The teams aren’t irrelevant when you’re trying to say no one wants to play in Philly when the reality of my point is they only wanted to play in NY; theres a fine difference between avoiding a specific city vs only wanting to play for 1 specific team.
- arichardson22

the proof is right in front of you. All thing being equal the top free agents avoid philly.

Flyers ar e left picking from the nate brassard and yandles of the world. What a fall from grace.

So what if the off-season when only three teams were willing to take on his contract. Two of the three wanted more payment to do so. Why
- Peter Richards

Thats a good point. I cant tell you why teams wouldnt take him without knowing their cap structures but AZ surely took advantage of Fletch's shrewd negotiation skills

For those of us not cherry picking stats on Risto. He entered Fridays game as the the ONLY Flyer d man to be on the ice for more expected goals for then against. In fact the only d man over 50%. He grades out well in the RAPM at +0.101 which is designed to isolate individuals play…and is at 0.57 by Corsi. We all see his physical game he brings, his hustle, his puck moving ability.
I venture to guess the entire teams #s would suck if we only wanted to talk the last three games.
As most fans can agree Risto has gotten better after having a couple of un even games to start the season. Risto has never been a very good stat guy when it comes to the analytical world, but many GMs (you know guys with out hidden agenda’s) knew full well of the player. Despite all those fake 40 + point seasons that included pp points, they saw fit to meet Buffalo’s demand of at least a 1rst round pick. Low and behold being used in a proper role, not only does Risto pass the eye test he now has produced decent analytical numbers….in fact the best on the Flyers. Ahead of Provy!!!
The haters need to get a new shtick. Because even the analytics aren’t on their side.

- landros 2

A - Freak'n - Men!!

A - Freak'n - Men!!
- jd250

You're saying A-Freak'n-Men to a poster who insinuates that a post which referenced 4 different stats is cherry picking. While posting 2 stats and cherry picking. You continue to align yourself with poor sources just because they say what you want to believe.

Gorton was the GM of the team for 5 years and 10 months. The Rangers are playing well and have potential but 6+ years they're still not a legit contender. During Gorton's time as GM, they made the playoffs twice, won one round and missed the playoffs 4 straight years. It's amazing to me how some have no grasp at all of the facts and routinely distort the facts to float an agenda and a narrative. Sources who claim they know better and state that Hextall didn't get it done in 6 years.

- MJL

They tried to win when the king was still playing there. The letter they sent to the fans about the rebuild was in 2018. Those are the facts. Their team is more poised that the flyers to break out.

I’ll give you fox. As that was sneaky. They went after trouba as part of their rebuild.

They went after and signed pansrin. Hextal big signing in his time was jvr.

Rangers cleared house and drafted high. Yes. We also got a lottery pick.

They did a rebuild. Not a twenty year retooling process in a results orientated business. They told their fans this is what we are doing and executed said plan.

When hex left he said they were close to the next phase ( second phase). Phase three was a couple more years down the road. If he knew it was that far away why not clean house and acquire more assets.
- Peter Richards

First, very sorry i flagged your post. Meant to hit reply and missed (on mobile).

Rangers absolutely had a fire sale, but Idk if i can say they did the full rebuild as they mainly traded vets on expiring contracts. A full rebuild / tear down would have also included Z and Kreider. But in reality this is nit-picking (on my end). Any team that signs Panarin immediately becomes better and sadly he made it known early he wanted Rangers or Panthers (good friend Bob connection.) But personally I never get upset in free agency; its a two sided decision and no matter how hard a team tries it doesnt matter because it’s up to the player. We did have a lottery pick but sadly got the biggest bust in the top 10 (or 1st round) while Rangers landed Kakko and LaF, two guys who are already better and contributing more than Patrick. Just extremely bad luck with the Patrick pick. While the Rangers did vocalize their plan to season ticket holders, they kinda went against their own word / plan when Gorton was fired for missing the playoffs. Ultimately ownership grew somewhat inpatient (similar to Flyers with Ron) but seems the difference is Rangers hit on more picks than us.

the proof is right in front of you. All thing being equal the top free agents avoid philly.

Flyers ar e left picking from the nate brassard and yandles of the world. What a fall from grace.
- hello it's me 2050

What top free agents did you want to sign this last offseason (or 2)?

