That's what bad drafting looks like. The list is extensive. Rubstov, O'Brien and Morin were terrible picks the day they were made. Even Sanheim was a bit of a stretch, he came out of absolutely nowhere his draft year and shot up the draft charts, risky pick.

I'd like to bring Ginning over from Sweden and see what he can do in the AHL. I still believe there's potential for a solid defensive defenseman with leadership abilities. A good 3rd pairing guy. He's a 21 year old defenseman, been playing against men in the SHL since 2016-17 and captained Sweden's world junior team. When the Flyers drafted him I figured he needed around 5 years of development before taking a crack at the NHL.
- dubc55

Could he be worse than yandle lol.... I guess its possible but might be worth a shot

When was the last time an NHL team gave up 7 goals in consecutive games under 2 different head coaches?

That's what bad drafting looks like. The list is extensive. Rubstov, O'Brien and Morin were terrible picks the day they were made. Even Sanheim was a bit of a stretch, he came out of absolutely nowhere his draft year and shot up the draft charts, risky pick.

I'd like to bring Ginning over from Sweden and see what he can do in the AHL. I still believe there's potential for a solid defensive defenseman with leadership abilities. A good 3rd pairing guy. He's a 21 year old defenseman, been playing against men in the SHL since 2016-17 and captained Sweden's world junior team. When the Flyers drafted him I figured he needed around 5 years of development before taking a crack at the NHL.
- dubc55

There is no doubt that if the Flyers as an organization agree to a big reset and want to take advantage of what is said to be a deep draft in 2022, they have to hit on a very high % of their picks, especially 1st rounders. This is the basis to any successful rebuild.

I have no doubt that Provorov plays with passion. He's just messed up right now. No clue what's wrong with Couturier. JVR is just in a deep scoring funk and it seems as he gets older, his slumps lengthen and get worse.
- MJL

At the end of the day, a lot of it is confidence as we've seen with the goalies (who now appear to be losing it). With Provy, I think he's lost confidence a bit as you would do in this funk. It spreads and IMO coaches need to be able to help right the ship. I believe the team lost confidence in the coaching staff.

Someone posted an old Hitch comment saying a coach's job is to keep the team on the road and out of the ditch. It's true..AV is gonzo because he couldn't do this.

Further, while we ask why Provy needs a good partner to stay on the rails, a true top pair D allows him to not try to do too much and then eventually get that confidence back.

First if the Flyers do decide to aggressively sell at the deadline, they will be able to recoup multiple high picks (rounds 1-3) and hopefully a few prospects. This would also mean they are going to finish in the bottom 1/3 of the league and thus be a lottery team. So my hope is they will have a top 10 pick, maybe top 5 depending on how hard they tank, and hopefully 2 other 1st round picks. With that I hope they land 3 players that can will be ready to play next season. Add in the vets already on the team, a few younger players from the AHL and a couple of smart signings and you have the basis for a fresh start next season. On top of that will be who is coaching the team. I like Mike Yeo, he is no worse than say Rick Tocchet based on his career so far so it will be interesting to see how he does this year. However if we truly want Barry Trotz's defensive system, he has an assistant coach in Lane Lambert that might be a nice choice. Also I am starting to hear rumblings that Bruce Cassidy might be wearing out his welcome in Boston and if so he would be an excellent candidate also. So picking the right coach to commit to is another important step this off season.
- jd250

Draft 3 picks that will play next year? good luck with that

At the end of the day, a lot of it is confidence as we've seen with the goalies (who now appear to be losing it). With Provy, I think he's lost confidence a bit as you would do in this funk. It spreads and IMO coaches need to be able to help right the ship. I believe the team lost confidence in the coaching staff.

Someone posted an old Hitch comment saying a coach's job is to keep the team on the road and out of the ditch. It's true..AV is gonzo because he couldn't do this.

Further, while we ask why Provy needs a good partner to stay on the rails, a true top pair D allows him to not try to do too much and then eventually get that confidence back.
- Hextall271

Well we can just wait for Ellis another two months lol

Agreed on Provys passion but he seems to be a guy that is mentally fragile. His errors compound and he’s inconsistent. When he’s on he’s a great Dman but when things are going bad he does nothing to steady the ship.
- ClaudeFather

I think we need to accept that Provey is not going to be that top pairing defenseman we had hoped he would become. He is a good complimentary piece, but is never going to be a lynchpin, which is why getting Ellis healthy and playing consistently is a must for the Flyers moving forward, especially next year and beyond that.

