chants after a big save were what I was hoping for...probably would have gotten it if he had a breakaway save.
- Santo_44

Fair - I was at the playoff game where Freddy made the desperation, paddle save reaching back and the chant was deafening and it was amazing a la "Eddie Eddie Eddie" times.

I wish the chant was "Soupy, Soupy, Soupy" instead of "Sooooooooooooooup" because all that does (for me) is make me think of Vancouver and Louuuuuuuu and to the uninitiated make them think we are booing our own.

I can tell the Leafs are good defensively by watching the games. Campbell has been good too, but not prime Hasek or anything
- Zezel

Campbell has been good when he's needed to be.. the one thing I like is that when we need a big save in a close game, that he's been able to make that save for us.. Last nights game was a good example.. After the Rangers made it 2-1 and were putting more pressure, Campbell was able to make some big saves.. (specifically, the save on Trouba's slapshot with a partial screen in front)

What drives me nuts about him is that he routinely gets himself into opportunities to score based on his hockey IQ and good play but then it's like someone unplugs the remote as soon as he is striking distance to get a goal.

The other 3rd line guys to some degree also I guess (although last couple games they seem to kind of figured it out) but I expect less from them because i don't view them as skilled and 'smart' a player as Giraffe.

Honestly if he was more of a plug with much less skill he would be loved so much more, it's like he is on the edge of being so much more and just can't get over the hump but has all the tools to do it. THAT'S what is frustrating because every once in awhile he makes you believe he can! lol
- Cush29

Yeah I have lost some hope for him. If he is going to keep doing what he does he can't be a 3rd liner come playoffs and he doesn't bring enough energy for the 4th line.

Where his career is projecting is to a team like Arizona who can give him undeserving top 6 mins to put up some points.

Campbell has been good when he's needed to be.. the one thing I like is that when we need a big save in a close game, that he's been able to make that save for us.. Last nights game was a good example.. After the Rangers made it 2-1 and were putting more pressure, Campbell was able to make some big saves.. (specifically, the save on Trouba's slapshot with a partial screen in front)
- PatC80

Sign him now or price goes up. They are going to lean on him this year, get it done!

The expected goals against, or basically the number of high danger chances we give up, are not nearly as rosy. We are near the bottom of the league. So it's a bit of a mirage that we are great defensively. However it's indisputable we are getting outstanding goaltending.
- fifty__missions

This sounds vaguely familiar to me......getting red hot goaltending so the defensive warts don't appear so problematic until they are come playoff time.

Circa Freddy's first 2 years and some of his 3rd year here.

They need to tweak the D I think because you have to assume at some point all players who are on a heater will come down to earth and play at an average level (goalies included) for some period of time.

Fair - I was at the playoff game where Freddy made the desperation, paddle save reaching back and the chant was deafening and it was amazing a la "Eddie Eddie Eddie" times.

I wish the chant was "Soupy, Soupy, Soupy" instead of "Sooooooooooooooup" because all that does (for me) is make me think of Vancouver and Louuuuuuuu and to the uninitiated make them think we are booing our own.
- Cush29

I just like a good goalie chant...Haven't had a consistent one like this in forever. It adds a lot to the atmosphere of the game when most of the atmosphere comes from scoring chances and goals.

I can tell the Leafs are good defensively by watching the games. Campbell has been good too, but not prime Hasek or anything
- Zezel

Team eye test! I'm on your team!! 😍

I can tell the Leafs are good defensively by watching the games. Campbell has been good too, but not prime Hasek or anything
- Zezel

Here's a sound test, nice rock steady cover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQFKMar4x-w

I can tell the Leafs are good defensively by watching the games. Campbell has been good too, but not prime Hasek or anything
- Zezel

Yeah we don't seem to be turning over the puck so much in our end and getting hemmed in. The few odd man rushes the other way Campbell has made great positional saves.

Yeah we don't seem to be turning over the puck so much in our end and getting hemmed in. The few odd man rushes the other way Campbell has made great positional saves.
- Drapz

Agree, that last ten minutes was not without some significant pressure. Rangers are a good team and they have a couple of excellent young goalies. Great win for the buds.

Agree, that last ten minutes was not without some significant pressure. Rangers are a good team and they have a couple of excellent young goalies. Great win for the buds.
- winsix

Muzzin not clearing the puck was the cause of a few moments of panic but he did deflect that last shot on net so I suppose all is forgiven.

Sign him now or price goes up. They are going to lean on him this year, get it done!
- winsix

Have to hope he continues to play as well as he has been.

One of the biggest surprises for me is Campbell.. I did not expect him to lead the league in save %

We'll thats a quick turnaround, and is awesome. Justin Bourne, who is kind of an analytics freak, was talking recently about how we were like 26th in xga.
- fifty__missions

Maybe 5v5

I was looking at all situations and per/60 because some teams have played less/more.

Muzzin not clearing the puck was the cause of a few moments of panic but he did deflect that last shot on net so I suppose all is forgiven.
- Cush29

Muzzin has not played like a top four defender. I think it is up to the coach to manage his ice time better. Reducing his icetime by 2 or 3 minutes a game may allow him to play much better IMO.

I can tell the Leafs are good defensively by watching the games. Campbell has been good too, but not prime Hasek or anything
- Zezel

Campbell .944

Hasek best season .937

Campbell > Hasek, its science

Muzzin has not played like a top four defender. I think it is up to the coach to manage his ice time better. Reducing his icetime by 2 or 3 minutes a game may allow him to play much better IMO.
- winsix

Muzz takes a beating, but at least he hangs onto the puck long enough to usually make a good play or try rather then just throwing it down the ice for an icing.

Last 3 years he’s 3rd in the league in hits taken

I wonder how long he’ll be able to handle this.

I had soft chocolate chip cookies and a bagel with egg, bacon, cheese and boston lettuce for breakfast.

Today is going to be a good.

(Except for putting the ski storage bin on truck and raking leaves part lol)

Campbell .944

Hasek best season .937

Campbell > Hasek, its science
- senstroll