That's speculation. The evidence I have are his direct statements and his actions as the GM. What do you have?
- MJL

Merely a brain, dear sir, which is not a stranger to common sense and corporate experience.

Well said. One thing I have learned over time, is that the GM who remains patient and makes the right moves. Will always trump the GM who wants to make moves and just finds the best moves he can at the time. The latter is what Fletcher did. The former, is what quality GM's do.
- MJL

yeah. Im not saying some arent better at the job than others. its obviously not ALL luck. I know we have debated this in relation to tampa a few times.

but it usually requires a good GM to take that luck and push it over the top. Rags got lucky with panarin the same way the pens got lucky with crosby. sure, for different reasons but its still not something someone can stand on the podium and bask in earning. its the moves after that (what the pens have done for both better and worse depending on year, what the rangers appear to be doing with the rest of their roster) that separates teams from the edmontons and buffalos.

As far as patience goes, we will never know exactly what goes on behind closed doors but its hard to tell where exactly the factors of the GM's autonomy and ownership/market forces intersect or diverge.

This rebuild that the Rangers have taken on has overall taken more than a few seasons. You'll look at one team and use that as confirmation of what you want to do and then use one team to say, see something can't be done. Just another in a long line of poorly thought out comments. Just like you thought Fletcher changed the culture and rebuilt the team in one off season. I'm not sure how many interactions between you and I it's going to take. Where you've been wrong most of the time and I've been right most of the time. Getting a player like Panarin and Fox is not likely repeatable. Hextall had the right approach.
- MJL

Yup .. I'm wrong and you're right ... but wait .. HEXTALL WAS FIRED!! So do you want to rethink your position? If he was at all successful in his approach he would still be here! What evidence do you have that "Hextall's" approach actually works? What team has taken his exact approach and been successful? I never said Fletcher or anyone could rebuild the team in 1 season, never! I stated many times this was a STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, and the next step was to evaluate the team with these changes and determine what to do next. Oh, but these repeated posts don't support your not very well thought out argument, so we will just ignore them and say I said something totally different. Just typical MJL!

Fine, but the larger point was that his meteoric rise was unforeseeable. He was drafted in the 3rd round, and for all his unwilingness to sign here and there, the price of the trades that brought him anywhere was not that high.
- PT21

I agree which is why I've been telling people like JD250 that the odds of repeating that scenario is very low. Same with the Panarin situation. Yet he claims that those players are out there and you just have to find them. The price wouldn't be high because they had no leverage. The Rangers were extremely lucky there.

Merely a brain, dear sir, which is not a stranger to common sense and corporate experience.
- PT21

So you've got nothing.

you guys are getting to the point where im actually going to start pulling for the flyers to prevent number 2 from happening.

but this is basically how i see your two possible paths out as well for a "full scale" rebuild
- stayinthefnnet

Imo, there is really only 1 path. That is #2.

Out of curiosity, as someone who was born and brought up in the epicenter of Flyers fandom, how likely would you really say # 1 is?

can we draft this guys. Lets move up to get him if we need to

http://www.mynhldraft.com...profiles/Juraj-Slafkovsky

Yup .. I'm wrong and you're right ... but wait .. HEXTALL WAS FIRED!! So do you want to rethink your position? If he was at all successful in his approach he would still be here! What evidence do you have that "Hextall's" approach actually works? What team has taken his exact approach and been successful? I never said Fletcher or anyone could rebuild the team in 1 season, never! I stated many times this was a STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, and the next step was to evaluate the team with these changes and determine what to do next. Oh, but these repeated posts don't support your not very well thought out argument, so we will just ignore them and say I said something totally different. Just typical MJL!
- jd250

LOL. Hextall was fired and where is the team at? In a worse position. The firing was a huge blunder. You said Vigneault was not the problem. VIGNEAULT WAS FIRED! I need to provide evidence that drafting and developing players in the NHL works?
You don't even know what you post. All off season, Fletcher made all the right moves. Changed the culture and added the shoot first player, the D man who checks all the boxes. Now you're calling for more of the same. Will it ever sink in?

I agree which is why I've been telling people like JD250 that the odds of repeating that scenario is very low. Same with the Panarin situation. Yet he claims that those players are out there and you just have to find them. The price wouldn't be high because they had no leverage. The Rangers were extremely lucky there.
- MJL

You keep harping on Panarin and Fox like they are the two bet players on the planet and the Rangers have nothing else!!! First of all, there is nothing lucky about signing a free agent! If the Flyers had the cap space and wanted Panarin, they could have outbid the Rangers and Panarin would be playing here, so WTF are you talking about?? The Flyers did not have the cap space BECAUSE they decided to try a hybrid approach, and this is one of the reasons it DOESN'T WORK! The Rangers had the cap space because they were willing to reset and get rid of several high priced veterans, exactly what the Flyers must do now!

Imo, there is really only 1 path. That is #2.

