Not to mention how their rebuild occurred. Wasn’t just draft and wait. They moved pieces and rework most of their roster. Targeted certain players in their prime and signed them to build around.
- Peter Richards

Thing is though, they committed to a process that could have taken several more years. They got lucky with how short the process turned out to be - they couldn't have know that player traded twice during his ELC would end up winning the Norris so soon.

They got rid off a lot of players who were pretty good, but maybe not stars. Right after a period of considerable success. They were able to do it because MSG will always sell out unless they pull a Buffalo, and because their franchise is the most valuable in the hockey world.

Not to mention how their rebuild occurred. Wasn’t just draft and wait. They moved pieces and rework most of their roster. Targeted certain players in their prime and signed them to build around.
- Peter Richards

Rangers may have called it a rebuild. But right now, I think they only have one roster players over the age of 24 that the team drafted. It isn’t a built-thru-the-draft kind of rebuild looking at the core impact players as of right now. You can retool and rebuild at once, and it looks like that because they still have the draft picks.

How about 4 consecutive 40 pt seasons. Not all that easy in today’s NHL for a dman. Ask Provy how tough it is since he only has 1.
- Joe Nardone

Getting heavy ice time both at 5 on 5 and on the PP on a bad team. He's not the kind of player you want in that role. Which he has to be in to duplicate that.

Rebuild took just over 2 seasons and one of those seasons was covid shortened season. Funny thing is that during those 2 yrs of rebuild their record was almost as good as Flyers
- hfc355

No, it took way longer than two seasons.

They had to raise their bid to beat out Isles...Columbus could offer 8 yrs but wasnt signing there. At least they recognized that he was a difference maker worth investing large $$ in unlike us with Hayes . I clearly remember lots of folks laughing at Rags on this site when they committed those $$ to him.
- hfc355

Again, it was reported on many sources that the Rangers did not make the highest bid, nor did they outbid the Isles and Columbus. Panarin chose the Rangers because he wanted to play there.

Meaning he was given complete freedom of choice between a full blown total rebuild and a competitive rebuild and he chose the latter?

Honestly, I doubt it. How many businesses do you know that give a manager of one division, (which is part of their bottom line), the freedom to run that division as they choose without any financial implications?
- PT21

You doubt but he made in infinitely clear in numerous interviews that he wanted to remain competitive while drafting and developing. It's why he brought in players like Gudas and Filppula.

Thing is though, they committed to a process that could have taken several more years. They got lucky with how short the process turned out to be - they couldn't have know that player traded twice during his ELC would end up winning the Norris so soon.

.
- PT21

Again, even after yesterday correcting you on this, you still have it wrong. Fox was traded by both Calgary and Carolina because he would not sign there. He signed his ELC with the Rangers.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/adam-fox

The next big laugh is going to be when they hire Rick Tocchet as the next coach. Lead pipe lock.
- StepfordSam

That's when you know Fletcher is not calling the shots!

You doubt but he made in infinitely clear in numerous interviews that he wanted to remain competitive while drafting and developing. It's why he brought in players like Gudas and Filppula.
- MJL

Whoa ... look out .. Gudas and Filppula were really going to move that needle!

Hockey "needed" or money "needed"? Why is what you suggest "needed" for Comcast?

I am really suggesting what you yourself essentially agreed with yesterday. Comcast is not interested in winning the cup unless that move at least preserves their profit margin (or increases it, of course). They should hardly be blamed for that. They are a publicly traded company and they cannot end up with even minor losses if they can avoid it.

The logic for a full-on rebuild as a path to cup/contention etc is so overwhelming that essentially all teams that can (economically) are going that route. One by one, the dominoes have fallen in the past 20 years. Habs were like us till this year. The specific Gorton hiring, the high LTIR exception not being used, the non-firing of Ducharme, etc suggests to me they will go that route too.

