Basing it strictly on defense, what Flyers defenseman is better than Risto? Seeler? Yandle? Braun? Sanheim? Provey? IMO, nope, Risto is better than all of them.
- jd250

But 1) you cant base it all on strictly defense because the game isn't played that way. and 2)Provorov is clearly better.

What I also saw was that Risto's positives (physicality, changing the opposition's plan because they are avoiding him or too concerned about going after him) also hurts his game as he far too often takes himself out of the play/makes a bad read/makes the wrong decision/loses positioning doing the very same things.

Is he as bad as MJL says? No.

Is he as good as you say? No.

With Risto you live with the bad because sometimes the intangibles of what he DOES bring can be a positive.

Is this really shocking seeing who the coach is? Yet he will not make any lineup adjustments regarding those players.

The macewen "hype" was because he was a tad better than the other slop. Reality is he is a borderline 12/13. On a good team likely not in the lineup.

X amount of years later and the Flyers still cant field a formidable bottom 6.
- hello it's me 2050

I honestly think that with the sole exception of the starting goaltender, the Flyers are in worse shape than when this rebuild started.

On D, they are solid on the left side with Provy and Sanheim and have 2 legit prospects in York and Zamula. However the right side is a mess; Ellis is a question mark at this point, Risto is a 3rd pair talent getting top 4 money and Braun is a fading stopgap. Worse, they have next to nothing in the system at RD.

The other key position, center, is even worse. Couts isn’t getting any younger, Hayes is a huge question mark and his deal is no prize either, and the rest are journeymen and fading vets. Frost is the only legit prospect and far from a sure thing.

And while they are deep in wing prospects, none are sure bet top 6 NHL players. Quite frankly, if this season goes the way I fear it will, both the GM and the coaching staff need to go.

I honestly think that with the sole exception of the starting goaltender, the Flyers are in worse shape than when this rebuild started.

On D, they are solid on the left side with Provy and Sanheim and have 2 legit prospects in York and Zamula. However the right side is a mess; Ellis is a question mark at this point, Risto is a 3rd pair talent getting top 4 money and Braun is a fading stopgap. Worse, they have next to nothing in the system at RD.

The other key position, center, is even worse. Couts isn’t getting any younger, Hayes is a huge question mark and his deal is no prize either, and the rest are journeymen and fading vets. Frost is the only legit prospect and far from a sure thing.

And while they are deep in wing prospects, none are sure bet top 6 NHL players. Quite frankly, if this season goes the way I fear it will, both the GM and the coaching staff need to go.
- BiggE

Missing on Patrick, and then signing Hayes to make up for it has really killed this team. It also hasn't helped that Frost has been slow to develop/injured so often.

I honestly think that with the sole exception of the starting goaltender, the Flyers are in worse shape than when this rebuild started.

On D, they are solid on the left side with Provy and Sanheim and have 2 legit prospects in York and Zamula. However the right side is a mess; Ellis is a question mark at this point, Risto is a 3rd pair talent getting top 4 money and Braun is a fading stopgap. Worse, they have next to nothing in the system at RD.

The other key position, center, is even worse. Couts isn’t getting any younger, Hayes is a huge question mark and his deal is no prize either, and the rest are journeymen and fading vets. Frost is the only legit prospect and far from a sure thing.

And while they are deep in wing prospects, none are sure bet top 6 NHL players. Quite frankly, if this season goes the way I fear it will, both the GM and the coaching staff need to go.
- BiggE

no way risto is a 3rd pair talent at worst he's 2nd pair talent
and if you're right we massively overpaid for him

Missing on Patrick, and then signing Hayes to make up for it has really killed this team. It also hasn't helped that Frost has been slow to develop/injured so often.
- MBFlyerfan

missing on morin was a killer too

That’s a good question. They re-signed Ekholm to an extension for similar money as Ellis’ deal and chose to move Ellis instead. Since most experts would rate Ellis as the better player, it makes little sense unless the Preds had concerns about Ellis’ durability going forward
- BiggE

durability probably was a part. Also He is signed for 6 years. how does that figure in the long term plan when they are hoping to be legit contenders? Better to sell year early then late. They realize that contract can be a potential burden on a few years.

The preds valued Ekholm more going forward is my guess when you look at all the variables.

