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Forums :: Blog World :: Carol Schram: Jim Benning has few answers as the Canucks carry on, hosting the Jets
Author Message
Jkuzzi
Joined: 12.14.2016

Nov 20 @ 11:56 AM ET
Green has ruined at least 4 , JB has traded away at least 4.

Plus traded away quite a few picks that could have been.

- manvanfan


I don't think thats fair to say. It may be true it may not we don't know. We've had 3 calder finalists I think since he's been here and it isn't all just the player. What I do think is he has worn out his welcome and the players are waiting for something organizational wise to happen to give them hope.

Look at me being all rational hey lol. It's so fun to just stir the pot I forgot its also nice to just be normal and have an actual conversation. Have a good day all
NewYorkNuck
Vancouver Canucks
Location: New York, NY
Joined: 07.11.2015

Nov 20 @ 11:57 AM ET
Green has ruined at least 4 , JB has traded away at least 4.

Plus traded away quite a few picks that could have been.

- manvanfan




I = we
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 11:59 AM ET
Drafting HOG has been a real bright-spot for Benning and the scouting staff, he's turning out to be a fantastic pick. He's better than Podkolzin who was drafted thirty spots ahead of him.

IMO Podkolzin is destined to be nothing more than a role player, and that's perfectly fine, but not at 10th overall. They should've drafted Soderstrom and then taken Hoglander in round two.

- LeftCoaster


No they shouldn't have


Current scoring for draft years
2014 . McCann 9th in scoring, Forslings 14th.
2015 draft Boeser 19th
2016 lets forget this year ever happened.
2017 Petey 7th Gad 34th
2018 Hughes 2nd
2019 Hogs 3rd Podz 10th

manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:02 PM ET
I don't think thats fair to say. It may be true it may not we don't know. We've had 3 calder finalists I think since he's been here and it isn't all just the player. What I do think is he has worn out his welcome and the players are waiting for something organizational wise to happen to give them hope.

Look at me being all rational hey lol. It's so fun to just stir the pot I forgot its also nice to just be normal and have an actual conversation. Have a good day all

- Jkuzzi

I agree, I think JB's vision has stalled with his lack of ability to be a complete GM. Including firing a coach that has been floundering for years now.

His drafting is still the same, hit or miss. His trades are the same. Just GM avg.

Team needs a way of thinking on how to get the team to the next level.

Unfortunately won't guarantee success though
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:03 PM ET


I = we

- NewYorkNuck

"We" live in hindsight
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Nov 20 @ 12:03 PM ET
No they shouldn't have


Current scoring for draft years
2014 . McCann 9th in scoring, Forslings 14th.
2015 draft Boeser 19th
2016 lets forget this year ever happened.
2017 Petey 7th Gad 34th
2018 Hughes 2nd
2019 Hogs 3rd Podz 10th

- manvanfan

he's 20 years old and he's a defenceman who's played 13 games....patience young man!!!
Jkuzzi
Joined: 12.14.2016

Nov 20 @ 12:05 PM ET
I agree, I think JB's vision has stalled with his lack of ability to be a complete GM. Including firing a coach that has been floundering for years now.

His drafting is still the same, hit or miss. His trades are the same. Just GM avg.

Team needs a way of thinking on how to get the team to the next level.

Unfortunately won't guarantee success though

- manvanfan


Totally.
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:07 PM ET
he's 20 years old....patience young man!!!
- LeftCoaster

Yeah, I like Podz though, he creates when he is allowed to play. Plus he's 2nd in hits during his draft year. Van has been too soft for years.
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Nov 20 @ 12:09 PM ET
Yeah, I like Podz though, he creates when he is allowed to play. Plus he's 2nd in hits during his draft year. Van has been too soft for years.
- manvanfan

The organization needs to stop their love affair with drafting forwards and build a defense from within. It's been an issue for eight years under Jim Benning.

If they start building from the net out they might find a bit more success...maybe?
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:14 PM ET
The organization needs to stop their love affair with drafting forwards and build a defense from within. It's been an issue for eight years under Jim Benning.
- LeftCoaster

I think Benning needs to draft different types of defenders. A lot all seem to have high offensive upside or are "new age" defenders. Not much for steady, physical box out types.


