It isn't and Fox is a great player. All I posted prior was that there are other great players out, the key is finding them. I didn't think that would be a controversial post, but even a one word post like "hello" can be made controversial on this forum by some.
- jd250

There is reality and there is fantasy. UFA's like Panarin don't come around often in the current NHL climate. Neither do unsigned UFA's like Fox. Both players are major keys to the Rangers rise. To rely on that and to think that your team can replicate that, is what the issue is. You're trying to make it like people are misconstruing what you post. That is not happening. You're just being called out for what you posted.

Do you know why hockey writers give us a top 10 prospect pool? Because of volume.

Now go back, and check which of our current prospects crack a top 10 prospect pool individually. To help you out, I have provided their names below this sentence.
- PT21

lol

How was it luck?? They had the foresight to outbid everyone for Panarin wno was a UFA...and with Fox they gave up two 2nds to get him before he became a UFA and could have gone anywhere...Was Brassard for Zibanejad and Spooner for Strome luck?/..Trading Nash and getting Lindgren?...good scouting and decisions
- hfc355

Both Panarin and Fox only wanted to play for the Rangers.

We will know in about 10 games, since historically this is how long it takes a new coach to get everyone comfortably playing their system when a change occurs mid season.
- jd250

What exactly will we know? What is the goal? Just to have an improved team? Or to build towards becoming a true contender and winning a Stanley Cup?

Its nice to see big market teams do things the honest way instead of the way we do things.
- PT21

This is a really bad statement. There is nothing dishonest about the way the Flyers have done things. It's not the right way, but trying to win and improve the team is not the equivalent of not doing things the honest way.

What exactly will we know? What is the goal? Just to have an improved team? Or to build towards becoming a true contender and winning a Stanley Cup?
- MJL

why cant you do both? You need to incrementally improve each year. Who goes from not making the playoffs to the champs?

why cant you do both? You need to incrementally improve each year. Who goes from not making the playoffs to the champs?
- bradster

the st. louis blues apparently.

Both Panarin and Fox only wanted to play for the Rangers.
- MJL

They freed up the money to sign someone like him. If he had wanted to come to Philly, we would not have had the salary space to sign him. (Btw, Isles offered more money, and they may not play in Manhattan, but he could have stayed there easily if he wanted).

Re: Fox, I assume op was referring to original trade, where Fox's wishes were hardly of any consequence, as he was on ELC. Interesting btw, that Canes trade Fox to Rangers, and then end up with DeAngelo.

This is a really bad statement. There is nothing dishonest about the way the Flyers have done things. It's not the right way, but trying to win and improve the team is not the equivalent of not doing things the honest way.
- MJL

Well, I believe it was cynical and dishonest from a hockey perspective. They first sold the mirage that this team was on a contending track. Then they sold the mirage that this team was a reshuffle away. They did this because commercially this was the best way for them. I simply do not believe that the organization truly believed the steps taken in the past decade were really the steps they would have taken to win the cup if money was not an issue.

They freed up the money to sign someone like him. If he had wanted to come to Philly, we would not have had the salary space to sign him. (Btw, Isles offered more money, and they may not play in Manhattan, but he could have stayed there easily if he wanted).

Re: Fox, I assume op was referring to original trade, where Fox's wishes were hardly of any consequence, as he was on ELC. Interesting btw, that Canes trade Fox to Rangers, and then end up with DeAngelo.
- PT21

The Flyers took on over 10M this year in adding Ellis and Ristolainen. Are you telling me that they couldn't have made the move they made with Gostisbehere and traded Patrick Haag and Myers to make the room? Of course they could've. Panarin wanted to play with the Rangers. The Flyers signed Hayes a few years ago. It wasn't due to cap space.

Fox was unsigned by both Calgary and Carolina. That's why they both moved him. He wouldn't sign there. He was signed to an ELC by the Rangers.

Do you know why hockey writers give us a top 10 prospect pool? Because of volume.

Now go back, and check which of our current prospects crack a top 10 prospect pool individually. To help you out, I have provided their names below this sentence.
- PT21

So, our prospects suck because we don't have any in the top 10? That statement just confirms the strong impression about your ideas that your many posts suggest.

Well, I believe it was cynical and dishonest from a hockey perspective. They first sold the mirage that this team was on a contending track. Then they sold the mirage that this team was a reshuffle away. They did this because commercially this was the best way for them. I simply do not believe that the organization truly believed the steps taken in the past decade were really the steps they would have taken to win the cup if money was not an issue.
- PT21

I think you have it completely wrong. They didn't sell a mirage. They firmly thought they were on that track. It's far more incompetence by upper management than it is dishonesty.

the st. louis blues apparently.
- Ftown19125

Looking at record...

