Semantics, at the end of the day Hextall made the wrong choice. It’s 100% on him.
- BiggE

It’s always on the gm. That’s the nature of the biz. In retrospect, the criticism that can be debated was perhaps that hextall didn’t go scorched earth absolute tank in order to get several years of top 5 picks instead of trying to ice a competitive team however tanking does not guarantee success as we know.

Sorry if I missed it, but I saw that Hayes is out “week to week.” Did the Flyers have another forward in Florida at practice today? Do they have 12 available to play?
- NC Flyers Fan

Not sure on replacement forward but what the hell happened here. Two key players returning at the same time and re injured first game should not have played. Who made the call here because this sounds like a bad mistake from the docs.

Jesus tits

The player waived values to other teams matters not - it is the cap hit -- hence the statement "for argument's sake"

It's a hockey discussion board, not a grand jury subpoena
- corduroy

It is a hockey discussion board. So why do you have such a problem with discussing it?

Not sure on replacement forward but what the hell happened here. Two key players returning at the same time and re injured first game should not have played. Who made the call here because this sounds like a bad mistake from the docs.
- Hextall271

It was Hayes second game back, was it not?

It is a hockey discussion board. So why do you have such a problem with discussing it?

- MJL

minutiae

It is the whole reason my post had the disclaimer at the end of it

Please stop

minutiae

It is the whole reason my post had the disclaimer at the end of it

Please stop
- corduroy

Dude, seriously, you need to stop. Your disclaimer doesn't prevent someone else from weighing in. You're being ridiculous.

It was Hayes second game back, was it not?
- MJL

Maybe. For some reason I thought it was game 1. It’s also perhaps just bad luck but I read they are both re injuries of the initial problem right?

Maybe. For some reason I thought it was game 1. It’s also perhaps just bad luck but I read they are both re injuries of the initial problem right?
- Hextall271

That’s all I’ve seen as well.

As Bill related, there was no consensus on the pick among the scouts. Some wanted Patrick, some Heiskanen. Hextall made the decision but he didn't overrule anyone.

There were other opportunities that they could've explored this past off season other than trading for Ellis and Ristolainen.
- MJL

Read what you wrote, some wanted Heiskanen, but hextall didn't over rule anyone....lol Huh?

I know he wasn’t top 15, but where does tk fit? Decent pick top 6 forward? I’d like to see more from him but he’s a good pick.
- Hextall271

Late 1sts aren’t much better. For every TK or Sanheim, you have a Rubtsov or O’Brien. Too many blown picks.

Late 1sts aren’t much better. For every TK or Sanheim, you have a Rubtsov or O’Brien. Too many blown picks.
- BiggE

As I’ve said before. I’d really like to see a comparison done with other teams over say the last decade. Say how many of your top 3 round picks make it to the nhl and then maybe make it to play 100 games. I don’t know because Patrick would make the list but we know he was a bust.

I have a feeling a lot of nhl franchises have a similar track record or worse but I could be wrong and we may be the worst in the nhl.

Read what you wrote, some wanted Heiskanen, but hextall didn't over rule anyone....lol Huh?
- bradster

Some wanted Heiskanen, some Makar. Bill had suggested the “majority” wanted a d man. This “how could they have known” BS is laughable. He was in need of surgery when they took him, and was not seen as a #1 Center by a fair amount of scouts. There were also some that questioned his drive all the way back in junior. Although that was explained as he was bored because he was so much better. To suggest there were no red flags is simply not true.
The biggest cheerleader in Flyers front office was Hextall for his own hometown Hero Brandon’s Nolan Patrick. He simply made a horrible decision. Hind sight is 20 20. But that’s how all drafts are judged. The failure is 100% on the GM.

As I’ve said before. I’d really like to see a comparison done with other teams over say the last decade. Say how many of your top 3 round picks make it to the nhl and then maybe make it to play 100 games. I don’t know because Patrick would make the list but we know he was a bust.

I have a feeling a lot of nhl franchises have a similar track record or worse but I could be wrong and we may be the worst in the nhl.
- Hextall271

If you are just looking at games played, could be similar, but top 6 players might be a different story

Some wanted Heiskanen, some Makar. Bill had suggested the “majority” wanted a d man. This “how could they have known” BS is laughable. He was in need of surgery when they took him, and was not seen as a #1 Center by a fair amount of scouts. There were also some that questioned his drive all the way back in junior. Although that was explained as he was bored because he was so much better. To suggest there were no red flags is simply not true.
The biggest cheerleader in Flyers front office was Hextall for his own hometown Hero Brandon’s Nolan Patrick. He simply made a horrible decision. Hind sight is 20 20. But that’s how all drafts are judged. The failure is 100% on the GM.
- landros 2

There were definitely questions. Its just Patrick was at the top of the list for 2 years, then his warts started to show the last year, which should've been a HUGE red flag. Patrick was a consensus top 2 in the media. But teams that did their due diligence should've known better.

As I’ve said before. I’d really like to see a comparison done with other teams over say the last decade. Say how many of your top 3 round picks make it to the nhl and then maybe make it to play 100 games. I don’t know because Patrick would make the list but we know he was a bust.