Defence take time. Rathbone, Woo, Jurmo, Utunen, Persson, Truscott, Gabrielsson, Myrenberg.

There are D that are developing even though probably maybe 2 of those actually become NHL D.
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:17 PM ET
https://twitter.com/Fan2A...tatus/1462086370806026250

Linus Karlsson with GWG today. Really starting to come into his own in the SHL now after a rough start. 9 points in his last 7 games.

For reference before anyone says that Dahlen is in the NHL. Dahlen is 2 full years older than Karlsson is.
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Nov 20 @ 12:18 PM ET
I think Benning needs to draft different types of defenders. A lot all seem to have high offensive upside or are "new age" defenders. Not much for steady, physical box out types.


Defence take time. Rathbone, Woo, Jurmo, Utunen, Persson, Truscott, Gabrielsson, Myrenberg.

There are D that are developing even though probably maybe 2 of those actually become NHL D.

- manvanfan

I do too! He needs a few beefy guys that can still skate, like K'Andre Miller in New York. Benning just likes flashy things because he's a moron who doesn't know how to build an entire team. You don't want all high octane guys, you need some beef in your lineup.

One defenseman in eight drafts currently on the team, that's just unacceptable IMO.
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:24 PM ET
I do too! He needs a few beefy guys that can still skate, like K'Andre Miller in New York. Benning just likes flashy things because he's a moron who doesn't know how to build and entire team. You don't want all high octane guys, you need some beef in your lineup.

One defenseman in eight drafts currently on the team, that's just unacceptable IMO.

- LeftCoaster

Colorado is doing pretty okay

I would agree you need different types of defenders but if you had Hughes in the line up and Fox came up, are you going to not draft Fox because you have Hughes already?

I still have no idea how the highest scoring defensive men on that USNDT team and 3rd on the team is scoring, was 3rd highest Dman drafted and 8th off the team.
K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: Sayulita
Joined: 09.02.2014

Nov 20 @ 12:28 PM ET
26th
VanHockeyGuy
Location: “Who are we to think we’re anybody?” - Tocchet. Penticton, BC
Joined: 04.26.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:28 PM ET
I don't think Francesco Aquilni wants a new GM because he's the one who's making the decisions, he doesn't want to lose that, and, or, no one is willing to work for him because of it.
- LeftCoaster


What we do know is he likes to hire inexperienced GM's & coaches. So you may have something there.
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:36 PM ET
26th
- K-man25

Points or points percentage? or Goals against?
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Nov 20 @ 12:38 PM ET
Colorado is doing pretty okay

I would agree you need different types of defenders but if you had Hughes in the line up and Fox came up, are you going to not draft Fox because you have Hughes already?

I still have no idea how the highest scoring defensive men on that USNDT team and 3rd on the team is scoring, was 3rd highest Dman drafted and 8th off the team.

- manvanfan

The type of guys I'm referring to can be found in the 2-3-4 rounds, not in the top ten of a draft. Of course you take the BPA at the top of the draft but if there isn't a great option, like the Podkolzin draft, take a defenseman with upside because Podkolzin was taken purely on potential as he hadn't proven much up to his draft year.
VanHockeyGuy
Location: “Who are we to think we’re anybody?” - Tocchet. Penticton, BC
Joined: 04.26.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:41 PM ET
The organization needs to stop their love affair with drafting forwards and build a defense from within. It's been an issue for eight years under Jim Benning.

If they start building from the net out they might find a bit more success...maybe?

- LeftCoaster


I don't think JB's mindset is on drafting and development right now, if anything he's dangling picks/prospects to get immediate help. He won't be around to see these kids develop anyway.
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Nov 20 @ 12:41 PM ET
LeBrun: Coyotes GM Bill Armstrong on why they went scorched earth and the long road ahead

The Arizona Coyotes are 32nd in the NHL because 33rd isn’t available.

You can’t sugarcoat a 2-13-1 start.

The organization’s woes on the ice are mitigated behind the scenes by the knowledge that a plan is in motion.

There are better days ahead, if that game plan hits. But man, it’s a daunting rebuild.

“It’s easy to look at the standings and say, ‘The Coyotes, they suck,'” GM Bill Armstrong told The Athletic. “You know, there is a thought process here. We really deliberated hard as an organization about where we were going.

