Jays have pieces that they could move to get Ramirez, and at $12M for the year, they will go hard after him. Cleveland will be rebuilding - Jays can offer a catcher not named Moreno, a couple of prospects and Grichuk.
- winsix

A big name prospect will almost assuredly need to be included.

Gabriel Moreno or Jordan Groshans or Orelvis Martinez. Then they'll ask for someone off the roster. Maybe also cash.

Holl got off to a bad start. I think he's been better of late. Dermott hasn't played better than Holl in the last 10-15 games, but he was better in the beginning. I mean a testament to Dermott . . . he played his best hockey when no one else was playing well at all. As soon as people around him started playing better, he started playing worse. OR . . . and this is a theory - Dermott always sucked and he's the static bottom - like the Mendoza line of hockey. "This is the suck line. Any worse than here, and you suck."

The other reason to keep a guy like Holl around is that he's been through it. He's been beaten around and come out on the other side. We have 2 rookies who have played well so far and I sincerely hope it keeps up. They haven't been thoroughly smacked around and beaten up yet - emotionally and mentally, leaving the physical part out for now. The Toronto media is harsh. The Toronto fans are jerks. Things are great right now and it's all rainbows and care bears. It's like the good part of a Skittles commercial in Toronto right now. But if we lose 4 in a row, it'll turn dark and grey and there were be screaming and it will be like wearing the ring while the Nazgul hunt you down in Lord of the Rings. Scapegoats will be found. Holl has been the scapegoat and can deal with it. Can Liljegren? Can Sandin? Can Dermott?

I'd keep Holl for now because you're not getting someone who can fill in doing what he does as well as he does and still be a lightning rod for criticism.
- Monkeypunk

Yeah I’m a tad surprised he got it but whatever. I know he’s hated but he’s third on the team for hits and first for blocked shots.

Hate to say it but the problem with that pairing this year has been primarily Muzzin.

Either way there won’t be any changes moving forward… they’re tied for first ffs lol

Liljegren will be sent down while they try and show off Mikheyev but I’m willing to be for no more than half a dozen games
- Dozzer

Unpopular take here but Sandin should go down before Liljegren.

Liljegren has been better, period. More well rounded, better defensively, less mistake prone, less likely to be caught out of position. More NHL ready.

And he also plays the right naturally, which unless other changes are made is needed far more. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Pretty safe to say Lou isn’t going to trade his bargain priced d man for a couple of his former minor league guys when he was GM of Toronto lol
- Dozzer

Agreed. And I'm not a Holl hater per se, his $2m added with Micheyev or Engvall $ would allow for decent upgrade at #4. Plus, Lilj can stay in the line up where he belongs.

Hate to see Lilj get stuck in the "minor" trap where he actually stops developing. He needs the big ice. He looks great up with the big club so far IMO and that's awesome for the team.

Holl got off to a bad start. I think he's been better of late. Dermott hasn't played better than Holl in the last 10-15 games, but he was better in the beginning. I mean a testament to Dermott . . . he played his best hockey when no one else was playing well at all. As soon as people around him started playing better, he started playing worse. OR . . . and this is a theory - Dermott always sucked and he's the static bottom - like the Mendoza line of hockey. "This is the suck line. Any worse than here, and you suck."

The other reason to keep a guy like Holl around is that he's been through it. He's been beaten around and come out on the other side. We have 2 rookies who have played well so far and I sincerely hope it keeps up. They haven't been thoroughly smacked around and beaten up yet - emotionally and mentally, leaving the physical part out for now. The Toronto media is harsh. The Toronto fans are jerks. Things are great right now and it's all rainbows and care bears. It's like the good part of a Skittles commercial in Toronto right now. But if we lose 4 in a row, it'll turn dark and grey and there were be screaming and it will be like wearing the ring while the Nazgul hunt you down in Lord of the Rings. Scapegoats will be found. Holl has been the scapegoat and can deal with it. Can Liljegren? Can Sandin? Can Dermott?

I'd keep Holl for now because you're not getting someone who can fill in doing what he does as well as he does and still be a lightning rod for criticism.
- Monkeypunk

Personally, I believe the Leafs need a Top 6 forward option more than they a d-man at this point in time. (T.J. Miller would be amazeballs, though maybe too costly)

I'm not sold on Holl being on the 2nd pair (I never have been) and there are certainly better options out there available on any number of teams, but if the team keeps playing solid defensive hockey on all fronts, then I think adding more fire power and grit on one of the top line is the way to go.

A lot of hockey yet to play so who the hell knows what may happen. Just hope injuries to our stars can be avoided.

A big name prospect will almost assuredly need to be included.

Gabriel Moreno or Jordan Groshans or Orelvis Martinez. Then they'll ask for someone off the roster. Maybe also cash.
- GreatGigInTheSky

They can have Groshans, I think Martinez stays. Grichuk would play every day for Cleveland. They could include Kirk or McGuire as well.