The reason that Comcast is not going that route themselves is because the local Flyers market and the nature of our fanbase does not make that a viable option. Their profits will fall by a lot. And imo, that is why they will not hire a guy like Yzerman/Shanahan. Yzerman/Shanahan will likely ask for autonomy to do a full rebuild. That is not just profitable for Comcast.

There are only 2 ways out:
1. Fans start to support a full rebuild and stay loyal during it. Very unlikely here.
2. Their carefully crafted plan for staying competitive blows up in their face and they are shackled for the near future and have no choice but to be bottom dwellers.

Yesterday's game gave me some hope for the 2nd outcome. That looked like a whupped club that knows at heart that they are not good enough. If I were you, I would stop blaming Comcast/Scott etc and hire someone to Tonya Harding Ellis' knee.
- PT21

you guys are getting to the point where im actually going to start pulling for the flyers to prevent number 2 from happening.

but this is basically how i see your two possible paths out as well for a "full scale" rebuild

Whoa ... look out .. Gudas and Filppula were really going to move that needle!
- jd250

They weren't added to move the needle. Did you even read the post or what the context was? Obviously not.


I wish we had Gudas over Ristolainen. Gudas is the better player.

You doubt but he made in infinitely clear in numerous interviews that he wanted to remain competitive while drafting and developing. It's why he brought in players like Gudas and Filppula.
- MJL

What the manager says publicly is rarely what the manager will do privately if s/he is the CEO. Iotw, those statements may be the "party line."

You doubt but he made in infinitely clear in numerous interviews that he wanted to remain competitive while drafting and developing. It's why he brought in players like Gudas and Filppula.
- MJL

Its also why this team is where it is, and the cupboards bare

RR can win board battles, take the puck from players. You know, regular defensemen stuff. I dont see Travis doing any of that
- bradster

Exactly! And ready for this, despite all of Sanheim's mobility, Risto is a better offensive player with a much harder and more accurate shot.

Again, it was reported on many sources that the Rangers did not make the highest bid, nor did they outbid the Isles and Columbus. Panarin chose the Rangers because he wanted to play there.
- MJL

they made some major strokes of smart thinking/foresight and i do give them credit for being blunt about taking the plunge, but there is no way there wasnt some good fortune involved. two major pieces virtually picking them as the belle of the ball will go a long way towards expediting however someone wants to label a process.

for all of these teams that make it, its always some combination of genius, luck, resources and health.

you guys are getting to the point where im actually going to start pulling for the flyers to prevent number 2 from happening.

but this is basically how i see your two possible paths out as well for a "full scale" rebuild
- stayinthefnnet

Anyone else feeling the irony of this being labeled number 2 after the dog incident at center ice and poor play of late?

What the manager says publicly is rarely what the manager will do privately if s/he is the CEO. Iotw, those statements may be the "party line."
- PT21

That's speculation. The evidence I have are his direct statements and his actions as the GM. What do you have?

Again, even after yesterday correcting you on this, you still have it wrong. Fox was traded by both Calgary and Carolina because he would not sign there. He signed his ELC with the Rangers.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/adam-fox
- MJL

why wouldn't the rangers let him become a free agent, then just sign him if they were the only team he wanted to play for?

Getting heavy ice time both at 5 on 5 and on the PP on a bad team. He's not the kind of player you want in that role. Which he has to be in to duplicate that.
- MJL

Are you referring to Provy or Risto getting heavy ice time on a bad team?

Provy has had plenty of ice time and had more than enough of an opp to play the pp and yet never produced at Ristos level. He had outstanding goal years, but never came close to the overall production Risto had.

If Risto is so one dimensional and Provy is a lower number 1 dman then why can he not produce offensively like Risto did in years past?

Is prob say Prov should be the better dman, but right now that’s kinda up in the air.

I can tell you Risto has a better shot. Is better at keeping the puck in the zone and making a move. Provy better in transition, but I just don’t see that Provy is that much better offensively than Risto. If he is then when will he actually show it?