“We could have just re-loaded and gone at it and made the playoffs once every four years — if lucky, get by a first round, but most times get beat out. We had the conversation, ‘We want to be great here. We want to take the chance to be great.’ And the only way to do that is through the draft.’’

Armstrong dutifully went through some of the most successful rebuilds of the past 15 years or so, pointing out a common theme in the teams he mentions:

Tampa Bay: Steven Stamkos, first overall (2008); Victor Hedman, second overall (2009)
St. Louis: Erik Johnson, first overall (2006); Alex Pietrangelo, fourth overall (2008)
Washington: Alex Ovechkin, first overall (2004); Nicklas Backstrom, fourth overall (2006)
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, first overall (2005); Evgeni Malkin, second overall (2004)
Chicago: Patrick Kane, first overall (2007), Jonathan Toews, third overall (2006)
As Armstrong rhymes off every team and player on that list, he has made his point.

“You’re not going to be great unless you go through the draft,’’ Armstrong said. “We made that decision last summer that we were going to do it through the draft and we weren’t going to sit on the fence. We were going to go all the way in.’’

Somewhere in Buffalo one of the most passionate fan bases in hockey just rolled their eyes in unison.

It’s hard to argue with the top-end draft route if you hit it right. But as the Sabres have learned by undergoing yet another full rebuild under a third different management team over the past decade, there are zero guarantees of it working.

Not to mention the notion that going the scorched earth route is one thing, but making sure quality veterans are still part of the dressing room along the way is also important.

“We’ve tried to do it with Andrew Ladd, Loui Eriksson, Anton Stralman, Antoine Roussel, where we have pretty good, quality people that are trying to lengthen their careers come in here and make a statement and work their asses off no matter if we lose or if we win. They’re bringing their professionalism to the rink every day to try and help our core,’’ said Armstrong.

The idea is to make sure the losing itself doesn’t crush the development of core guys like Jakob Chychrun, Nick Schmaltz, Clayton Keller, Lawson Crouse and Barrett Hayton.

“This year is about being competitive and working and creating new culture with new coaches and getting the most out of our players,’’ Armstrong said. “But at the same time, we’ve made a choice to look through the draft and take that chance to become a great organization.’’

But make no mistake, it’s hard in the moment. This is a long road ahead with no guarantees at the end of it.

Armstrong was a young guy in the Blues front office years ago. The Blues rebuilt well, so he’s got that reference point firsthand.

“I was there when we picked Erik Johnson, I was there when we unloaded everybody like Dougie Weight, Billy Guerin, Keith Tkachuk,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s a process you have to go through to become great. It’s the way you have to do it.’’

In many ways, Arizona’s draft pick situation when Armstrong was hired in September 2020 cemented the path ahead.

The previous regime not only traded away a first- and third-round pick for pending UFA Taylor Hall but the Coyotes also forfeited a first- and second-round pick as part of the draft combine cheating brouhaha.

So, acquiring draft capital became more than a priority — it became Arizona’s raison d’être.

Bye-bye, Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland, Darcy Kuemper, Adin Hill and Christian Dvorak. Sell, sell, sell. Picks, picks, picks.

It’s how they netted the ninth overall pick last summer (Dylan Guenther) and acquired two second-round picks that they used to choose Josh Doan and Janis Moser (they chose Ilya Fedotov with their own second-rounder).

But the real bonanza, potentially, is the 2022 draft where the Coyotes have three first-round picks and five second-round picks.

Armstrong has re-vamped his scouting staff, hiring the likes of Darryl Plandowski in October 2020 as Arizona’s director of amateur scouting after he spent 12 years in Tampa Bay. He also hired Ryan Jankowski (Buffalo, Hockey Canada) in October 2020 and hired Alan Hepple last summer as director of pro scouting after he spent the previous 19 seasons with the Avalanche front office, the last six years as their director of amateur scouting.

The next few years are all about drafting and development.

“Not by accident we’ve tried to put in the right staff with a ton of experience to help with the odds of picking the right people to help this organization move forward and win a championship,’’ Armstrong said.

Armstrong also has Shane Doan, Larry Pleau and John Ferguson surrounding him in the organization.