Leafs are tied for 1st with only Washington in the entire NHL but you asshats are talking baseball???

#baseballbuzz sucks.

GLG!


Trade Engvall and Holl, find a nice #4RD to pair with Muzz for $3M and we're golden! Keep swapping in Dermott and Lilj until one clearly beats out the other.
- underhill14

Who you going to get for those 2 stiffs?

Gudbranson?

*whistles and waits*

Holl got off to a bad start. I think he's been better of late. Dermott hasn't played better than Holl in the last 10-15 games, but he was better in the beginning. I mean a testament to Dermott . . . he played his best hockey when no one else was playing well at all. As soon as people around him started playing better, he started playing worse. OR . . . and this is a theory - Dermott always sucked and he's the static bottom - like the Mendoza line of hockey. "This is the suck line. Any worse than here, and you suck."

The other reason to keep a guy like Holl around is that he's been through it. He's been beaten around and come out on the other side. We have 2 rookies who have played well so far and I sincerely hope it keeps up. They haven't been thoroughly smacked around and beaten up yet - emotionally and mentally, leaving the physical part out for now. The Toronto media is harsh. The Toronto fans are jerks. Things are great right now and it's all rainbows and care bears. It's like the good part of a Skittles commercial in Toronto right now. But if we lose 4 in a row, it'll turn dark and grey and there were be screaming and it will be like wearing the ring while the Nazgul hunt you down in Lord of the Rings. Scapegoats will be found. Holl has been the scapegoat and can deal with it. Can Liljegren? Can Sandin? Can Dermott?

I'd keep Holl for now because you're not getting someone who can fill in doing what he does as well as he does and still be a lightning rod for criticism.
- Monkeypunk

Dermott was hurt earlier in the season and they still put him in ahead of Holl. He played his first game in 2 weeks yesterday and was better than Holl. I mean, Dermott is decent. I ain't pumping his tires in saying this. He's a good guy to have as the 6th or 7th. But he's absolutely still playing better than Holl.

At the soonest possible time, the Leafs should trade Holl and free the team $2M that can maybe be used elsewhere. But also improve the team by getting him off of it. Because he does nothing well and Muzzin isn't playing as well as he has in previous years to cover for all of Holl's shortcomings. They're actually an awful pairing, since neither of them can skate well enough to cover for the others mistakes.

Holl seems a decent fellow. His sound-byte after the Marlies won the Calder Cup is still one of my favourites, and it seems like he's liked in the room. But the team is undeniably better with him not on it.

Unpopular take here but Sandin should go down before Liljegren.

Liljegren has been better, period. More well rounded, better defensively, less mistake prone, less likely to be caught out of position. More NHL ready.

And he also plays the right naturally, which unless other changes are made is needed far more. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

They’re not going to send down their 2nd PP d man tho.

I don’t disagree with you but it’s rather obvious who Keefe sees as the 6th/7th d men and it’s Liljegren and Dermott. Holl was once in the mix but he’s been playing half decent since he was put back in so as long as he keeps that up he’ll be in the lineup.

Mikheyev and Mrazek return (estimated for roughly the same time), Liljegren, Woll, Semyonov, and Clifford get sent to the marlies (hopefully Clifford clears, he did for St. Louis so I’m not too worried). They show off Mikheyev and trade him quickly hopefully and bring Liljegren and Clifford back up.

They’re not going to send down their 2nd PP d man tho.

I don’t disagree with you but it’s rather obvious who Keefe sees as the 6th/7th d men and it’s Liljegren and Dermott. Holl was once in the mix but he’s been playing half decent since he was put back in so as long as he keeps that up he’ll be in the lineup.

Mikheyev and Mrazek return (estimated for roughly the same time), Liljegren, Woll, Semyonov, and Clifford get sent to the marlies (hopefully Clifford clears, he did for St. Louis so I’m not too worried). They show off Mikheyev and trade him quickly hopefully and bring Liljegren and Clifford back up.
- Dozzer

They might do if they brought in a Top 4 d-man who can handle PPQB2 duties.

Not saying they will but that would be about the only realistic scenario that sees Sandin sent to the Marlies.

Personally, I believe the Leafs need a Top 6 forward option more than they a d-man at this point in time. (T.J. Miller would be amazeballs, though maybe too costly)

I'm not sold on Holl being on the 2nd pair (I never have been) and there are certainly better options out there available on any number of teams, but if the team keeps playing solid defensive hockey on all fronts, then I think adding more fire power and grit on one of the top line is the way to go.

A lot of hockey yet to play so who the hell knows what may happen. Just hope injuries to our stars can be avoided.
- mjones242

Omg will you stop dreaming about Miller please? Lol

Seriously tho they already have half the cap in the top two line there won’t be another highly paid forward brought in.

Yeah I’m a tad surprised he got it but whatever. I know he’s hated but he’s third on the team for hits and first for blocked shots.