I have a feeling a lot of nhl franchises have a similar track record or worse but I could be wrong and we may be the worst in the nhl.
- Hextall271

Pretty much every NHL team has its fair share of its own draft picks providing the core for their current team. The Hextall era provided the Flyers with quite a few decent players. Hextall did his best to keep his young prospects hoping to build a future core. It’s kind of where we are today (You can judge for yourself) less a few guys that were sent off over the summer. If I’m judging Hextall’s time here for drafting only, he gets a below average grade when you consider the whole thing. If I’m judging his time here as a GM in total, I think he was fired with good reason.

There were definitely questions. Its just Patrick was at the top of the list for 2 years, then his warts started to show the last year, which should've been a HUGE red flag. Patrick was a consensus top 2 in the media. But teams that did their due diligence should've known better.
- bradster

He was a top two in the media….but there were a ton of detractors by the time the draft rolled around. He was a high risk high reward pick, that simply flopped. 5 years later the same question marks exist…injury prone ? Drive ?

If you are just looking at games played, could be similar, but top 6 players might be a different story
- bradster

Yeah. That’s more subjective obviously but you could look at it.

There’s an element of luck obviously but there are teams that do really well selecting diamonds in the rough.

Pretty much every NHL team has its fair share of its own draft picks providing the core for their current team. The Hextall era provided the Flyers with quite a few decent players. Hextall did his best to keep his young prospects hoping to build a future core. It’s kind of where we are today (You can judge for yourself) less a few guys that were sent off over the summer. If I’m judging Hextall’s time here for drafting only, he gets a below average grade when you consider the whole thing. If I’m judging his time here as a GM in total, I think he was fired with good reason.
- landros 2

Simply put, it was taking too long for the org to see results. What I wonder is if hextall knew when snider passed that the new watch would lose patience fast then would he have done things differently? Full tank early and then go for it with FA or do what he did?

I think he did a good job here if you look at cleaning up the cap mess left. Quite ironic that holmgren axed him after he cleaned up a mess that he left but I don’t think it was his call. Further, I think he’s respected in the league or else he wouldn’t currently be employed as a gm.

Late 1sts aren’t much better. For every TK or Sanheim, you have a Rubtsov or O’Brien. Too many blown picks.
- BiggE

O'Brien is not a blown pick. How can a player be considered a blown pick when he hasn't even left the "junior" level of hockey yet?

He was a top two in the media….but there were a ton of detractors by the time the draft rolled around. He was a high risk high reward pick, that simply flopped. 5 years later the same question marks exist…injury prone ? Drive ?
- landros 2

I remember discussions by experts about his injuries but at that time I don’t think they were headache related. I didn’t ever hear lack of drive as a criticism at that point. If that was apparent I’m sure no one would have taken him high in the draft.

Simply put, it was taking too long for the org to see results. What I wonder is if hextall knew when snider passed that the new watch would lose patience fast then would he have done things differently? Full tank early and then go for it with FA or do what he did?

I think he did a good job here if you look at cleaning up the cap mess left. Quite ironic that holmgren axed him after he cleaned up a mess that he left but I don’t think it was his call. Further, I think he’s respected in the league or else he wouldn’t currently be employed as a gm.
- Hextall271

Hextall did a very good job and he should've never been fired in my opinion. The jury is not back yet but right now, giving Fletcher the GM and President of hockey operations looks like the mistake. He has the Flyers in the worst position a team could be in right now.

I remember discussions by experts about his injuries but at that time I don’t think they were headache related. I didn’t ever hear lack of drive as a criticism at that point. If that was apparent I’m sure no one would have taken him high in the draft.
- Hextall271

Anyone saying that there were red flags with Patrick going into the draft is creating their own reality. He was one of the consensus top 1-2 pick. When a player has these so called red flags, their stock drops.

Hextall did a very good job and he should've never been fired in my opinion. The jury is not back yet but right now, giving Fletcher the GM and President of hockey operations looks like the mistake. He has the Flyers in the worst position a team could be in right now.
- MJL

I’m still waiting to see how this season pans out before I judge fletch.

I understand the organizational impatience as well as the fan base impatience. I’m there too. i do wonder how things would have shaken down had snider been around. We haven’t blown the farm system which is the best news. If the team utterly flops then it’ll be time to let g walk, jvr gone etc.

Once we have Ellis and haze back in say January or February hopefully they can come together so we can see what we actually have and make decisions from there.

I’m still waiting to see how this season pans out before I judge fletch.

I understand the organizational impatience as well as the fan base impatience. I’m there too. i do wonder how things would have shaken down had snider been around. We haven’t blown the farm system which is the best news. If the team utterly flops then it’ll be time to let g walk, jvr gone etc.

Once we have Ellis and haze back in say January or February hopefully they can come together so we can see what we actually have and make decisions from there.
- Hextall271

We do have to wait and see if Hayes and Ellis can get back and playing well. I do believe that this team can play much better than it has. I'm just talking about the early returns. Right now, I think what I feared happening is happening. Which is the classic over correction to one really bad season with extenuating circumstances.

Anyone saying that there were red flags with Patrick going into the draft is creating their own reality. He was one of the consensus top 1-2 pick. When a player has these so called red flags, their stock drops.
- MJL

So I was all over watching and reading about picks that draft once we won the 2nd pick. I watched and read Canadian media ad nauseam. Bob McKenzie Elliott Friedman etc who are reliable sources connected to hockey scouts and gms etc.

None of these guys were saying anything but hischier or Patrick 1 or 2 and in fact up until the very end where hischiers stock rose Patrick was the consensus number 1 on most boards.

No one was saying take makar or heiskanen over these cats. Just wasn’t the talk even if it looks better now.