4 yrs at 40 pts is not that easy and you gotta have some semblance of ability to put up those numbers. The guy does have some ability.

Provys value on the pp was his quality wrister and JVR tipping picks. Well that has not worked in forever so it’s prob time to let Prov ride the pine on the pp and let Risto and Sanheim play the second d unit or better yet let Sanheim play on pp1. Either way Prov should not see the number 1 pp unit for while. It’s the def of insanity…

Either way I’m not seeing that Prov is a better all around dman that Risto right now. That guy is just flat out not producing.

they made some major strokes of smart thinking/foresight and i do give them credit for being blunt about taking the plunge, but there is no way there wasnt some good fortune involved. two major pieces virtually picking them as the belle of the ball will go a long way towards expediting however someone wants to label a process.

for all of these teams that make it, its always some combination of genius, luck, resources and health.
- stayinthefnnet

Well said. One thing I have learned over time, is that the GM who remains patient and makes the right moves. Will always trump the GM who wants to make moves and just finds the best moves he can at the time. The latter is what Fletcher did. The former, is what quality GM's do. A big part of it is though management has to give the guy a chance and remain patient. Flyers management failed miserably in that regard.

Anyone else feeling the irony of this being labeled number 2 after the dog incident at center ice and poor play of late?
- NC Flyers Fan

ha!

very well played.

Again, even after yesterday correcting you on this, you still have it wrong. Fox was traded by both Calgary and Carolina because he would not sign there. He signed his ELC with the Rangers.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/adam-fox
- MJL

Fine, but the larger point was that his meteoric rise was unforeseeable. He was drafted in the 3rd round, and for all his unwilingness to sign here and there, the price of the trades that brought him anywhere was not that high.

Exactly! And ready for this, despite all of Sanheim's mobility, Risto is a better offensive player with a much harder and more accurate shot.
- jd250

I actually think Sanheim has been better at taking initiative offensively. I’d stick him w Braun as your second unit and let Sanheim just float around out there. That’s what he does best.

Well said. One thing I have learned over time, is that the GM who remains patient and makes the right moves. Will always trump the GM who wants to make moves and just finds the best moves he can at the time. The latter is what Fletcher did. The former, is what quality GM's do. A big part of it is though management has to give the guy a chance and remain patient. Flyers management failed miserably in that regard.
- MJL

How another the GM that does nothing?

Are you referring to Provy or Risto getting heavy ice time on a bad team?

Provy has had plenty of ice time and had more than enough of an opp to play the pp and yet never produced at Ristos level. He had outstanding goal years, but never came close to the overall production Risto had.

If Risto is so one dimensional and Provy is a lower number 1 dman then why can he not produce offensively like Risto did in years past?

Is prob say Prov should be the better dman, but right now that’s kinda up in the air.

I can tell you Risto has a better shot. Is better at keeping the puck in the zone and making a move. Provy better in transition, but I just don’t see that Provy is that much better offensively than Risto. If he is then when will he actually show it?

4 yrs at 40 pts is not that easy and you gotta have some semblance of ability to put up those numbers. The guy does have some ability.

Provys value on the pp was his quality wrister and JVR tipping picks. Well that has not worked in forever so it’s prob time to let Prov ride the pine on the pp and let Risto and Sanheim play the second d unit or better yet let Sanheim play on pp1. Either way Prov should not see the number 1 pp unit for while. It’s the def of insanity…

Either way I’m not seeing that Prov is a better all around dman that Risto right now. That guy is just flat out not producing.
- Joe Nardone

Provorov has never been a good point producer on the PP and really in my opinion, shouldn't be on the top PP unit. Provorov has actually led the NHL in goals for defenseman one season. Ristolainen isn't close to Provorov. Provorov is a decent #1 or a strong #2 NHL defenseman. Ristolainen is a mediocre 2nd pair defenseman.