You make it sound like the Flyers are the worst team in the league, but actually they are 21st in the league in High Danger Chances Against (HDCA), not great but certainly not horrible either. Good teams below them in this metric include Florida, St. Louis, Edmonton, Toronto and Vegas. With that said, the Flyers are 6th in the league in High Danger Save Percentage (HDSV%) and 7th in the league in High Danger Goals Against (HDGA) so clearly they are getting good goal tending which every team in the league needs to be successful! The Flyers are averaging about 10 HDCA per game so far this season. If they can improve this by even 1 less HDCA per game, they are in the top 10 in the league, so my point here is don't exaggerate how bad the Flyers defense is compared to the rest of the league.
- jd250

The Flyers are 30th in the league in HDCA. We'll start there. You did counts, which you can't do because some teams have played more games, some less.

https://naturalstattrick....all&loc=B&gpf=410&fd=&td=

Missing on Patrick, and then signing Hayes to make up for it has really killed this team. It also hasn't helped that Frost has been slow to develop/injured so often.
- MBFlyerfan

It really is frustrating that the Flyers haven’t drafted/developed a quality center since Couturier in 2011. Even more troubling, I can’t even remember the last quality top 4 RD they drafted, certainly no one in the last 20 years.

Ok, so you are saying that each team here has much higher skilled players than the Flyers, given the Flyers PP is only at 15%?
- jd250

No, I'm clearly saying that some other teams have highly skilled players that execute on the PP.

I honestly think that with the sole exception of the starting goaltender, the Flyers are in worse shape than when this rebuild started.

On D, they are solid on the left side with Provy and Sanheim and have 2 legit prospects in York and Zamula. However the right side is a mess; Ellis is a question mark at this point, Risto is a 3rd pair talent getting top 4 money and Braun is a fading stopgap. Worse, they have next to nothing in the system at RD.

The other key position, center, is even worse. Couts isn’t getting any younger, Hayes is a huge question mark and his deal is no prize either, and the rest are journeymen and fading vets. Frost is the only legit prospect and far from a sure thing.

And while they are deep in wing prospects, none are sure bet top 6 NHL players. Quite frankly, if this season goes the way I fear it will, both the GM and the coaching staff need to go.
- BiggE

All good points. Well I def cant say they are in better shape!!! This is why they have become an irrelevant organization. Whole bunch of average.

They need comcast to sell. Wish the Red Sox group purchased them instead.

Basing it strictly on defense, what Flyers defenseman is better than Risto? Seeler? Yandle? Braun? Sanheim? Provey? IMO, nope, Risto is better than all of them.
- jd250

Provorov, Ellis and Braun are better strictly on defense.

But 1) you cant base it all on strictly defense because the game isn't played that way. and 2)Provorov is clearly better.

What I also saw was that Risto's positives (physicality, changing the opposition's plan because they are avoiding him or too concerned about going after him) also hurts his game as he far too often takes himself out of the play/makes a bad read/makes the wrong decision/loses positioning doing the very same things.

Is he as bad as MJL says? No.

Is he as good as you say? No.

With Risto you live with the bad because sometimes the intangibles of what he DOES bring can be a positive.
- MBFlyerfan

How bad do I say that he is? I say he is a mediocre top 4 NHL defenseman. If he would play consistently, he would be better but to this point he has not. In my opinion he's played 5 good games this season. That's not very consistent. I also think the idea that players are avoiding him is being drastically overblown. If that was true, he wouldn't be able to lay the hits that he does. Bergeron didn't try to avoid him when Ristolianen hit him late. I see teams trying to take advantage of his over aggressiveness in going for hits rather than avoiding him. Of course, no player is going take a hit if they don't have to.

It really is frustrating that the Flyers haven’t drafted/developed a quality center since Couturier in 2011. Even more troubling, I can’t even remember the last quality top 4 RD they drafted, certainly no one in the last 20 years.
- BiggE

It's really cost them. They then compound the cost by trying to trade their way around it. They tried to do the same thing again last off season. When will they learn?

That’s a good question. They re-signed Ekholm to an extension for similar money as Ellis’ deal and chose to move Ellis instead. Since most experts would rate Ellis as the better player, it makes little sense unless the Preds had concerns about Ellis’ durability going forward
- BiggE

Or they thought they got a better return for ellis.