Every NHL team misses on 1st round picks.
- MJL

Of course they do, but the Flyers have failed to draft and develop enough players over the past decade. We were all filled with this narrative that the system was stacked, the cupboards were filled to the brim with talent. Well, whether due to injuries or just misses in the draft, the system is not that stacked and the cupboards have some gaping holes. If the goal of bringing in Hextall was to build around Giroux through the draft and then augment with NHL players as needed, this plan has failed!

First, very sorry i flagged your post. Meant to hit reply and missed (on mobile).

Rangers absolutely had a fire sale, but Idk if i can say they did the full rebuild as they mainly traded vets on expiring contracts. A full rebuild / tear down would have also included Z and Kreider. But in reality this is nit-picking (on my end). Any team that signs Panarin immediately becomes better and sadly he made it known early he wanted Rangers or Panthers (good friend Bob connection.) But personally I never get upset in free agency; its a two sided decision and no matter how hard a team tries it doesnt matter because it’s up to the player. We did have a lottery pick but sadly got the biggest bust in the top 10 (or 1st round) while Rangers landed Kakko and LaF, two guys who are already better and contributing more than Patrick. Just extremely bad luck with the Patrick pick. While the Rangers did vocalize their plan to season ticket holders, they kinda went against their own word / plan when Gorton was fired for missing the playoffs. Ultimately ownership grew somewhat inpatient (similar to Flyers with Ron) but seems the difference is Rangers hit on more picks than us.
- arichardson22

Right. Just saying they could’ve had more first round picks if we move other players earlier is all.

There was controversy around Horton being let go as well when the asked for Paros to resigned.

I guess I look at is their farm system and what not is more where I thought we would be at this time. 3 years ago we were listed as having a deep pool. Well that fizzled.

No worries about the flag. Nothing was personal or anything. Shouldn’t matter.

First, very sorry i flagged your post. Meant to hit reply and missed (on mobile).

Rangers absolutely had a fire sale, but Idk if i can say they did the full rebuild as they mainly traded vets on expiring contracts. A full rebuild / tear down would have also included Z and Kreider. But in reality this is nit-picking (on my end). Any team that signs Panarin immediately becomes better and sadly he made it known early he wanted Rangers or Panthers (good friend Bob connection.) But personally I never get upset in free agency; its a two sided decision and no matter how hard a team tries it doesnt matter because it’s up to the player. We did have a lottery pick but sadly got the biggest bust in the top 10 (or 1st round) while Rangers landed Kakko and LaF, two guys who are already better and contributing more than Patrick. Just extremely bad luck with the Patrick pick. While the Rangers did vocalize their plan to season ticket holders, they kinda went against their own word / plan when Gorton was fired for missing the playoffs. Ultimately ownership grew somewhat inpatient (similar to Flyers with Ron) but seems the difference is Rangers hit on more picks than us.
- arichardson22

They really haven't hit on more picks in the same time frame that Hextall was GM of the Flyers. They got absolutely nothing out of the 14,15 and 16 NHL drafts. Kapkko was drafted 2nd overall in 19 and has been extremely slow to develop.

Of course they do, but the Flyers have failed to draft and develop enough players over the past decade. We were all filled with this narrative that the system was stacked, the cupboards were filled to the brim with talent. Well, whether due to injuries or just misses in the draft, the system is not that stacked and the cupboards have some gaping holes. If the goal of bringing in Hextall was to build around Giroux through the draft and then augment with NHL players as needed, this plan has failed!
- jd250

It absolutely was and they still do have a solid prospect base. They have to do a better job in developing players. The Hextall plan did not fail. It was abandoned by management.

They really haven't hit on more picks in the same time frame that Hextall was GM of the Flyers. They got absolutely nothing out of the 14,15 and 16 NHL drafts. Kapkko was drafted 2nd overall in 19 and has been extremely slow to develop.
- MJL

Gordon started on July 1 2015.

If we are talking gm s look at the facts. He wasn’t the gm for the 14 or 15 draft.

Not sure why it's disappointing. It's expected to me. Look, despite how bad they are right now, there is still a lot of season left. They're missing a 2C and a top pairing defenseman. People can label that an excuse but losing that would hurt any team. Some teams can handle it better. The Flyers lack the team structure to weather it. Same as last year and you just hope the goaltending doesn't erode. Tremendous pressure on Hart game after game.