“Behind the scenes, maybe the standings don’t look it, but there is a plan,’’ Armstrong said. “We’ve hired great, great people to lead us through and make sure the process is right as we move forward.’’

And so the 2022 draft looms large. How good a draft is it? Corey Pronman, The Athletic’s draft guru, says most scouts believe it’s not an overly strong draft. Others believe it is possible some major junior players can emerge in the second half given the chaos from last year’s pandemic-affected season.

“It’s a good draft. I think we’ll know more as we move along,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s still really, really early. … It’s a different year because a lot of guys have been off and you have to be patient.’’

In the meantime, there’s a trade deadline on March 21 where the Coyotes hope to add more picks.

The obvious trade bait is pending UFA winger Phil Kessel.

“We’ve had honest conversations with Phil from the get-go,’’ Armstrong said. “But Phil has been so good for us here. He’s come in and worked his butt off and played hard every single game for us. He’s someone that, as he gets older, still maintains his skating — that’s the greatest thing. He’s got that natural, goal-scoring ability. He continues to be good for us.’’

And of course, the Coyotes will try yet again to be creative with their cap space, as they were last year (having netted picks that way). As I reported recently, the Coyotes tried hard to get in on the Jack Eichel deal as a third-party broker willing to rent out cap space, but in the end, Vegas and Buffalo were able to strike a deal without Arizona needing to be involved.

In any case, the Coyotes will hope to use that cap space again ahead of the trade deadline and the draft.

“We’ve obviously tried to be very creative in trying to generate picks and we’re going to continue to do that all the way through,’’ Armstrong said. “That’s something we haven’t been shy about, trying to acquire picks and cap space because the flat cap has been at a premium. So, we’ve always tried to use that to our advantage and will continue to do so.’’

Imagine a day where this plan all comes together. It feels so far away right now.

The Coyotes haven’t won a playoff series (not counting the qualifier in the 2020 bubble) since 2012 when they reached the Western Conference final before losing to the eventual Stanley Cup champion Kings. The Desert was rocking. Those moments have been so few and far between for this franchise, which has missed the playoffs 14 of the past 18 years.

The previous administration, led by GM John Chayka, came in with interesting ideas, too. But Armstrong can’t control what’s happened before him. He will be judged on his attempt to fully rebuild the Coyotes into what he hopes is an elite, contend-every-year franchise.

He knows how daunting that is.

As for a timeline? Going back to those Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Washington examples, the timeline is greatly affected if you hit right on the mark with your high-end picks out of the gate.

“The timeline is sped up if you hit the impact player,’’ Armstrong said. “If you get two impact players, the timeline speeds up a lot. If you got to do it with a thousand different cuts, like we might have to with all our picks, maybe it takes a little longer.”

It’s a franchise that desperately, finally needs to hit on its game plan — a game plan that is already in motion.

Will it work? I won’t pretend to know that answer. But the scorched earth approach, at the very least, was probably the way to go.
VanHockeyGuy
Location: “Who are we to think we’re anybody?” - Tocchet. Penticton, BC
Joined: 04.26.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:42 PM ET
LeBrun: Coyotes GM Bill Armstrong on why they went scorched earth and the long road ahead

The Arizona Coyotes are 32nd in the NHL because 33rd isn’t available.

You can’t sugarcoat a 2-13-1 start.

The organization’s woes on the ice are mitigated behind the scenes by the knowledge that a plan is in motion.

There are better days ahead, if that game plan hits. But man, it’s a daunting rebuild.

“It’s easy to look at the standings and say, ‘The Coyotes, they suck,'” GM Bill Armstrong told The Athletic. “You know, there is a thought process here. We really deliberated hard as an organization about where we were going.

“We could have just re-loaded and gone at it and made the playoffs once every four years — if lucky, get by a first round, but most times get beat out. We had the conversation, ‘We want to be great here. We want to take the chance to be great.’ And the only way to do that is through the draft.’’

Armstrong dutifully went through some of the most successful rebuilds of the past 15 years or so, pointing out a common theme in the teams he mentions:

Tampa Bay: Steven Stamkos, first overall (2008); Victor Hedman, second overall (2009)
St. Louis: Erik Johnson, first overall (2006); Alex Pietrangelo, fourth overall (2008)
Washington: Alex Ovechkin, first overall (2004); Nicklas Backstrom, fourth overall (2006)
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, first overall (2005); Evgeni Malkin, second overall (2004)
Chicago: Patrick Kane, first overall (2007), Jonathan Toews, third overall (2006)
As Armstrong rhymes off every team and player on that list, he has made his point.

