Hmm, and just yesterday you were providing good (and correct) reasons why Comcast is constrained because of the nature of the market.
- PT21

Giving reasons why Comcast probably won't sanction a full rebuild is not the same as saying a full rebuild isn't needed.

Look at Detroit. Irrelevant bottom dwellers for years. Close to 100% attendance during these times before Covid. Will our fans stay as patient and support as long and as brutal a rebuild? Why do our fans get a pass?
- PT21

Holland was trying to win up until he was fired. They only bottomed out once Yzerman came back. Attendance was probably also boosted by the new building.

I doubt demand for the Flyers will be as durable as for an Original Six team with a recent dynasty, a bunch of HOF players and proximity to Canada.

But whatever their reasons were, they brought Yzerman in, who clearly understands what a 21st century hockey team should look like and how they should play. That is the move that the Flyers sorely need right now. Chuck Fletcher is not that guy.

It appears to me that Comcast and Dave Scott are the corporate equivalent of Giroux: doing their job well, and just being the most visible scapegoat for things that are frankly not part of their job description.
- PT21

I think all ownership situations have some inherent flaws. The Flyers' current situation has clearly been dysfunctional for some time. The team was dysfunctional under Snider as well.

They need to find a way to make the current situation work. If that's installing their own Shanahan/Shanaplan, then so be it. If that means a Dolan-esque purge, whatever. But Comcast + Dave Scott + Chuck Fletcher is clearly not a winning recipe. And the longer this goes on, the deeper the hole will be.

What does Ristolainen do well besides hitting? Nothing. He is a mediocre player. Sanheim is more mobile and can attack better. He's also cheaper and doesn't need to be extended. We also didn't trade a 1st, 2nd and a player for Sanheim. When all is said and done with both players being pretty much equal. Looking at all variables, Sanheim all the way.
- MJL

RR can win board battles, take the puck from players. You know, regular defensemen stuff. I dont see Travis doing any of that

What does Ristolainen do well besides hitting? Nothing. He is a mediocre player. Sanheim is more mobile and can attack better. He's also cheaper and doesn't need to be extended. We also didn't trade a 1st, 2nd and a player for Sanheim. When all is said and done with both players being pretty much equal. Looking at all variables, Sanheim all the way.
- MJL

How about 4 consecutive 40 pt seasons. Not all that easy in today’s NHL for a dman. Ask Provy how tough it is since he only has 1.

I’ll say again. I don’t care what anyone says, Ivan Provorov is top end talent. No he’s not being miscast because of the team he’s playing on. When a team isn’t winning, when you’re 24 and facing the other team’s absolute best talent every night. When D-partner isn’t remotely on your level. When you lose 3-0, all you’re going to see are the faults. Ivan Provorov looks pretty damn good to me next to Ellis or Niskanen and the team is both scoring and winning. Provorov has next to Justin Braun for his second season in a row and seeing time with Nick Seeler. Gee, why is this? Ellis was praised last summer for having a career high of 41 points at one point in a season. Weird because Provorov has the same career high and he did it when he was younger.
- SuperSchennBros

When things are going good he’s a good player, thanks for telling us everything we’ve already known. 2 years of bad play, 400 games in, he needs to be better regardless of partner.

How about 4 consecutive 40 pt seasons. Not all that easy in today’s NHL for a dman. Ask Provy how tough it is since he only has 1.
- Joe Nardone

He'll be lucky to score 20 points this season without any kind of regular PP role. If they traded for him because of those 40 point seasons then he should be on the PP instead of Yandle or Provorov.

He'll be lucky to score 20 points this season without any kind of regular PP role. If they traded for him because of those 40 point seasons then he should be on the PP instead of Yandle or Provorov.
- Feanor

He should be on the PP, what we are doing obviously isnt working.