As far as the off season moves are concerned. My first thought is that I hope you've learned that this idea of a culture change was a bunch of nonsense. You're either a good team or you aren't. Winning culture is built by one thing only. Winning.

As far as the off season moves are concerned. I spoke with you many times about the risk of an overcorrection. There is a classic standard applied to trades. If you fill a hole with a trade but create a hole somewhere else, then it's not a good trade. Unless you can fill the hole you created elsewhere. You made a bullet point post on the trades in a previous post. Now I'll give you mine.

The Ellis trade from a strictly hockey viewpoint was a good trade. Ellis is clearly the best player in the deal. This trade did not create a hole elsewhere because they had enough centers at the time of the deal and they upgraded defensively.
However why does Nashville make the deal? They make the deal because they know that Ellis is declining and it a huge risk with 6 more years left on his deal and his injury history. He is well on his way to being a future cap anchor. Hopefully he comes back and helps the team.


The Atkinson deal traded a playmaker/transition player for more of shoot first player who can play on the PK and is a better defensive forward. This trade created a big hole on the team that the GM didn't fill elsewhere. The Flyers desperately miss Voracek's puck carrying ability and playmaking. The miss his production on the PP. Atkinson's value to the team would be increased if they had a strong play making center to play with him. Until Frost gets to that level if he can, the Flyers don't have that unless they want to move Giroux to center full time. This is the same issue affecting Farabee.


Now on to out favorite subject. Rasmus Ristolainen. You claim that Ristolainen is playing really well. He's not. He's clearly not. You repeatedly label him one of the best defenseman in the NHL. We just saw him play against 3 top teams in the NHL as a measuring stick to the impact he can make. Here are the results from those 3 games.

In 55:39 of 5 on 5 ice time

CF% 39.32% xGF% 37.92% SCF% 34.92% HDSCF% 38.71%

Now to be fair, these numbers are not all about Ristolainen. It's a combination of the player and his linemates.

I read all the time how people reference that 7 GM's were willing to trade for him. The reason for that is when you watch him play, you see the raw physical skills that this player has. He has the raw skills to be Shea 'fricken" Weber! However he doesn't make anywhere near that kind of impact. Why? Because hockey sense wise, he is a Neanderthal. He doesn't think the game well or anticipate or read the play. His positioning is suspect. At his best, he is just mediocre. Capable of playing some solid games here or there. He routinely floats around the ice and reacts after the play instead of before it. He is far too focused on his hitting game. NHL GM's think they can harness those skills, make him better and hide him on a 2nd pairing. On a better structured and more disciplined team, that maybe true.
This player is clearly not only not a difference maker but he is the wrong kind of player for this team. Not a player you trade what they did or re-sign for what they'll have to.
- MJL

I'll go paragraph by paragraph.
1. I agree with you
2. I don't agree with you still here. The culture needed to change, it had become stale. Even Jake had stated it and wanted a change. But yes, Winning fixes a multitude of sins.
3. If trades create other holes I agree they are not good ones. I don't perceive CF did that this off season though.
4. I would do the Ellis trade a thousand times over, I mean given what the Flyers gave up, how could you not. Yes a player of his size is going to come with risk, but my only hope is his current injury has nothing to do with his size, and just a common groin strain that many hockey players get. But clearly, for Ellis to be a viable player in this league into his 30s, he needs to change his training and conditioning.
5. I agree 100%, Jake was a possession guy on the PP, but I think the PP woes are philosophical more than anything else.
6. Very unfair of you post Risto's metrics for the last 3 games, since the entire teams metrics are just as poor or poorer. Furthermore, Risto's numbers before this 3 game stretch were some of the best on the team. Yes Risto is not perfect, clearly makes bad decisions and clearly does not anticipate the play well. Every player has flaws, Risto is no different. But the question is, can you live with those faults for what the player gives the team in return. For years we lived with Jake's faults (long shifts, lazy back check bad turnovers) because what he gave the Flyers was much more valuable. I think right now the same can be said of Risto, he gives the Flyers a lot more good than he takes away with this faults.

It absolutely was and they still do have a solid prospect base. They have to do a better job in developing players. The Hextall plan did not fail. It was abandoned by management.
- MJL

Ok, but wasn't that Hextall's job also, to build a system and hire the right people to develop his draft picks? I mean, that is Fletcher's job now also, and one can question whether moving Lappy down to LHV was the right move, but for all the flack Lappy gets, Frost looks a hell of a lot better now than he did when the season started, should Lappy get some credit?

