For those of us not cherry picking stats on Risto. He entered Fridays game as the the ONLY Flyer d man to be on the ice for more expected goals for then against. In fact the only d man over 50%. He grades out well in the RAPM at +0.101 which is designed to isolate individuals play…and is at 0.57 by Corsi. We all see his physical game he brings, his hustle, his puck moving ability.
I venture to guess the entire teams #s would suck if we only wanted to talk the last three games.
As most fans can agree Risto has gotten better after having a couple of un even games to start the season. Risto has never been a very good stat guy when it comes to the analytical world, but many GMs (you know guys with out hidden agenda’s) knew full well of the player. Despite all those fake 40 + point seasons that included pp points, they saw fit to meet Buffalo’s demand of at least a 1rst round pick. Low and behold being used in a proper role, not only does Risto pass the eye test he now has produced decent analytical numbers….in fact the best on the Flyers. Ahead of Provy!!!
The haters need to get a new shtick. Because even the analytics aren’t on their side.

- landros 2

It's actually 48.7 Corsi on 5-on-5.


Certainly, All of Risto's numbers are the polar opposite of what they were in BUF. But the sample size, and the fact that he is being compared to Ellis-less-Provy, and Braun and Sanheim give me pause, as do how stable were Risto's #s in BUF.

So let me make a friendly wager with you. If Ellis comes back and plays say 40 consecutive games: Risto's numbers during those games will be no more than 3rd or 4th worse during that span.

EDIT: 3rd or 4th worse among Defencemen I mean.

Yes, it is a mystery to where the restraints on our rebuld came from. Why did we never commit to a full rebuild. Why did we give Voracek that contract? Why did we sign JVR. And so on. Was that Hextall's idea or were those restraints placed on him from above?
- PT21

Why did they give Voracek that contract. He was 25 years old and had just finished 2nd in the league in assists, 5th in scoring and was a 1st team NHL all star.

No they didn't. They traded for veteran players such a Zbanaejad. Traded a first round pick and a younger Neil Pionk for Jacob Trouba. Gave up draft picks for Brendan Smith. Used free agency. It was really a combination of things. To this point, they really haven't done anything.
- MJL

Eh? Where did I say that they didn't obtain veteran/star players with the money freed up?

Rebuild: new players
Full: completely

As Arich22 pointed out, they kept some good players. AFter all, even Det has kept Larkin. But by and large, they put a completely new team on the ice, so it was pretty close to a full rebuild.

Yes, it is a mystery to where the restraints on our rebuld came from. Why did we never commit to a full rebuild. Why did we give Voracek that contract? Why did we sign JVR. And so on. Was that Hextall's idea or were those restraints placed on him from above?
- PT21

Hextall never wanted to give JVR that deal.

It's actually 48.7 Corsi on 5-on-5.


Certainly, All of Risto's numbers are the polar opposite of what they were in BUF. But the sample size, and the fact that he is being compared to Ellis-less-Provy, and Braun and Sanheim give me pause, as do how stable were Risto's #s in BUF.

So let me make a friendly wager with you. If Ellis comes back and plays say 40 consecutive games: Risto's numbers during those games will be no more than 3rd or 4th worse during that span.
- PT21

What’s the wager ? Not understanding what your saying in that last paragraph.

Eh? Where did I say that they didn't obtain veteran/star players with the money freed up?

Rebuild: new players
Full: completely

As Arich22 pointed out, they kept some good players. AFter all, even Det has kept Larkin. But by and large, they put a completely new team on the ice, so it was pretty close to a full rebuild.
- PT21

You stated "Rangers committed explicitly to a full rebuild". Teams that do that, don't trade first round picks. Have you ever looked at the turnover rate for most NHL teams? Look at the Flyers roster from 2 years ago. I think 12 players are gone.

What’s the wager ? Not understanding what your saying in that last paragraph.
- landros 2

If Ellis plays say at least 40 out of 45 games during a span, Risto will have the 3rd or 4th worst Corsi, XGA% and HDCA% in that span.

That's the wager. What it is for we can determine together.

Hextall never wanted to give JVR that deal.
- Just5

Agree. This move was unlike anything he preached. Scott and Co. 100% forced his hand.

Why did they give Voracek that contract. He was 25 years old and had just finished 2nd in the league in assists, 5th in scoring and was a 1st team NHL all star.
- MJL

And he was coming off a season where he had a meteoric first half and had slowed down significantly in the 2nd, and was part of two ineffectual first lines in the previous 2 playoff series (Debs, Rangers). And most importantly, if you are going to do a rebuild, you cannot keep good players like Voracek around. They are not good enough to get you far in the post season. They are however good enough to keep you from picking high.

Everything you said points to why he should have been traded at peak value.

If Ellis plays say at least 40 out of 45 games during a span, Risto will have the 3rd or 4th worst Corsi, XGA% and HDCA% in that span.

That's the wager. What it is for we can determine together.


- PT21

On that scenario, I agree . I do not think Risto is as good as Provy or Ellis. I do think his numbers would be better over all as it’s pretty obvious who you want playing the toughest minutes in that scenario. ( and it’s not him and Sanheim).

Agree. This move was unlike anything he preached. Scott and Co. 100% forced his hand.
- arichardson22

Even if that is true which I believe but can offer no evidence to support it. He was still the GM.