12: playoffs
13:playoffs
14:playoffs
15:conference finals
16:playoffs
17:playoffs
18:no playoffs
19: SC champs

(And several 100 point seasons interspersed in the years befoe cup.)

the st. louis blues apparently.
- Ftown19125

ok, you should copy their plan then

The Flyers took on over 10M this year in adding Ellis and Ristolainen. Are you telling me that they couldn't have made the move they made with Gostisbehere and traded Patrick Haag and Myers to make the room? Of course they could've. Panarin wanted to play with the Rangers. The Flyers signed Hayes a few years ago. It wasn't due to cap space.

Fox was unsigned by both Calgary and Carolina. That's why they both moved him. He wouldn't sign there. He was signed to an ELC by the Rangers.
- MJL

Ellis and Risto were seen as needs. It followed a debacle of a season. The brand value was being damaged.

At the time of the Panarin signing, Giroux played the same position, and had 85 points in 82 games that season. Hardly the same imperative.

- Tomahawk

They freed up the money to sign someone like him. If he had wanted to come to Philly, we would not have had the salary space to sign him. (Btw, Isles offered more money, and they may not play in Manhattan, but he could have stayed there easily if he wanted).

Re: Fox, I assume op was referring to original trade, where Fox's wishes were hardly of any consequence, as he was on ELC. Interesting btw, that Canes trade Fox to Rangers, and then end up with DeAngelo.
- PT21

And deangelo is killing it for Carolina. Basically a point a game dman. I was Leary about bringing him here but wonder if chuck kicked the tires? Looks like I was wrong and he would’ve been a great add.

The Flyers took on over 10M this year in adding Ellis and Ristolainen. Are you telling me that they couldn't have made the move they made with Gostisbehere and traded Patrick Haag and Myers to make the room? Of course they could've. Panarin wanted to play with the Rangers. The Flyers signed Hayes a few years ago. It wasn't due to cap space.

Fox was unsigned by both Calgary and Carolina. That's why they both moved him. He wouldn't sign there. He was signed to an ELC by the Rangers.
- MJL

You were the one saying that this team is the team that went on the 30 game hot streak and not the team of how we played last year. And that covid was a big part of them being bad last year. So if that was true, it made sense to try and get better from the hot 30 games stretch they went on.

Now its apparent to everyone that the 30 games stretch was the anomaly, and we are the team that crapped the bed last year.

So, our prospects suck because we don't have any in the top 10? That statement just confirms the strong impression about your ideas that your many posts suggest.
- iamscore2day

This is a variation of the draft high argument, which I have beaten to death here.

Go back to the SC winners of the past 16 years, and see who has EVER won the cup without having a top 10 prospect in their ranks playing a critical role in the cup. You will come up with 1 team: Boston. That's it.

Never draft for need, it's stupid.
- DrMidnite

if you're undecided between several players, go for need

I think you have it completely wrong. They didn't sell a mirage. They firmly thought they were on that track. It's far more incompetence by upper management than it is dishonesty.
- MJL

I simply do not believe it.

And deangelo is killing it for Carolina. Basically a point a game dman. I was Leary about bringing him here but wonder if chuck kicked the tires? Looks like I was wrong and he wouldn’t even been a great add.
- Hextall271

He stepped into an elite D, with forwards who were well suited to playing a fast, transitional game. Those are his strengths. He would not have done as well here, imo.

He stepped into an elite D, with forwards who were well suited to playing a fast, transitional game. Those are his strengths. He would not have done as well here, imo.
- PT21

He is just a solid player and would do well almost anywhere. Not sure if Chuck kicked these tires or not.

He is just a solid player and would do well almost anywhere. Not sure if Chuck kicked these tires or not.
- iamscore2day

Well, he has apparently well documented deficiencies playing deep in his own end.

In our team, he would be in the middle of various scrambles caused by defensive miscues. Think of what happened with Ghost.

This is a variation of the draft high argument, which I have beaten to death here.

Go back to the SC winners of the past 16 years, and see who has EVER won the cup without having a top 10 prospect in their ranks playing a critical role in the cup. You will come up with 1 team: Boston. That's it.
- PT21

Well, we have only had 1 high pick recently and that did not work out. Criticizing them for that pick is legit but all this "sky is falling" crap is just not right. We have a solid prospect pool. The NHL and minor league teams both appear to need better coaching.
It is all on Cliff right now to handle this and not do something stupid. Unfortunately, he is projecting wobbly right now.