I'll go paragraph by paragraph.
1. I agree with you
2. I don't agree with you still here. The culture needed to change, it had become stale. Even Jake had stated it and wanted a change. But yes, Winning fixes a multitude of sins.
3. If trades create other holes I agree they are not good ones. I don't perceive CF did that this off season though.
4. I would do the Ellis trade a thousand times over, I mean given what the Flyers gave up, how could you not. Yes a player of his size is going to come with risk, but my only hope is his current injury has nothing to do with his size, and just a common groin strain that many hockey players get. But clearly, for Ellis to be a viable player in this league into his 30s, he needs to change his training and conditioning.
5. I agree 100%, Jake was a possession guy on the PP, but I think the PP woes are philosophical more than anything else.
6. Very unfair of you post Risto's metrics for the last 3 games, since the entire teams metrics are just as poor or poorer. Furthermore, Risto's numbers before this 3 game stretch were some of the best on the team. Yes Risto is not perfect, clearly makes bad decisions and clearly does not anticipate the play well. Every player has flaws, Risto is no different. But the question is, can you live with those faults for what the player gives the team in return. For years we lived with Jake's faults (long shifts, lazy back check bad turnovers) because what he gave the Flyers was much more valuable. I think right now the same can be said of Risto, he gives the Flyers a lot more good than he takes away with this faults.
- jd250

Culture change is a myth. Even with all the evidence, you won't abandon that ridiculous idea.
It totally wasn't unfair to post Ristolainen's metrics for the 3 games against top level teams. It's a clear indicator of the impact that he is capable of making and if he is a difference maker. Again, you're using the wrong benchmark. The same as those that wanted to say that the team is better than last year. Ristolainen's metrics are mediocre. The same as he is as a player. Ristolainen has not come close to making the same impact that Voracek made when he was here as a a player. There is no information that you can offer to support that Ristolainen gives the Flyers a lot more good that what he takes away.

You're saying A-Freak'n-Men to a poster who insinuates that a post which referenced 4 different stats is cherry picking. While posting 2 stats and cherry picking. You continue to align yourself with poor sources just because they say what you want to believe.
- MJL

Its not about alignment ... there are factions on this forum, its just a bunch of fans with opinions, and I happen to agree with this opinion. Look, I like Risto, I like his game, I like his style, and I love his post game interviews. If you happen to hear him after last night's game you would have heard Risto state, and I am paraphrasing: "ya, you can't really feel good about scoring a goal when you are on the ice for 4 others in that period. Its my job to defend and I didn't do that." The guy is humble and honest, and I like that. I am rooting for him to succeed, and as I stated in a previous post I believe the good Risto brings far outweighs the bad.

Ok, but wasn't that Hextall's job also, to build a system and hire the right people to develop his draft picks? I mean, that is Fletcher's job now also, and one can question whether moving Lappy down to LHV was the right move, but for all the flack Lappy gets, Frost looks a hell of a lot better now than he did when the season started, should Lappy get some credit?
- jd250

I think it's fair to criticize the Flyers player development even when Hextall was here. Some of that was due to what happened previously. For example, the Flyers were forced to use Provorov as the teams top defenseman since he was 19 since they didn't have anyone else. I think that hurt the players development. They did the same thing to Myers. Provorov should've been breaking in on the 2nd pair with a vet and Myers on the 3rd pair.

the proof is right in front of you. All thing being equal the top free agents avoid philly.

Flyers ar e left picking from the nate brassard and yandles of the world. What a fall from grace.
- hello it's me 2050

JvR was the second top UFA to Tavares the season we signed him in 2018. Hayes was a top 5 UFA the season we signed him in 2019. Now we can’t afford any other top UFAs.

Roenick 2002
Forsberg 2005
Briere 2007
Jagr 2011
LeCavalier 2013

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Its not about alignment ... there are factions on this forum, its just a bunch of fans with opinions, and I happen to agree with this opinion. Look, I like Risto, I like his game, I like his style, and I love his post game interviews. If you happen to hear him after last night's game you would have heard Risto state, and I am paraphrasing: "ya, you can't really feel good about scoring a goal when you are on the ice for 4 others in that period. Its my job to defend and I didn't do that." The guy is humble and honest, and I like that. I am rooting for him to succeed, and as I stated in a previous post I believe the good Risto brings far outweighs the bad.
- jd250

I honestly could care less what a player says in a post game interview. I'm rooting for him to succeed also just like any other player. The information I see is that he just isn't that good. There is a ton not to like about his game.