So I would term what I think the Flyers will do as a retool, not a rebuild, but I do think they return to stockpiling draft picks. They have assets that can get them some picks. The money comes out to about 12M to spend on a top 4 d-man and top 6 winger this offseason. I think a lot of young guys within the Flyer’s system get their shot next season. I hope they pick a coach accordingly.

UFAs on expiring deals that could be available by this trade deadline: Giroux, Brassard, Thompson (Injured), Ristolainen, Braun, Yandle, Seeler, and Jones (They may not find takers for all. I would keep Braun and possibly Jones only if they are willing to re-sign for next season.)

UFAs with one year remaining to possibly trade in the offseason: van Riemsdyk and Sanheim (I would guess that they keep Sanheim because they won’t find a deal that is worth losing him for the year. Revisit at the 22-23 trade deadline.)

Other possible trade candidates: Konecny—AAV 5.5M/3 more yrs remaining (roster player trade but maybe can get a pick too)

Note that I am not happy about any of this, I only wanted wins. Also, I hate that this may be the way Giroux’s era goes out. I definitely don’t like any of this, but it is what I see. Hopefully, the players can change their fates.

This rebuild that the Rangers have taken on has overall taken more than a few seasons. You'll look at one team and use that as confirmation of what you want to do and then use one team to say, see something can't be done. Just another in a long line of poorly thought out comments. Just like you thought Fletcher changed the culture and rebuilt the team in one off season. I'm not sure how many interactions between you and I it's going to take. Where you've been wrong most of the time and I've been right most of the time. Getting a player like Panarin and Fox is not likely repeatable. Hextall had the right approach.
- MJL

Rebuild took just over 2 seasons and one of those seasons was covid shortened season. Funny thing is that during those 2 yrs of rebuild their record was almost as good as Flyers

The way the Flyers do things is just outdated and irrelevant. I don't know what type of candidates are out there, but they need a GM who can come to grips with the fact that you need to be pretty bad for a little bit before you can become really good again.

Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Drop 10th in a Row, Lose 3-0 in NJ; Phantoms Postponement
- bmeltzer

Is it possible that Ed Snider sold his soul to the Devil for those two Stanley Cups?

It would explain the team's lack of success since he died

The Rangers did not outbid everyone for Panarin. Both the Isles and Columbus reportedly offered more. They made some very good moves but they were fortunate with Panarin and Fox.
- MJL

They had to raise their bid to beat out Isles...Columbus could offer 8 yrs but wasnt signing there. At least they recognized that he was a difference maker worth investing large $$ in unlike us with Hayes . I clearly remember lots of folks laughing at Rags on this site when they committed those $$ to him.

Jake didn't want to be here anymore but the return could have been better. Unfortunately, these are the kind of deals you have to make when you sign contracts like the one Fletcher gave to Kevin Hayes.

I dont miss Ghost whatsoever.
- mochoson

I do. Yandle and Seeler are horrific at ES, and the PP is worse than ever. At least Ghost was able to be healthy scratched. KY is immune from getting a night off no matter how badly he plays.

The way the Flyers do things is just outdated and irrelevant. I don't know what type of candidates are out there, but they need a GM who can come to grips with the fact that you need to be pretty bad for a little bit before you can become really good again.
- Pelle31Forever

Jeff Gorton was the guy. 10 days too late. Seems like the Flyers way no foresight

Well, at least I know what Risto can do well .. what exactly does Sanheim do well??
- jd250

It's weird that Risto is -9 and Sanheim is +2 when they play together most of the time, and Risto is supposed to be the one who can do defense well.

At 5on5, Sanheim is the only healthy Flyers dman with a GF% over 50.

http://www.naturalstattri...ines=single&draftteam=ALL

Giving reasons why Comcast probably won't sanction a full rebuild is not the same as saying a full rebuild isn't needed

I think all ownership situations have some inherent flaws. The Flyers' current situation has clearly been dysfunctional for some time. The team was dysfunctional under Snider as well.