“You’re not going to be great unless you go through the draft,’’ Armstrong said. “We made that decision last summer that we were going to do it through the draft and we weren’t going to sit on the fence. We were going to go all the way in.’’

Somewhere in Buffalo one of the most passionate fan bases in hockey just rolled their eyes in unison.

It’s hard to argue with the top-end draft route if you hit it right. But as the Sabres have learned by undergoing yet another full rebuild under a third different management team over the past decade, there are zero guarantees of it working.

Not to mention the notion that going the scorched earth route is one thing, but making sure quality veterans are still part of the dressing room along the way is also important.

“We’ve tried to do it with Andrew Ladd, Loui Eriksson, Anton Stralman, Antoine Roussel, where we have pretty good, quality people that are trying to lengthen their careers come in here and make a statement and work their asses off no matter if we lose or if we win. They’re bringing their professionalism to the rink every day to try and help our core,’’ said Armstrong.

The idea is to make sure the losing itself doesn’t crush the development of core guys like Jakob Chychrun, Nick Schmaltz, Clayton Keller, Lawson Crouse and Barrett Hayton.

“This year is about being competitive and working and creating new culture with new coaches and getting the most out of our players,’’ Armstrong said. “But at the same time, we’ve made a choice to look through the draft and take that chance to become a great organization.’’

But make no mistake, it’s hard in the moment. This is a long road ahead with no guarantees at the end of it.

Armstrong was a young guy in the Blues front office years ago. The Blues rebuilt well, so he’s got that reference point firsthand.

“I was there when we picked Erik Johnson, I was there when we unloaded everybody like Dougie Weight, Billy Guerin, Keith Tkachuk,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s a process you have to go through to become great. It’s the way you have to do it.’’

In many ways, Arizona’s draft pick situation when Armstrong was hired in September 2020 cemented the path ahead.

The previous regime not only traded away a first- and third-round pick for pending UFA Taylor Hall but the Coyotes also forfeited a first- and second-round pick as part of the draft combine cheating brouhaha.

So, acquiring draft capital became more than a priority — it became Arizona’s raison d’être.

Bye-bye, Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland, Darcy Kuemper, Adin Hill and Christian Dvorak. Sell, sell, sell. Picks, picks, picks.

It’s how they netted the ninth overall pick last summer (Dylan Guenther) and acquired two second-round picks that they used to choose Josh Doan and Janis Moser (they chose Ilya Fedotov with their own second-rounder).

But the real bonanza, potentially, is the 2022 draft where the Coyotes have three first-round picks and five second-round picks.

Armstrong has re-vamped his scouting staff, hiring the likes of Darryl Plandowski in October 2020 as Arizona’s director of amateur scouting after he spent 12 years in Tampa Bay. He also hired Ryan Jankowski (Buffalo, Hockey Canada) in October 2020 and hired Alan Hepple last summer as director of pro scouting after he spent the previous 19 seasons with the Avalanche front office, the last six years as their director of amateur scouting.

The next few years are all about drafting and development.

“Not by accident we’ve tried to put in the right staff with a ton of experience to help with the odds of picking the right people to help this organization move forward and win a championship,’’ Armstrong said.

Armstrong also has Shane Doan, Larry Pleau and John Ferguson surrounding him in the organization.

“Behind the scenes, maybe the standings don’t look it, but there is a plan,’’ Armstrong said. “We’ve hired great, great people to lead us through and make sure the process is right as we move forward.’’

And so the 2022 draft looms large. How good a draft is it? Corey Pronman, The Athletic’s draft guru, says most scouts believe it’s not an overly strong draft. Others believe it is possible some major junior players can emerge in the second half given the chaos from last year’s pandemic-affected season.

“It’s a good draft. I think we’ll know more as we move along,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s still really, really early. … It’s a different year because a lot of guys have been off and you have to be patient.’’

In the meantime, there’s a trade deadline on March 21 where the Coyotes hope to add more picks.

The obvious trade bait is pending UFA winger Phil Kessel.