That's what bad drafting looks like. The list is extensive. Rubstov, O'Brien and Morin were terrible picks the day they were made. Even Sanheim was a bit of a stretch, he came out of absolutely nowhere his draft year and shot up the draft charts, risky pick.

I'd like to bring Ginning over from Sweden and see what he can do in the AHL. I still believe there's potential for a solid defensive defenseman with leadership abilities. A good 3rd pairing guy. He's a 21 year old defenseman, been playing against men in the SHL since 2016-17 and captained Sweden's world junior team. When the Flyers drafted him I figured he needed around 5 years of development before taking a crack at the NHL.
- dubc55

Bad drafting or bad player development? Which ever it is the Flyers need to fix it.

There is no doubt that if the Flyers as an organization agree to a big reset and want to take advantage of what is said to be a deep draft in 2022, they have to hit on a very high % of their picks, especially 1st rounders. This is the basis to any successful rebuild.
- jd250

I don't think that CF will be gone any time soon, but I wonder if it's truly who we want making those crucial draft picks (or his selected team of scouts)? Outside analysists have at times stated that we need outside blood, which CF is I guess, but I'd look for a good track record too (Darche from TB?)

Draft 3 picks that will play next year? good luck with that
- wcorvette

When I say play, I mean be able to play at the NHL level, not necessarily lighting it up in their rookie seasons. Though the higher you draft the more you should expect that player to make an impact. Farabee played this first season, so did Provorov, so its not out of the realm of possibility.

Well we can just wait for Ellis another two months lol
- ClaudeFather

Yeah. Or maybe he'll never be healthy. It's not the only reason, but it hasn't helped that we haven't had a top pair dman all year. Most teams that lose their best D don't just carry on their merry way.

When was the last time an NHL team gave up 7 goals in consecutive games under 2 different head coaches?
- cdearth23

If Tocchet is hired today we could go for the record tomorrow night.
3 coaches in 3 straight games to give up 7!

I don't think that CF will be gone any time soon, but I wonder if it's truly who we want making those crucial draft picks (or his selected team of scouts)? Outside analysists have at times stated that we need outside blood, which CF is I guess, but I'd look for a good track record too (Darche from TB?)
- Hextall271

He may not be gone soon, but I’m sure he’s on notice.

There is no doubt that if the Flyers as an organization agree to a big reset and want to take advantage of what is said to be a deep draft in 2022, they have to hit on a very high % of their picks, especially 1st rounders. This is the basis to any successful rebuild.
- jd250

For sure. It killed me to watch them select Rubstov and O'Brien. They were bad picks. Head scratchers. You can't blow first round picks like that.

Provy played well and now is playing like the rest of the team. They wore Braun out already, he did great playing top pair but way to long. The 3rd pair just puts an anchor on the rest of the D.

you want to show you are serious, make the right team decision, sit Yandle. Now, York in covid protocol, he is not thriving in the A, for that matter the Phantoms are a wreck. It is just to easy to leave Yandle in there.

The idea that we can't ice a better 3rd pair from our prospects is very telling. Not helping is the long lay offs the Phantoms have between games.


Bill, can we assume Allison will play for the Phantoms Friday? How is Morin doing. Comparing Morin of last year to Yandle, I would take Morin

I really have no issue with the signing of yandle, I have an issue with no plan to have someone to put in for him. All the Ghost talk (I loved Ghost) but 4.5 mil had to go.

I don't think that CF will be gone any time soon, but I wonder if it's truly who we want making those crucial draft picks (or his selected team of scouts)? Outside analysists have at times stated that we need outside blood, which CF is I guess, but I'd look for a good track record too (Darche from TB?)
- Hextall271

But look at his drafting record, both here and in Minnesota, its really not bad. York is going to be playing in the NHL for a long time, he was a good pick. Tyson Foerster is hurt but I think he will be playing for the Flyers next season. Toumaala has the speed and skillset needed in the modern game, so we will see how he develops. Even later round picks are showing promise like Wisdom for example. Also the Wild are a top team in the league right now and that is mainly due to the drafting of Fletcher.

Bad drafting or bad player development? Which ever it is the Flyers need to fix it.
- landros 2

It's looking like a bit of both. But they were pretty bad picks from the get go.