They need to find a way to make the current situation work. If that's installing their own Shanahan/Shanaplan, then so be it. If that means a Dolan-esque purge, whatever. But Comcast + Dave Scott + Chuck Fletcher is clearly not a winning recipe. And the longer this goes on, the deeper the hole will be.
- Tomahawk

Hockey "needed" or money "needed"? Why is what you suggest "needed" for Comcast?

I am really suggesting what you yourself essentially agreed with yesterday. Comcast is not interested in winning the cup unless that move at least preserves their profit margin (or increases it, of course). They should hardly be blamed for that. They are a publicly traded company and they cannot end up with even minor losses if they can avoid it.

The logic for a full-on rebuild as a path to cup/contention etc is so overwhelming that essentially all teams that can (economically) are going that route. One by one, the dominoes have fallen in the past 20 years. Habs were like us till this year. The specific Gorton hiring, the high LTIR exception not being used, the non-firing of Ducharme, etc suggests to me they will go that route too.

The reason that Comcast is not going that route themselves is because the local Flyers market and the nature of our fanbase does not make that a viable option. Their profits will fall by a lot. And imo, that is why they will not hire a guy like Yzerman/Shanahan. Yzerman/Shanahan will likely ask for autonomy to do a full rebuild. That is not just profitable for Comcast.

There are only 2 ways out:
1. Fans start to support a full rebuild and stay loyal during it. Very unlikely here.
2. Their carefully crafted plan for staying competitive blows up in their face and they are shackled for the near future and have no choice but to be bottom dwellers.

Yesterday's game gave me some hope for the 2nd outcome. That looked like a whupped club that knows at heart that they are not good enough. If I were you, I would stop blaming Comcast/Scott etc and hire someone to Tonya Harding Ellis' knee.

Fire Dave Scott.

Ghost has slowed down sharply. Just like Risto's analytics, the reversion to long run average is just a matter of time.
- PT21

Just wait til the west figures out his game and just plays the body.

I don't agree. Remaining competitive was Hextall's plan.
- MJL

Meaning he was given complete freedom of choice between a full blown total rebuild and a competitive rebuild and he chose the latter?

Honestly, I doubt it. How many businesses do you know that give a manager of one division, (which is part of their bottom line), the freedom to run that division as they choose without any financial implications?

Rebuild took just over 2 seasons and one of those seasons was covid shortened season. Funny thing is that during those 2 yrs of rebuild their record was almost as good as Flyers
- hfc355

Not to mention how their rebuild occurred. Wasn’t just draft and wait. They moved pieces and rework most of their roster. Targeted certain players in their prime and signed them to build around.

The way the Flyers do things is just outdated and irrelevant. I don't know what type of candidates are out there, but they need a GM who can come to grips with the fact that you need to be pretty bad for a little bit before you can become really good again.
- Pelle31Forever

Gorton?

Everyone complains about fletch. Watch it be Rutherford. Then we will see some amazing trades.

I do. Yandle and Seeler are horrific at ES, and the PP is worse than ever. At least Ghost was able to be healthy scratched. KY is immune from getting a night off no matter how badly he plays.
- Feanor

What. 20 games or so left then we shall see.

Just wait til the west figures out his game and just plays the body.
- Peter Richards

Do you think he will have 7 points in the next 24 games and go -15 like his replacement Keith "Iron Man" Yandle?

Do you think he will have 7 points in the next 24 games and go -15 like his replacement Keith "Iron Man" Yandle?
- Feanor

Didn’t expect much from yandle but surprised he is not doing better on the p p. And imo he was not ghosts replacement. Ellis was. Imo.

Ek: Korpisalo

Hart and Jones are not the issue here. Why would the Flyers be in on him when there are other much more pressing concerns?

Ek: Korpisalo

Hart and Jones are not the issue here. Why would the Flyers be in on him when there are other much more pressing concerns?
- Scoob

For clicks? That's all I got.