Hate to say it but the problem with that pairing this year has been primarily Muzzin.

Either way there won’t be any changes moving forward… they’re tied for first ffs lol

Liljegren will be sent down while they try and show off Mikheyev but I’m willing to be for no more than half a dozen games
- Dozzer

Muzzin hasn't been good but has played much better when paired with Liljegren and then Brodie. He's not what he used to be and can't continue to carry Holl around.

I agree, though. Liljegren will for sure be sent down even though he's proven he deserves to be in the lineup every single day.

They might do if they brought in a Top 4 d-man who can handle PPQB2 duties.

Not saying they will but that would be about the only realistic scenario that sees Sandin sent to the Marlies.
- mjones242

They’re tied for first. No big moves are coming. Believing otherwise is nothing more than a fantasy tbh.

Holl and Engvall aren't old enough to interest Lou, and neither of their games have any muck to them. Why would they trade Mayfield who's making $1.45m for 2 more years for the opportunity to pay Holl and Engvall $3.25m when Engvall's deal is up at the end of this year, and Holl's is next year? Especially if Mayfield is better?
- Monkeypunk

Robertson may peak their interest

Muzzin hasn't been good but has played much better when paired with Liljegren and then Brodie. He's not what he used to be and can't continue to carry Holl around.

I agree, though. Liljegren will for sure be sent down even though he's proven he deserves to be in the lineup every single day.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Yup, he’s the one they’re guaranteed not to lose.

I’m truly hoping they find a taker for Mikheyev quickly so they can keep Liljegren with the leafs and not have him with the marlies only being brought up to cover injuries

Omg will you stop dreaming about Miller please? Lol

Seriously tho they already have half the cap in the top two line there won’t be another highly paid forward brought in.
- Dozzer

Kerfoot + Ritchie = 6M

Unpopular take here but Sandin should go down before Liljegren.

Liljegren has been better, period. More well rounded, better defensively, less mistake prone, less likely to be caught out of position. More NHL ready.

And he also plays the right naturally, which unless other changes are made is needed far more. 🤷🏻‍♂️
- joel878

I agree. But it's unlikely to happen.

They’re tied for first. No big moves are coming. Believing otherwise is nothing more than a fantasy tbh.
- Dozzer

I'm thinking more about the TDL and less about where this team sits 23 games in.

Dermott was hurt earlier in the season and they still put him in ahead of Holl. He played his first game in 2 weeks yesterday and was better than Holl. I mean, Dermott is decent. I ain't pumping his tires in saying this. He's a good guy to have as the 6th or 7th. But he's absolutely still playing better than Holl.

At the soonest possible time, the Leafs should trade Holl and free the team $2M that can maybe be used elsewhere. But also improve the team by getting him off of it. Because he does nothing well and Muzzin isn't playing as well as he has in previous years to cover for all of Holl's shortcomings. They're actually an awful pairing, since neither of them can skate well enough to cover for the others mistakes.

Holl seems a decent fellow. His sound-byte after the Marlies won the Calder Cup is still one of my favourites, and it seems like he's liked in the room. But the team is undeniably better with him not on it.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Hell, as much as Holl sucks ass and the Leafs are obviously better without him, I could live with him playing 10 minutes a game on the 3rd pairing (also not playing every game). Basically, only playing PK to save the good defensemen to play the other times.

Then trade his useless ass in the off-season.

Omg will you stop dreaming about Miller please? Lol

Seriously tho they already have half the cap in the top two line there won’t be another highly paid forward brought in.
- Dozzer

Seeing how Jack Campbell is going to get a significant raise, Rielly already got one, Kase Is a UFA and will want more, it's hard to see Leafs not moving significant money out. Miller does not fit in the current cap situation any way you slice it.

Kerfoot + Ritchie = 6M




- mjones242

No one will take Ritchie (who leads the team in hits too) and they’re never going to trade their most versatile forward Kerfoot. He can play both offensive and defensive roles at C or the the wing. Also tied for 5th in team scoring.

They can have Groshans, I think Martinez stays. Grichuk would play every day for Cleveland. They could include Kirk or McGuire as well.
- winsix

I really like Groshans, though.

But of the 3, trading him does make the most sense.

I'm thinking more about the TDL and less about where this team sits 23 games in.
- mjones242

I’m still willing to bet they don’t do much even at the deadline

Seeing how Jack Campbell is going to get a significant raise, Rielly already got one, Kase Is a UFA and will want more, it's hard to see Leafs not moving significant money out. Miller does not fit in the current cap situation any way you slice it.
- winsix

Handled in the off-season. Not trades. That’s not how cup contenders work.

Kerf’s play the last bit makes him tough to trade.

Sandin > Lily, both playing well but Sandin’s #’s are better right across the board…both have good #’s so I’m not knocking either one….I think they’re both a little soft and get beat with speed but so do Holl/Muzzin.


GLG