Culture change is a myth. Even with all the evidence, you won't abandon that ridiculous idea.
It totally wasn't unfair to post Ristolainen's metrics for the 3 games against top level teams. It's a clear indicator of the impact that he is capable of making and if he is a difference maker. Again, you're using the wrong benchmark. The same as those that wanted to say that the team is better than last year. Ristolainen's metrics are mediocre. The same as he is as a player. Ristolainen has not come close to making the same impact that Voracek made when he was here as a a player. There is no information that you can offer to support that Ristolainen gives the Flyers a lot more good that what he takes away.
- MJL

The only evidence I have is what I watch in the games, which I have stated 1000 times already so I am not going to state them again. Though Risto was on the ice for 4 goals last night, so his metrics are really bad as a result, I don't blame him for one of those goals, not one. Yes he could have done more, anticipated better, etc. but those goals were 100% caused by bad turnovers, ill advised line changes, and poor back coverage by the forwards. Carter Hart could have saved 1 or 2 also.

Culture change is a myth. Even with all the evidence, you won't abandon that ridiculous idea.
It totally wasn't unfair to post Ristolainen's metrics for the 3 games against top level teams. It's a clear indicator of the impact that he is capable of making and if he is a difference maker. Again, you're using the wrong benchmark. The same as those that wanted to say that the team is better than last year. Ristolainen's metrics are mediocre. The same as he is as a player. Ristolainen has not come close to making the same impact that Voracek made when he was here as a a player. There is no information that you can offer to support that Ristolainen gives the Flyers a lot more good that what he takes away.
- MJL

Lol. You’re comparing risto to jake. Different positions. In looking at metrics how does risto stand so far against ghost myers sanhiem at 5v5. I’ll save you the time. His numbers are currently better. Which is why no one has been bashing him lately. People proclaimed how great myers could be. Still sitting as a healthy scratch.

Compare jake to cam that’s fair. Jake has done more on the pp but the numbers at 5 v5 favor cam. Add it the cap and the ability to sign other players. It’s a win.

One thing I don’t see this year is the constant whining. Part of the culture jake took with him. And ghost. Ghost will disappear later in the season when they figure out just take the body. He’s a head case too. His confidence will flounder again.

Culture change is a myth.
- MJL

Says the nerd who never likely played a sport in his life. If so he was a bench warmer. Ask people who have played at a high level if it is a myth.

I honestly could care less what a player says in a post game interview. I'm rooting for him to succeed also just like any other player. The information I see is that he just isn't that good. There is a ton not to like about his game.
- MJL

Yes, I understand. We are just never going to agree on this point. I like his game and I think he can part of the solution here.

I think it's fair to criticize the Flyers player development even when Hextall was here. Some of that was due to what happened previously. For example, the Flyers were forced to use Provorov as the teams top defenseman since he was 19 since they didn't have anyone else. I think that hurt the players development. They did the same thing to Myers. Provorov should've been breaking in on the 2nd pair with a vet and Myers on the 3rd pair.
- MJL

Forced. Well doesn't that fall on the GM to address that so a 19 year old is not put into that position? Saint Ronnie failed ivan and the other young d at the time for not getting them the help they needed. That is part of the failed development process.

But hey that doesn't fall on Saint Ronnie right. He did a very good job

JvR was the second top UFA to Tavares the season we signed him in 2018. Hayes was a top 5 UFA the season we signed him in 2019. Now we can’t afford any other top UFAs.

Roenick 2002
Forsberg 2005
Briere 2007
Jagr 2011
LeCavalier 2013

You don’t know what you’re talking about.
- SuperSchennBros

I am taking about the last decade. Even a dummy like you I figured can figure that out.

Go back and read my post. All things being equal. Hayes was overpaid. Simple as that. As was JVR. Both are real diff makers don't you think? Vinny and Jagur. Give me a break holmes on those 2.

If only i was you and knew what I was talking about. Go flyers.