You stated "Rangers committed explicitly to a full rebuild". Teams that do that, don't trade first round picks. Have you ever looked at the turnover rate for most NHL teams? Look at the Flyers roster from 2 years ago. I think 12 players are gone.
- MJL

In the full rebuild model you are thinking off, it is probably very draft centered. They essentially did draft + trade simultaneously towards the rebuild.

I agree, it is rare. But then, they haven't gone deep in the post season yet. I have strong doubts about Mike Z being the 1C in a deep playoff run.

Not sure if it was mentioned, Thompson waiting on MRI results. AV expects him to be out a while

On that scenario, I agree . I do not think Risto is as good as Provy or Ellis. I do think his numbers would be better over all as it’s pretty obvious who you want playing the toughest minutes in that scenario. ( and it’s not him and Sanheim).
- landros 2

Ok I will go stronger: when he is on the ice, those stats I mentioned will worsen relative to team average than when he is on the bench.

Whoever wins buys the other a $50 gift card for John's Roast Pork

And he was coming off a season where he had a meteoric first half and had slowed down significantly in the 2nd, and was part of two ineffectual first lines in the previous 2 playoff series (Debs, Rangers). And most importantly, if you are going to do a rebuild, you cannot keep good players like Voracek around. They are not good enough to get you far in the post season. They are however good enough to keep you from picking high.

Everything you said points to why he should have been traded at peak value.
- PT21

In that season, Voracek put up 16G and 32A in the first half and 6G and 26A in the 2nd half. Goal scoring is what fell off, which he is no known for. The Flyers didn't make the playoffs that season.

Your statement that if you are going to do a rebuild, you cannot keep good players like Voracek around is one of the more comical and absurd statements you've ever made.

Everything I said points to why he was re-signed and I feel confident that unless blown away with a trade offer generated by another team. Every GM in the league would've re-signed him. He looked to be on the verge of stardom.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/flyers_need_to_reset_their_technique_and_evolve_past_dump_and_chase/s1_16481_34806065

written 6 months ago....
- hello it's me 2050

Where I really can’t stand it is the pp.

Not sure if it was mentioned, Thompson waiting on MRI results. AV expects him to be out a while
- arichardson22

While I don't like to see anybody injured. Good. Hopefully Brassard will be back soon and they can play him on the 4th line.

In that season, Voracek put up 15G and 35A in the first half and 10G and 28A in the 2nd half. Not a big difference. The Flyers didn't make the playoffs that season.

Your statement that if you are going to do a rebuild, you cannot keep good players like Voracek around is one of the more comical and absurd statements you've ever made.

Everything I said points to why he was re-signed and I feel confident that unless blown away with a trade offer generated by another team. Every GM in the league would've re-signed him. He looked to be on the verge of stardom.
- MJL

That's a ~25% difference in points and a 50% difference in goals! Thats the difference between a 76 point season and a 100 pt season!

Of course it is. Because you don't really understand what a rebuild for the purpose of contention means. Neither extensive data nor reason will ever convince you. You will keep saying: "What about the teams that did a rebuild who did not win the cup" which is the same logic against vaccination where people say: what about all those guys who got the vaccine and still got the virus?

I'm glad they cancelled the upcoming game against the isles. Keep that flu out of our locker room.
Glad to see the NHL actually being proactive with this

While I don't like to see anybody injured. Good. Hopefully Brassard will be back soon and they can play him on the 4th line.
- MJL

I had the same reaction lol

Ok I will go stronger: when he is on the ice, those stats I mentioned will worsen relative to team average than when he is on the bench.

Whoever wins buys the other a $50 gift card for John's Roast Pork
- PT21

To many variables (unfortunately) like guys coming and going…more injuries. Besides how could I get you your winnings after I obviously lose, when I’m not even sure I’m allowed back in your country? Lol.
With that said I still think his over all numbers analytically will be the best of his career.

Why did they give Voracek that contract. He was 25 years old and had just finished 2nd in the league in assists, 5th in scoring and was a 1st team NHL all star.
- MJL

Then why did Saint Ronie not try to build around him and others while they were in their prime? I know why he had no real plan and failed.

That's a ~25% difference in points and a 50% difference in goals! Thats the difference between a 76 point season and a 100 pt season!

Of course it is. Because you don't really understand what a rebuild for the purpose of contention means. Neither extensive data nor reason will ever convince you. You will keep saying: "What about the teams that did a rebuild who did not win the cup" which is the same logic against vaccination where people say: what about all those guys who got the vaccine and still got the virus?
- PT21

It's not a big difference and it's not evidence of your premise that it should've been used as a reason for not re-signing him. I believe he had 14 points in the last 15 games which is strong down the stretch.


It's not what I don't understand. It's that you have no idea what you're talking about. You can't offer any data and you know that. What is a full rebuild is completely subjective.

You're also wrong about what I keep saying. You can't even get that right. That is in regards to tanking. Which you never understood what that actually is.

This team is in trouble

I don’t think he’s perfect, I just think there are things he does that help. I agree there are things Risto does that compliment the d on overall. He’s the exact type of d man they needed to add this past summer. Over all I think Risto has been better then Sanheim, which isn’t surprising he’s a better all around player. I actually thought Sanheim put together 7-8 games where by he played really good…no one was good against TB or the Canes.
- landros 2

yes, agreed. The thing with Sanheim is he needs to be stronger on the puck in his own end, and he needs to join the rush and skate, that is his strongest asset.