Out of curiosity, as someone who was born and brought up in the epicenter of Flyers fandom, how likely would you really say # 1 is?
- PT21

For as much as Ive always hated the average joe blow rocking a dan carbomb jersey in xfinity, ive always had to give the flyers masses credit for overall loyalty. (i understand you are viewing this loyalty as their own noose to an extent, but that is not the point)

that being said, it goes back to something that you and tomahawk were touching on the other day. I really make no assumption about anyone on here and definitely mean no offense, but a lot of these staunch loyalists are for the lack of a better phrase getting old. I think that will be a shift that is seen through most sports as the years advance. Young people and the next generations will come out for winners. I just dont see that next generation of hand me down, bleed your team colors passion really taking hold in large numbers whereas before it used to be a default setting.

I'm not that old and I remember basing my entire summer existence around the phillies schedule as a kid, sitting with a notebook and jotting things down and stacking up my baseball cards and whatnot. Not to sound too much as yelling at clouds here, but now kids will just go play fortnite, follow teams on social media just enough to converse about it, and show up in droves when teams are good and its an event. So who knows.

I agree which is why I've been telling people like JD250 that the odds of repeating that scenario is very low. Same with the Panarin situation. Yet he claims that those players are out there and you just have to find them. The price wouldn't be high because they had no leverage. The Rangers were extremely lucky there.
- MJL

No doubt luck was involved. But they deserve credit for systematically gutting a team that had done pretty well.

Of course, that gutting was economically feasible for them as I was arguing earlier.The equivalent for us would have been trading Giroux, Voracek, and several others years ago.

So yeah, they got lucky with the roll of the die. But they deserve credit for rolling it in the first place. We have never rolled the die.

Who is hockey’s Sam Hinkie? That’s who they need

Forget building. They need a tear down expert

LOL. Hextall was fired and where is the team at? In a worse position. The firing was a huge blunder. You said Vigneault was not the problem. VIGNEAULT WAS FIRED! I need to provide evidence that drafting and developing players in the NHL works?
You don't even know what you post. All off season, Fletcher made all the right moves. Changed the culture and added the shoot first player, the D man who checks all the boxes. Now you're calling for more of the same. Will it ever sink in?
- MJL

Again, Hextall had 5 drafts and what do we have to show for it?? Mediocre at best talent, no top end players ... NONE!

I am calling on the team to do a major reset, trade their veteran players and build through the draft! I am not calling for more of the same, not even close. You are obviously THICK! But to be clear, you have to be all in on a reset and most importantly, you CAN"T MISS on top picks like Hextall did time and again!

This team is broken. Its a carryover from last season. Changing out a a few pieces, who IMO, were the most vocal against the previous coach, didn't seem to change much.....especially now since that coach is gone.

The players confidence in themselves and each other is irrevocably lost. This group simply can not play together and it needs to be blown up and started over from scratch.

This isn't on Mike Yeo, what the hell can he do?


A fire sale is the only solution. Including the incompetent GM.
- MBFlyerfan

Armchair GM's are at it again 😉

No doubt luck was involved. But they deserve credit for systematically gutting a team that had done pretty well.

Of course, that gutting was economically feasible for them as I was arguing earlier.The equivalent for us would have been trading Giroux, Voracek, and several others years ago.

So yeah, they got lucky with the roll of the die. But they deserve credit for rolling it in the first place. We have never rolled the die.
- PT21

Exacty!!

For as much as Ive always hated the average joe blow rocking a dan carbomb jersey in xfinity, ive always had to give the flyers masses credit for overall loyalty. (i understand you are viewing this loyalty as their own noose to an extent, but that is not the point)

that being said, it goes back to something that you and tomahawk were touching on the other day. I really make no assumption about anyone on here and definitely mean no offense, but a lot of these staunch loyalists are for the lack of a better phrase getting old. I think that will be a shift that is seen through most sports as the years advance. Young people and the next generations will come out for winners. I just dont see that next generation of hand me down, bleed your team colors passion really taking hold in large numbers whereas before it used to be a default setting.

I'm not that old and I remember basing my entire summer existence around the phillies schedule as a kid, sitting with a notebook and jotting things down and stacking up my baseball cards and whatnot. Not to sound too much as yelling at clouds here, but now kids will just go play fortnite, follow teams on social media just enough to converse about it, and show up in droves when teams are good and its an event. So who knows.
- stayinthefnnet

Actually, that loyalty of fans could be an asset. If they stay loyal during an rebuild that could get arduous.

Some will, but as Dave Scott well knows, thats not enough and a large chunk of the revenue already comes from millennials. Those would not (see Sixers).

The old guard would have to be disloyal during competitive years and loyal during rebuild years. Meaning they have to be loyal to the long run process and disloyal to short term fixes.

That's asking a lot from fans anywhere.

Who is hockey’s Sam Hinkie? That’s who they need

Forget building. They need a tear down expert
- Just5

Actually, that loyalty of fans could be an asset. If they stay loyal during an rebuild that could get arduous.

Some will, but as Dave Scott well knows, thats not enough and a large chunk of the revenue already comes from millennials. Those would not (see Sixers).