“We’ve had honest conversations with Phil from the get-go,’’ Armstrong said. “But Phil has been so good for us here. He’s come in and worked his butt off and played hard every single game for us. He’s someone that, as he gets older, still maintains his skating — that’s the greatest thing. He’s got that natural, goal-scoring ability. He continues to be good for us.’’

And of course, the Coyotes will try yet again to be creative with their cap space, as they were last year (having netted picks that way). As I reported recently, the Coyotes tried hard to get in on the Jack Eichel deal as a third-party broker willing to rent out cap space, but in the end, Vegas and Buffalo were able to strike a deal without Arizona needing to be involved.

In any case, the Coyotes will hope to use that cap space again ahead of the trade deadline and the draft.

“We’ve obviously tried to be very creative in trying to generate picks and we’re going to continue to do that all the way through,’’ Armstrong said. “That’s something we haven’t been shy about, trying to acquire picks and cap space because the flat cap has been at a premium. So, we’ve always tried to use that to our advantage and will continue to do so.’’

Imagine a day where this plan all comes together. It feels so far away right now.

The Coyotes haven’t won a playoff series (not counting the qualifier in the 2020 bubble) since 2012 when they reached the Western Conference final before losing to the eventual Stanley Cup champion Kings. The Desert was rocking. Those moments have been so few and far between for this franchise, which has missed the playoffs 14 of the past 18 years.

The previous administration, led by GM John Chayka, came in with interesting ideas, too. But Armstrong can’t control what’s happened before him. He will be judged on his attempt to fully rebuild the Coyotes into what he hopes is an elite, contend-every-year franchise.

He knows how daunting that is.

As for a timeline? Going back to those Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Washington examples, the timeline is greatly affected if you hit right on the mark with your high-end picks out of the gate.

“The timeline is sped up if you hit the impact player,’’ Armstrong said. “If you get two impact players, the timeline speeds up a lot. If you got to do it with a thousand different cuts, like we might have to with all our picks, maybe it takes a little longer.”

It’s a franchise that desperately, finally needs to hit on its game plan — a game plan that is already in motion.

Will it work? I won’t pretend to know that answer. But the scorched earth approach, at the very least, was probably the way to go.

- LeftCoaster


With a well tanned Loui as their poster boy!
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Nov 20 @ 12:44 PM ET
With a well tanned Loui as their poster boy!
- VanHockeyGuy

One things for sure, if you wanna lose, you hire Loui Eriksson to play for you
VanHockeyGuy
Location: “Who are we to think we’re anybody?” - Tocchet. Penticton, BC
Joined: 04.26.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:46 PM ET
One things for sure, if you wanna lose, you hire Loui Eriksson to play for you
- LeftCoaster


I hope EP doesn't turn out that way.
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:46 PM ET
The type of guys I'm referring to can be found in the 2-3-4 rounds, not in the top ten of a draft. Of course you take the BPA at the top of the draft but if there isn't a great option, like the Podkolzin draft, take a defenseman with upside because Podkolzin was taken purely on potential as he hadn't proven much up to his draft year.
- LeftCoaster

Oh. Pacific.
manvanfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: MB
Joined: 01.21.2012

Nov 20 @ 12:49 PM ET
LeBrun: Coyotes GM Bill Armstrong on why they went scorched earth and the long road ahead

The Arizona Coyotes are 32nd in the NHL because 33rd isn’t available.

You can’t sugarcoat a 2-13-1 start.

The organization’s woes on the ice are mitigated behind the scenes by the knowledge that a plan is in motion.

There are better days ahead, if that game plan hits. But man, it’s a daunting rebuild.

“It’s easy to look at the standings and say, ‘The Coyotes, they suck,'” GM Bill Armstrong told The Athletic. “You know, there is a thought process here. We really deliberated hard as an organization about where we were going.

“We could have just re-loaded and gone at it and made the playoffs once every four years — if lucky, get by a first round, but most times get beat out. We had the conversation, ‘We want to be great here. We want to take the chance to be great.’ And the only way to do that is through the draft.’’

