Any center or forward on the team is capable of coming back deep for example on a center breakout. Executing a team breakout, is not playmaking. It's system and execution. Provorov in recent games against quality opponents has skated the puck through the neutral zone. It's certainly true that the better skating and more skilled players are more adept but it's not just a personnel issue. Players on Florida such as Brandon Montour and Frank Vatrano were executing these plays.The perfect example is the one I used with Sanheim. He has the ability for sure. He made the play he did because he's trying to play within the system. Whether it's the strong side overload/man to man D coverage or a diamond force PK, to breakouts and the PP. I'd like to see it all tweaked. This team definitely has some holes in the lineup and in my opinion in some cases the wrong mix. More can be achieved with this team with some system tweaks.
- MJL

Montour (fast skater btw) and Vatrano (barely aware of this guy) can play that system because Barkov and Ekblad can play that way. But you cannot install a system where you have key players in your lineup for whom that is really not a strength: Couts. Hayes. Provorov.

Thats my theory. All speclation, ofc.

Sure, if Sanheim moved to a fast team, he could be part of the cohesion.

Montour (fast skater btw) and Vatrano (barely aware of this guy) can play that system because Barkov and Ekblad can play that way. But you cannot install a system where you have key players in your lineup for whom that is really not a strength: Couts. Hayes. Provorov.

Thats my theory. All speclation, ofc.

Sure, if Sanheim moved to a fast team, he could be part of the cohesion.
- PT21

I disagree completely. There is no reason why any of those players you named cannot play that style of system. You've offered nothing to substantiate that. All 3 of those players can carry the puck.

I disagree completely. There is no reason why any of those players you named cannot play that style of system. You've offered nothing to substantiate that. All 3 of those players can carry the puck.
- MJL

Couturier and Hayes don't have the speed. Provorov doesn't have the lateral shiftiness and stick handling ability.

Essentially, to play that role, you have to have some credible threat of putting the puck beyond your opponent with some speed. How can you do that? You can't pass it, for everyone else in your team is close to you or behind you. So, that threat has to come from you: either you are a threat with skating speed, or you are a threat to go around your opponent.

The fear of that ability to get beat one-on-one is what will prevent the defenders in neutral ice from closing in on you. If you don't have either, defenders will not give you that space. They will correctly call your bluff, close in on you quicker, and the speed of the play up ice will stall and then wither.

And a few times after that, you will start to cheat with stretch passes or try to go around the defenders by getting closer to the boards. This part is the stage I suggest we see with us. A natural evolution to cover up deficiencies.

I simply do not believe that highly experienced coaches, with prior success, will not implement a system we all can see is being done with successful teams if they have the players they need.

Couturier and Hayes don't have the speed. Provorov doesn't have the lateral shiftiness and stick handling ability.

Essentially, to play that role, you have to have some credible threat of putting the puck beyond your opponent with some speed. How can you do that? You can't pass it, for everyone else in your team is close to you or behind you. So, that threat has to come from you: either you are a threat with skating speed, or you are a threat to go around your opponent.


- PT21

You are not understanding. It is not a role. It is a system. A system that uses the full length of the ice and layers on a breakout to generate speed through the neutral zone and to attack the defense of the other team. On teams like Florida, TB and Carolina, every player plays within the same system to attack as a 5 man unit. Every comment you make here shows a lack of understanding of hockey systems.

The fear of that ability to get beat one-on-one is what will prevent the defenders in neutral ice from closing in on you. If you don't have either, defenders will not give you that space. They will correctly call your bluff, close in on you quicker, and the speed of the play up ice will stall and then wither.


- PT21

That's exactly what those systems want you to do. Which is why they use counters, give and go's and one touch passes to draw defenders in and then attack the open spaces. Again, a complete lack of understanding of hockey systems.

And a few times after that, you will start to cheat with stretch passes or try to go around the defenders by getting closer to the boards. This part is the stage I suggest we see with us. A natural evolution to cover up deficiencies.

I simply do not believe that highly experienced coaches, with prior success, will not implement a system we all can see is being done with successful teams if they have the players they need.
- PT21

Only teams who don't execute will try and cheat. Stretch passes are also always a part of any teams breakout repertoire. There is no doubt that improved systems play and tweaks of the Flyers breakout system will aid them in transition. I've already proved it with a number of examples.

I would suggest for you to spend some time researching and learning hockey systems to better recognize what is happening on the ice.

You are not understanding. It is not a role. It is a system. A system that uses the full length of the ice and layers on a breakout to generate speed through the neutral zone and to attack the defense of the other team. On teams like Florida, TB and Carolina, every player plays within the same system to attack as a 5 man unit. Every comment you make here shows a lack of understanding of hockey systems.




That's exactly what those systems want you to do. Which is why they use counters, give and go's and one touch passes to draw defenders in and then attack the open spaces. Again, a complete lack of understanding of hockey systems.



Only teams who don't execute will try and cheat. Stretch passes are also always a part of any teams breakout repertoire. There is no doubt that improved systems play and tweaks of the Flyers breakout system will aid them in transition. I've already proved it with a number of examples.

I would suggest for you to spend some time researching and learning hockey systems to better recognize what is happening on the ice.
- MJL

So if I understand correctly,

1. "systems" are feasible with any set of players? Iotw, the systems of players are independent of the strengths and weaknesses of the underlying players themselves?

2. And a system that is superior is not being implemented by lauded, experienced coaches for no apparent reasons even though fans know it it superior?

Its probably time I bow out of this subtopic...

So if I understand correctly,

1. "systems" are feasible with any set of players? Iotw, the systems of players are independent of the strengths and weaknesses of the underlying players themselves?

2. And a system that is superior is not being implemented by lauded, experienced coaches for no apparent reasons even though fans know it it superior?

Its probably time I bow out of this subtopic...

- PT21

1) You are confused. The context of the conversation is how the coaching staff can make adjustments to the system in order to improve the Flyers transition game and attack time. Of course if the same system is executed by superior players, the results will likely be better but that is not the conversation.

2) Many, many veteran coaches are reluctant to make system changes and rely on what they used with success from the past. There is a group of coaches in the NHL who are playing superior systems. Some coaches are not. That is clear when you watch some teams play versus others. Just have to watch the Flyers archaic strong side repeated wheel breakouts. Throw in a reverse now and then.

You should bow out.

And just like that, Pens have big choices to make, no matter what they choose, no SC in the near future

The Flyers don't have a player that is in the upper echelon of skating speed but they are not a slow team. They're average and skating speed of their forwards as a whole is not the issue.
- MJL[/quote

Disagree on saying it is speed, it is speed and edge work , Flyers need both and have needed both