For sure. It killed me to watch them select Rubstov and O'Brien. They were bad picks. Head scratchers. You can't blow first round picks like that.
- dubc55

Reaches in the first round that didn’t do anything to warrant it. Playing in lesser leagues too.

When I say play, I mean be able to play at the NHL level, not necessarily lighting it up in their rookie seasons. Though the higher you draft the more you should expect that player to make an impact. Farabee played this first season, so did Provorov, so its not out of the realm of possibility.
- jd250

Tought Farabee went back to school, agree it is not but it is a long shot for 1, let alone 3.

I don't think that CF will be gone any time soon, but I wonder if it's truly who we want making those crucial draft picks (or his selected team of scouts)? Outside analysists have at times stated that we need outside blood, which CF is I guess, but I'd look for a good track record too (Darche from TB?)
- Hextall271

If we do go scorched earth, I don't want Fletcher anywhere near the Flyers. No thanks.

At the end of the day, a lot of it is confidence as we've seen with the goalies (who now appear to be losing it). With Provy, I think he's lost confidence a bit as you would do in this funk. It spreads and IMO coaches need to be able to help right the ship. I believe the team lost confidence in the coaching staff.

Someone posted an old Hitch comment saying a coach's job is to keep the team on the road and out of the ditch. It's true..AV is gonzo because he couldn't do this.

Further, while we ask why Provy needs a good partner to stay on the rails, a true top pair D allows him to not try to do too much and then eventually get that confidence back.
- Hextall271

You’re right AV is gone because of that….so is DH, CB, Gordon, PL

Hmm maybe it’s the players who are the oroblem 🤔

If we do go scorched earth, I don't want Fletcher anywhere near the Flyers. No thanks.
- dubc55

It's a legitimate discussion. As much as many didn't like our offseason moves, CF hasn't completely left the cupboards bare thank God. I think that he really wanted to bring in the right vets to support the young core understand that if the core young players stagnate in development or regress wildly (see hart) then the team is toast and into a 3 year rebuild which is not what ownership wanted. It's gone pear shaped obviously due to injuries etc.

Prov is in a funk - right now?

Just how long is - right now?

Does - right now - mean longer than a month, 3 months or a year?

I can tell you the guy has not played well in a long while. I mean he has not played at the level he was at in 2020 since at least mid year last year. He is simply not the same player. He is now a guy that should be playing 20 minutes and on the 2nd pair. Exasperating the prob is the play of ex selke.

You can spend all day talking about Jake and Cam if you want. Cam is on a 32 goal pace and doing a decent job on the pk and Jake is piling up the assists. Who is surprised by that? People think Cam is not playing well then great I suppose he will increase his 32 goal pace coming up. That’s what we need. Risto has been ok. I agree they gave up too much for him and I would have preferred to go all in on a stud number 1 dman, but none of the subtractions or new additions are relevant until you fix 9 and 14.

We all agree Yandle is a mess in his end right now. An absolute dumpster fire, but so is our supposed number 1 dman. He has been for a hyll of a lot longer than - right now..

W all that said, at least our interim coach actually talked about puck possession. That’s at least a step in the right direction.

For sure. It killed me to watch them select Rubstov and O'Brien. They were bad picks. Head scratchers. You can't blow first round picks like that.
- dubc55

Yes, I'm a fan of O'Brien (maybe my local Boston bias is kicking in here I admit) but to spend a top 20 1st round pick on a project when there were players on that board available that could be helping you right now (hello K'Andre Miller!) was not the right move. Hextall had this thing about himself in regards to drafting, and maybe other areas too, where he thought he was the smartest guy in the room, and I don't think it served him very well.

I think we need to accept that Provey is not going to be that top pairing defenseman we had hoped he would become. He is a good complimentary piece, but is never going to be a lynchpin, which is why getting Ellis healthy and playing consistently is a must for the Flyers moving forward, especially next year and beyond that.
- jd250

If they can manage to draft a true #1 then Provy can be part of the solution as a really good #2.

If not, and they continue to have to spend money/assets on veteran/declining dmen, the team is never gonna be competitive. Ellis is good but he's not going to be healthy for long. Risto is gonna be way too expensive for what he brings. Sanheim seems to have hit a hard ceiling to his career and he's no longer value against the cap. York isn't #1 caliber.

IMO, all their struggles have stemmed from the back-end. Their de facto #1 guy is holding them back in transition. They need somebody who is dominant in that respect or the forwards will always be at a disadvantage.