Armstrong dutifully went through some of the most successful rebuilds of the past 15 years or so, pointing out a common theme in the teams he mentions:

Tampa Bay: Steven Stamkos, first overall (2008); Victor Hedman, second overall (2009)
St. Louis: Erik Johnson, first overall (2006); Alex Pietrangelo, fourth overall (2008)
Washington: Alex Ovechkin, first overall (2004); Nicklas Backstrom, fourth overall (2006)
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, first overall (2005); Evgeni Malkin, second overall (2004)
Chicago: Patrick Kane, first overall (2007), Jonathan Toews, third overall (2006)
As Armstrong rhymes off every team and player on that list, he has made his point.


- LeftCoaster

If JB was allowed to draft within the top 5.
Marwood
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Cumberland, BC
Joined: 03.18.2010

Nov 20 @ 12:52 PM ET
LeBrun: Coyotes GM Bill Armstrong on why they went scorched earth and the long road ahead

The Arizona Coyotes are 32nd in the NHL because 33rd isn’t available.

You can’t sugarcoat a 2-13-1 start.

The organization’s woes on the ice are mitigated behind the scenes by the knowledge that a plan is in motion.

There are better days ahead, if that game plan hits. But man, it’s a daunting rebuild.

“It’s easy to look at the standings and say, ‘The Coyotes, they suck,'” GM Bill Armstrong told The Athletic. “You know, there is a thought process here. We really deliberated hard as an organization about where we were going.

“We could have just re-loaded and gone at it and made the playoffs once every four years — if lucky, get by a first round, but most times get beat out. We had the conversation, ‘We want to be great here. We want to take the chance to be great.’ And the only way to do that is through the draft.’’

Armstrong dutifully went through some of the most successful rebuilds of the past 15 years or so, pointing out a common theme in the teams he mentions:

Tampa Bay: Steven Stamkos, first overall (2008); Victor Hedman, second overall (2009)
St. Louis: Erik Johnson, first overall (2006); Alex Pietrangelo, fourth overall (2008)
Washington: Alex Ovechkin, first overall (2004); Nicklas Backstrom, fourth overall (2006)
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, first overall (2005); Evgeni Malkin, second overall (2004)
Chicago: Patrick Kane, first overall (2007), Jonathan Toews, third overall (2006)
As Armstrong rhymes off every team and player on that list, he has made his point.

“You’re not going to be great unless you go through the draft,’’ Armstrong said. “We made that decision last summer that we were going to do it through the draft and we weren’t going to sit on the fence. We were going to go all the way in.’’

Somewhere in Buffalo one of the most passionate fan bases in hockey just rolled their eyes in unison.

It’s hard to argue with the top-end draft route if you hit it right. But as the Sabres have learned by undergoing yet another full rebuild under a third different management team over the past decade, there are zero guarantees of it working.

Not to mention the notion that going the scorched earth route is one thing, but making sure quality veterans are still part of the dressing room along the way is also important.

“We’ve tried to do it with Andrew Ladd, Loui Eriksson, Anton Stralman, Antoine Roussel, where we have pretty good, quality people that are trying to lengthen their careers come in here and make a statement and work their asses off no matter if we lose or if we win. They’re bringing their professionalism to the rink every day to try and help our core,’’ said Armstrong.

The idea is to make sure the losing itself doesn’t crush the development of core guys like Jakob Chychrun, Nick Schmaltz, Clayton Keller, Lawson Crouse and Barrett Hayton.

“This year is about being competitive and working and creating new culture with new coaches and getting the most out of our players,’’ Armstrong said. “But at the same time, we’ve made a choice to look through the draft and take that chance to become a great organization.’’

But make no mistake, it’s hard in the moment. This is a long road ahead with no guarantees at the end of it.

Armstrong was a young guy in the Blues front office years ago. The Blues rebuilt well, so he’s got that reference point firsthand.

“I was there when we picked Erik Johnson, I was there when we unloaded everybody like Dougie Weight, Billy Guerin, Keith Tkachuk,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s a process you have to go through to become great. It’s the way you have to do it.’’

In many ways, Arizona’s draft pick situation when Armstrong was hired in September 2020 cemented the path ahead.

The previous regime not only traded away a first- and third-round pick for pending UFA Taylor Hall but the Coyotes also forfeited a first- and second-round pick as part of the draft combine cheating brouhaha.

So, acquiring draft capital became more than a priority — it became Arizona’s raison d’être.