The old guard would have to be disloyal during competitive years and loyal during rebuild years. Meaning they have to be loyal to the long run process and disloyal to short term fixes.

That's asking a lot from fans anywhere.
- PT21

yeah thats a lot of yo-yoing.

Success has many fathers; failure is an orphan.

yeah thats a lot of yo-yoing.
- stayinthefnnet

Well, its not that sophisticated. Just don't fall for the short term fixes.

But on a lighter vein, I would have thought you would adore Carbomb. That buffoon singlehandedly (literally, with his right paw) turned a playoff series around 12 years ago in your favor.

Well, its not that sophisticated. Just don't fall for the short term fixes.

But on a lighter vein, I would have thought you would adore Carbomb. That buffoon singlehandedly (literally, with his right paw) turned a playoff series around 12 years ago in your favor.
- PT21

oh yeah in an ironic sense the guys a legend for that.

Its hard as a fan to not. I understand the big picture, but theres something inherently unnatural about actually rooting for losses.

Would I have been thrilled with the big picture plan as a flyers fan when they brought in ellis? You can argue it hurts the goal of the ultimate greater picture. in the short term, it would be hard to not be at least a little excited seeing a good player youve liked for a while brought in at a position of need for peanuts.

its tough. I like the cap. I know some dont. I dont blame it all on the cap, but a lot of sports now is not only prolonged sucking but just luck of the draw as to when you suck and who is coming out. Thankfully hockey is different than say basketball where one single player defines everything, but still.

For as much as Ive always hated the average joe blow rocking a dan carbomb jersey in xfinity, ive always had to give the flyers masses credit for overall loyalty. (i understand you are viewing this loyalty as their own noose to an extent, but that is not the point)

that being said, it goes back to something that you and tomahawk were touching on the other day. I really make no assumption about anyone on here and definitely mean no offense, but a lot of these staunch loyalists are for the lack of a better phrase getting old. I think that will be a shift that is seen through most sports as the years advance. Young people and the next generations will come out for winners. I just dont see that next generation of hand me down, bleed your team colors passion really taking hold in large numbers whereas before it used to be a default setting.

I'm not that old and I remember basing my entire summer existence around the phillies schedule as a kid, sitting with a notebook and jotting things down and stacking up my baseball cards and whatnot. Not to sound too much as yelling at clouds here, but now kids will just go play fortnite, follow teams on social media just enough to converse about it, and show up in droves when teams are good and its an event. So who knows.
- stayinthefnnet

Great points. I've stopped paying into the family STH plan because IMO my loyalty wasn't being rewarded. The family still has STH. Until the STH plans decrease, Comcast really doesn't care when it comes to creating a better team / system. Think about it, it's been at least 10 years of fielding bubble teams.

What I have noticed is this organization has been slow in adapting to changes and when they do try to copycat their are at least 2 years behind.

At this point there just too many issues with this team and organization and always blaming one player is not the issue. None of knows what goes on in the locker room.

They need to find a plan and stick to it.

Simply put when it comes to this team.
What is the process?

Happy Holidays!

Yup .. I'm wrong and you're right ... but wait .. HEXTALL WAS FIRED!! So do you want to rethink your position? If he was at all successful in his approach he would still be here! What evidence do you have that "Hextall's" approach actually works? What team has taken his exact approach and been successful? I never said Fletcher or anyone could rebuild the team in 1 season, never! I stated many times this was a STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, and the next step was to evaluate the team with these changes and determine what to do next. Oh, but these repeated posts don't support your not very well thought out argument, so we will just ignore them and say I said something totally different. Just typical MJL!
- jd250

Here’s the problem with hextall approach… we will never know because he was fired way to soon by a corporate fool. Hexy said it wasn’t go time. Who knows what moves he would’ve made when he was fired. Scott wanted hart up and hexy wouldn’t do it. I think it’s safe to safe hexy was right. At least in that case. I think hexy big mistake was not tearing it down from day 1. Could’ve gotten a lot for players at time like g coots summer etc… be that as it may fletch needs to go and so does Scott. Full rebuild. Coots should’ve never been signed long term and who knows if they can even trade him. The longer they wait and the longer these players play bad the harder to find a sucker to take them

Who is hockey’s Sam Hinkie? That’s who they need

Forget building. They need a tear down expert
- Just5

they should just turn to the internet since people seem to know best there

Great points. I've stopped paying into the family STH plan because IMO my loyalty wasn't being rewarded. The family still has STH. Until the STH plans decrease, Comcast really doesn't care when it comes to creating a better team / system. Think about it, it's been at least 10 years of fielding bubble teams.

What I have noticed is this organization has been slow in adapting to changes and when they do try to copycat their are at least 2 years behind.

At this point there just too many issues with this team and organization and always blaming one player is not the issue. None of knows what goes on in the locker room.

They need to find a plan and stick to it.

Simply put when it comes to this team.
What is the process?

Happy Holidays!
- phi1671

this isnt unique to the flyers by any stretch, but its absolutely ridiculous what it would cost say an average family of four to go catch a game. imagine plunking down 600 and change and going and sitting through last nights game.