Define defense? If you mean physically engaging an opponent and winning that battle than Risto has been great. If you mean limiting the opponents opportunities to score than Risto has not been great. Braun and Provy have been better.
- mickel25

I was defining it as the opposite of offense, but you are bringing up good points.

missing on morin was a killer too
- 2Real

We really cannot downplay the effect that injuries have played on the Flyers prospect pipeline. Outside of Bee and Provy, I can't think of 2 drafted prospects this team has gotten in the past 5-6 years that has NOT been riddled with injuries.

I honestly think that with the sole exception of the starting goaltender, the Flyers are in worse shape than when this rebuild started.

On D, they are solid on the left side with Provy and Sanheim and have 2 legit prospects in York and Zamula. However the right side is a mess; Ellis is a question mark at this point, Risto is a 3rd pair talent getting top 4 money and Braun is a fading stopgap. Worse, they have next to nothing in the system at RD.

The other key position, center, is even worse. Couts isn’t getting any younger, Hayes is a huge question mark and his deal is no prize either, and the rest are journeymen and fading vets. Frost is the only legit prospect and far from a sure thing.

And while they are deep in wing prospects, none are sure bet top 6 NHL players. Quite frankly, if this season goes the way I fear it will, both the GM and the coaching staff need to go.
- BiggE

Wait, we started a rebuild? When did that happen and what do we have to show for it?

But 1) you cant base it all on strictly defense because the game isn't played that way. and 2)Provorov is clearly better.

What I also saw was that Risto's positives (physicality, changing the opposition's plan because they are avoiding him or too concerned about going after him) also hurts his game as he far too often takes himself out of the play/makes a bad read/makes the wrong decision/loses positioning doing the very same things.

Is he as bad as MJL says? No.

Is he as good as you say? No.

With Risto you live with the bad because sometimes the intangibles of what he DOES bring can be a positive.
- MBFlyerfan

You mean the truth is somewhere in the middle? I think you are right!

You mean the truth is somewhere in the middle? I think you are right!
- jd250

So you no longer think he is one of the best defenseman in the league?

Missing on Patrick, and then signing Hayes to make up for it has really killed this team. It also hasn't helped that Frost has been slow to develop/injured so often.
- MBFlyerfan

Spot on! I will also say so far this year I am disappointed with Couts, he has not played well enough IMO.

So you no longer think he is one of the best defenseman in the league?
- MJL

I never thought Risto was the best defenseman in the league! I do believe he was a good pick up for the Flyers because he adds to the backend what they really needed. If Ellis was playing and Braun was helping Yandle on the 3rd pair, the defense on this team would be the least of their issues.

How bad do I say that he is? I say he is a mediocre top 4 NHL defenseman. If he would play consistently, he would be better but to this point he has not. In my opinion he's played 5 good games this season. That's not very consistent. I also think the idea that players are avoiding him is being drastically overblown. If that was true, he wouldn't be able to lay the hits that he does. Bergeron didn't try to avoid him when Ristolianen hit him late. I see teams trying to take advantage of his over aggressiveness in going for hits rather than avoiding him. Of course, no player is going take a hit if they don't have to.
- MJL

Now he will argue that he isn't saying RR is bad lol Which is pretty much every other post he makes. Might not say it directly, but that's the basis of the majority if his posts.

I never thought Risto was the best defenseman in the league! I do believe he was a good pick up for the Flyers because he adds to the backend what they really needed. If Ellis was playing and Braun was helping Yandle on the 3rd pair, the defense on this team would be the least of the issues with them.
- jd250

I didn't say the best defenseman in the league. I said one of the best defenseman in the league. That's the statement that you made. Ristolainen does not add what they really needed and the fact that he doesn't, is part of the reason why the Flyers struggle in a number of areas.

Missing on Patrick, and then signing Hayes to make up for it has really killed this team. It also hasn't helped that Frost has been slow to develop/injured so often.
- MBFlyerfan

With Patrick, I would have traded youth for youth, as how Nashville flipped him. I’m on board with the Flyers doing this with Frost.

With Patrick, I would have traded youth for youth, as how Nashville flipped him. I’m on board with the Flyers doing this with Frost.
- SuperSchennBros

How’d that work out for Nashville lol