Bye-bye, Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland, Darcy Kuemper, Adin Hill and Christian Dvorak. Sell, sell, sell. Picks, picks, picks.

It’s how they netted the ninth overall pick last summer (Dylan Guenther) and acquired two second-round picks that they used to choose Josh Doan and Janis Moser (they chose Ilya Fedotov with their own second-rounder).

But the real bonanza, potentially, is the 2022 draft where the Coyotes have three first-round picks and five second-round picks.

Armstrong has re-vamped his scouting staff, hiring the likes of Darryl Plandowski in October 2020 as Arizona’s director of amateur scouting after he spent 12 years in Tampa Bay. He also hired Ryan Jankowski (Buffalo, Hockey Canada) in October 2020 and hired Alan Hepple last summer as director of pro scouting after he spent the previous 19 seasons with the Avalanche front office, the last six years as their director of amateur scouting.

The next few years are all about drafting and development.

“Not by accident we’ve tried to put in the right staff with a ton of experience to help with the odds of picking the right people to help this organization move forward and win a championship,’’ Armstrong said.

Armstrong also has Shane Doan, Larry Pleau and John Ferguson surrounding him in the organization.

“Behind the scenes, maybe the standings don’t look it, but there is a plan,’’ Armstrong said. “We’ve hired great, great people to lead us through and make sure the process is right as we move forward.’’

And so the 2022 draft looms large. How good a draft is it? Corey Pronman, The Athletic’s draft guru, says most scouts believe it’s not an overly strong draft. Others believe it is possible some major junior players can emerge in the second half given the chaos from last year’s pandemic-affected season.

“It’s a good draft. I think we’ll know more as we move along,’’ Armstrong said. “It’s still really, really early. … It’s a different year because a lot of guys have been off and you have to be patient.’’

In the meantime, there’s a trade deadline on March 21 where the Coyotes hope to add more picks.

The obvious trade bait is pending UFA winger Phil Kessel.

“We’ve had honest conversations with Phil from the get-go,’’ Armstrong said. “But Phil has been so good for us here. He’s come in and worked his butt off and played hard every single game for us. He’s someone that, as he gets older, still maintains his skating — that’s the greatest thing. He’s got that natural, goal-scoring ability. He continues to be good for us.’’

And of course, the Coyotes will try yet again to be creative with their cap space, as they were last year (having netted picks that way). As I reported recently, the Coyotes tried hard to get in on the Jack Eichel deal as a third-party broker willing to rent out cap space, but in the end, Vegas and Buffalo were able to strike a deal without Arizona needing to be involved.

In any case, the Coyotes will hope to use that cap space again ahead of the trade deadline and the draft.

“We’ve obviously tried to be very creative in trying to generate picks and we’re going to continue to do that all the way through,’’ Armstrong said. “That’s something we haven’t been shy about, trying to acquire picks and cap space because the flat cap has been at a premium. So, we’ve always tried to use that to our advantage and will continue to do so.’’

Imagine a day where this plan all comes together. It feels so far away right now.

The Coyotes haven’t won a playoff series (not counting the qualifier in the 2020 bubble) since 2012 when they reached the Western Conference final before losing to the eventual Stanley Cup champion Kings. The Desert was rocking. Those moments have been so few and far between for this franchise, which has missed the playoffs 14 of the past 18 years.

The previous administration, led by GM John Chayka, came in with interesting ideas, too. But Armstrong can’t control what’s happened before him. He will be judged on his attempt to fully rebuild the Coyotes into what he hopes is an elite, contend-every-year franchise.

He knows how daunting that is.

As for a timeline? Going back to those Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Washington examples, the timeline is greatly affected if you hit right on the mark with your high-end picks out of the gate.

“The timeline is sped up if you hit the impact player,’’ Armstrong said. “If you get two impact players, the timeline speeds up a lot. If you got to do it with a thousand different cuts, like we might have to with all our picks, maybe it takes a little longer.”

It’s a franchise that desperately, finally needs to hit on its game plan — a game plan that is already in motion.

Will it work? I won’t pretend to know that answer. But the scorched earth approach, at the very least, was probably the way to go.

- LeftCoaster

Wow! Competent management with a long term plan well layed out. I'm envious.
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